blksn8k2

Damn you Ford! I just mailed the payoff on the Sport Trac last weekend. While the SHO looks like a lot of fun I think I will wait for the 2011s to see what else they have up their sleeves... a Boss 302 would do nicely. :shades:

If you are referring to the Koni Challenge race at Daytona I hate to burst your bubble but that race was won this year by a BMW. Mustangs finished 2nd, 3rd and 5th. http://www.grand-am.com/koni/schedule/results.cfm

A couple of things to consider: NASCAR is owned and controlled by the France family. The France family also owns International Speedway Corporation which controls 13 tracks where 19 of the 36 races are run. They also own the MRN radio network. Personally, I despise the racing at Daytona and Talledega. These are the only two tracks where they run restrictor plates between the carburetor and intake manifold and yet these are the races that get the most publicity. It's not real racing. The cars do not have enough power to avoid trouble let alone pass each other without drafting help from another car. That means they run around in these huge packs waiting for someone to screw up sending them all spinning in circles and bouncing off the walls. And the "fans" eat that crap up. All it takes is enough nerve to hold the accelerator to the floor for 500 miles knowing you have about a 50% chance of getting in a massive wreck. Like I said, these are the races that get the most attention and have the largest TV audiences. Most people think this is what every NASCAR race is like. If you want to see a real race go to Bristol or Richmond.

Perhaps it's not what you're missing but what you have gained? Like a bigger butt? :shades:

I get the impression that a lot of people are confusing the past life of SVT with its curent role within Ford. Or perhaps they just want things to go back to the way they were. When John Coletti was in charge of SVT it was as much a marketing division for its products as it was an engineering arm. Today the marketing side no longer exists. The "market" is apparently different now. It seems that instead of selling a relatively inexpensive SVT badged performance version of an existing model they are now upgrading existing models with SVT engineering and charging a much higher premium to a more exclusive buyer.

While all of the manufacturers have purpose built engines for NASCAR the current Ford engine is the most closely related to a true production engine, all be it a nearly 40 year old design. Toyota had a NASCAR engine on display at the 2009 NAIAS. If it didn't say TOYOTA on the valve cover you would have thought it was a Ford. Same for the current Chevy and Dodge engines. I have not been following the engine rules that closely but I think it is a fairly accurate statement that all of the manufacturers have very similar engines because of the NASCAR engine rules. They are not only restricted to a certain displacement but they also have rules governing such things as valve placement angles. I don't know this for a fact and it is probably an over simplification but it seems that they took the best engine design at the time the rules were developed and said "copy this". That engine obviously was the Ford design. Back in 1987 Bill Elliott, using his brother Ernie's engines, qualified their T-bird at over 209 mph at Daytona and over 212 mph at Talledega. No one else was even close. The following year NASCAR mandated restrictor plates at those two tracks. While they said it was for safety reasons I think if you could find the real truth to the matter it was also done because the Elliots were stinking up the show. At the 1985 Winston 500 at Talledega Elliott lost two laps on the 2.66 mile track due to a leaking power steering hose and came back to take the lead 100 laps later without the help of a single caution flag. Cale Yarborough in another T-bird was leading most of that time and running laps at over 200 mph and Elliott pased him twice to win the race. Now that's domination.

I hate to admit it but one my sisters and her husband both own Camrys. This is her second and his first although he did own a Toyota Tacoma in the past. When his employer was still providing company cars they were all Fords. He had a Contour, Taurus and Fusion in that order. While he raved about the Fusion's handling he had sketchy reliability from the other two. When his company stopped providing a car he had the option to buy the Fusion. Obviously, he chose to buy a Camry instead. In the past I would have argued the merits of buying an American brand but I gave up on that years ago. While I still follow that path for my own purchases I also learned years ago that people, especially family members, tended to blame me whenever anything went wrong, regardless of how minor. Now days I simply ignore people who ask my opinion rather than suffer the abuse of "You and your damn Fords".

That's a bit of a stretch to suggest that the GM LS series of engines "accomplished so much in such a short period of time". The LS is an evolution of an engine design that has been in existence since 1955. Not exactly a clean sheet of paper when compared to the modular V8s.

One attribute that needs to be mentioned is that the F150 is just too big for many people who want/need a truck. I don't need a truck that is too wide to fit in my garage and I certainly could not justify buying a house with a larger garage just so I could fit an F150 in it. I also consider off-road maneuverability as an asset so that is another strike against the F150. I do want at least a 6000 lb tow rating which is not possible with a Ranger sized truck. So I ended up with a Sport Trac even though I would prefer a longer bed. An extended cab Dakota would suit me better but I would never consider a Chrysler product, especially now. A Dakota size F100 would be my choice even if the fuel mileage and price were not that much different than an F150. I certainly could have purchased an F150 for less than my Sport Trac.

Crap + Crap = More Crap

If nobody cared about cars and had no passion for exciting vehicles we would all drive Toyotas.

This one caught me by surprise. Hall Of Fame Racing, which fielded the number 96 Toyota last year with help from Joe Gibbs Racing, has joined forces with Yates Racing for 2009 and will run Fords out of the Yates Racing shops. 2000 series champ Bobby Labonte will be the driver. He drove the number 43 Dodge for Petty Enterprises last year. That brings the potential number of teams in the Yates shop to four from only two last year. Before the end of last season Paul Menard announced that he would join Yates Racing bringing his family's Menards sponsorship with him from Dale Earnhardt Inc. All this seems a bit strange since Yates other two cars, the 28 driven by Travis Kvapil and the 38 driven by David Gulliland ran most of last season without sponsorship. It is also widely speculated that one of Roush Fenway's five teams will move to Yates after the 2009 season since NASCAR has limited all teams to four cars. This could bring the total number of Ford Sprint Cup teams to ten - Roush 5, Yates 3, Hall of Fame 1, Wood Brothers, 1 - although there is no guarantee that Yates will continue to run the 28 and 38 teams. I have to wonder how much support Yates is getting from Ford. I suspect they make a good bit of cash from their engine program which is a joint venture with Roush. All Ford teams in all three NASCAR divisions run engines supplied by Roush/Yates.

My ex-boss at work is a Honda fanatic and his son-in-law just bought an MKS. His only comment was that he would be leery of the reliability, especially all the electronics. I think he is just pissed that he couldn't talk the kid into an Acura. The ex-boss drives an older Prelude and his wife has a TL.

Why would Ford or any other US manufacturer spend money to develop vehicles for that market knowing full well that the government is going to do whatever is necessary to protect THEIR domestic brands? Sure sounds fair to me. Global market my butt.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...390/1148/AUTO01 About time. :shades:

morgande, let's go way out on a limb and assume that all of your points are valid. In today's marketplace where consumers are still reeling from the shock of $4/gal gas, there is also something to be said for perception. Ford is betting that those consumers will shy away from anything with a V8 if they can get the same performance from an EB V6. The V8 needs cylinder deactivation or some other relatively expensive technology to achieve similar numbers to a turbo V6. Those are just two different methods to achieve the same result, at least in your mind. The point is, Ford is putting their eggs in a different basket. One they believe will resonate better with the current crop of consumers. I have to believe that is also why they changed the name from Twinforce to Ecoboost. And, yes, it is called marketing. It also demonstrates the kind of thinking that has so far kept Ford from having to ask for government help, unlike those trying to market Hemi 300s and Impala SSs. That's not so say it can't work both ways. Personally, I prefer the sound and feel of a V8. Ford catered to my tastes as well. My current truck is a 2007 Sport Trac 4.6L 4x4. It replaced a 2002 Ranger FX4 that had a 4.0L V6. The Sport Trac can tow 6000 lbs whereas the Ranger couldn't tow a fart and the Sport Trac gets significantly better highway fuel economy all while giving me the sound and feel I prefer.

Interesting debate. I think there is one thing that is skewing the numbers though when it comes to GT500 resale values. The cars that are coming up for sale now are most likely those that were bought when you could not get one for sticker. Right now it is difficult to find a low mileage 07 GT500 for much less than a brand new 09 and I have to believe that is mostly because the sellers paid a high ADM when they bought these cars. At some point the used market will begin to correct itself when more cars are resold that did not originally sell at a high markup.

I am pulling for Ford, I just have no good reason to buy one right now. My Sport Trac is only two years old and doing very well. As for Walmart, just ask any ex Rubbermaid employees what they think...

Any truth to this? It was posted back in October so it may be different now... http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/16/fords-l...l-v8-diesel-doa

That doesn't explain why the UAW did not unionize the transplants. Even the right to work issue seems questionable since Ford used to have a plant near Atlanta and Georgia is a right to work state. Perhaps the union members should be questioning why their leadership allowed this to happen. Yeah, its water over the dam now but it seems like a key contributor to the current state of affairs.

Could someone explain to me why the UAW was not able to unionize the transplants? Seems to me that everything worked fairly well when all the US manufacturing plants were union plants. Granted, the companies were constantly under the threat of a strike but they were willing to appease the union because they were able to pass the labor costs on to the consumer. All the manufacturers basically had the same labor costs so their cars were priced similarly and thus they all made similar profits which were enough to sustain the business. Now that there are other choices for consumers to pick from that are not subject to the threat of labor strikes, the union has basically lost its power.

That's what I love about this forum. I come here to read about the latest Ford news and all I see is a bunch of egotistical fools sniping at each other. My ignore list is about to go bankrupt.

If anyone is interested, I have a brand new set of 235/65/18 Cross-Terrains that came off my 07 Sport Trac. I had the dealer install BFG All-Terrain T/A's in 265/65/18 before I took delivery of the truck. I would take $500 for the Michelins.

davdog, what type of work do you do? And be honest in your answer. I can tell what I do, I work for a company that builds and maintains boilers for electric power plants. Do you think I am worried about my job? You better believe I am. If companies of this size are allowed to just disappear the result will be a much smaller demand for just about every service and consumer good you can name. Why do you think the European, Korean and Japanese governments have already decided to help many of the auto companies based in their countries?

In case you have not listened to Carlos Ghosn's keynote speech here is a link: