Deanh Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 For the record, CR in its most recent edition recommended the Fusion and gave it a very positive review. On the downside however, both version of the Mustang (V6 and GT) are now ranked as worse than average reliability. Also, when Ford was selling 400 thousand Taurus cars where those people taking the easy way out? Taurus....one word...STYLING!.....that was the buying premise...it looked TOTALLY different and the public liked it...well at least initially....mustang dependability has never been a question...those cars are bullet proof...only reason they come back to us is for bodywork...funny what a 300hp graduation present becomes in the hands of a non-responsible pimply faced backwards cap Black Fly wearing juvie after a sprinkle..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Funny how people bash magazines and analysts......until they like the product it is praising. :lol: CR absolutely desrves bashing..........and beleive me NOT just about cars...so called experts on everything talking outa their A$$'s sometime... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave9991 Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Why not? Are you calling 400,000+ people wrong? The Accord and Camry may be better on reputation alone, but there are traits of the fusion that some of those 400k buyers are looking for, and probably are not aware of. It would not be the first time a superior vehicle gets out sold by an inferior vehicle (Mazda3 vs. Corolla). I would say the Fusion is doing fairly good, it is the #5 best selling midsize sedan on the market, it just recently passed up the Sonata, and the next target would be the Altima. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 The 3.5 motor would make the Fusion fully competitive within class. No, it wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 let's see what is happening with some competition - Hyundai just introduced a SMALLER engine in the Azera .. a move no doubt focused on making the Azera a little more affordable, but also at making an Azera with better MPG - the 240hp 3.3l gets 28mpg at the highway. hmm ... could the tide turning ? probably not yet ... but I am not convinced a 3.5l 250+hp engine is a necessity anymore ... if this was a Honda, people would be using it ans an example of "visionary understanding of the market" or something stupid like that. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 for 2009 I want a mondeo why wait? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 for 2009 I want a mondeo why wait? This thing will flash fry a buffalo in 45 seconds. 45 seconds? But I want it now!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 let's see what is happening with some competition - Hyundai just introduced a SMALLER engine in the Azera .. a move no doubt focused on making the Azera a little more affordable, but also at making an Azera with better MPG - the 240hp 3.3l gets 28mpg at the highway. hmm ... could the tide turning ? probably not yet ... but I am not convinced a 3.5l 250+hp engine is a necessity anymore ... if this was a Honda, people would be using it ans an example of "visionary understanding of the market" or something stupid like that. Igor This is possibly to create a easier bridge from the Sonata to the Azera. This a good idea IMHO and if using that train of thought, I've said it before the top of the line D30 is a decent powerplant in it's own right and I get the suspicion this is hold over until the D35 and D37 get brought up on line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 This thing will flash fry a buffalo in 45 seconds. 45 seconds? But I want it now!! mmmm...buffalo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 No, it wouldn't. It sure wouldn't hurt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 This thing will flash fry a buffalo in 45 seconds. 45 seconds? But I want it now!! I ususally agree with everything you say, but it was 40, not 45 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 (edited) It sure wouldn't hurt it.True, but it would silence the complainers on this board for only a matter of minutes before the whining started about it being built on CD3, not EUCD, about it not being a Mondeo, about it having an inferior interior, about it STILL having less hp than the Camry, Altima, etc.; would still be outsold by Accord, Camry, etc., and on and on it would go. It is impossible to build a vehicle that is 'class leading' to the finicky and ever changing standards of some on this board, ergo there is no point in trying to please them. BTW, if Ford gets a 10% hp boost from the Duratec 30, won't they be right square in Accord territory? Of course, it's fine for the Accord to have 'only' 240 hp, but for the Fusion to end up in that area? Inexcusable, storm WHQ, demand an accounting, prepare the battering ram, blah blah blah. Sound and fury signifying nothing. Edited March 20, 2007 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 I ususally agree with everything you say, but it was 40, not 45 lol (you saw that one coming, right?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 just joicing the 3.0 to 240 hp looks horribly like the Fusion is MEANT to be the sub-Hyundai bargain model. Think of the nasty, clear lighters for people too cheap fora Bic. I don't get it. (because I steal my lighters from random parties) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Well, the Accord also has the 260+ net HP performance hybrid option. As well as the upper level Acura TL trim level with over 270 hp available. Yes, I know that I'm being facetious. Personally, a PIP D30 with 240+ HP (and how big that plus is is important) with a proportional increase in torque would be enough to make the Fusion the third fastest in its competitive group (it would fall in behind the class breakout camry and the recent start performer Altima 3.5SE) [Te fusion does well in the power to weight ratio catagory]. I just don't see the 2.0GTDI being a massive performer. Now, the 2.3LGTDI would be a good candidate, but the 2.0L seems to be an economy leader in my book. All eh economy of the 4 cylinder, but the power of the v6. Would be a nice marketing device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Well, the Accord also has the 260+ net HP performance hybrid option. As well as the upper level Acura TL trim level with over 270 hp available. Yes, I know that I'm being facetious. Personally, a PIP D30 with 240+ HP (and how big that plus is is important) with a proportional increase in torque would be enough to make the Fusion the third fastest in its competitive group (it would fall in behind the class breakout camry and the recent start performer Altima 3.5SE) [Te fusion does well in the power to weight ratio catagory]. I just don't see the 2.0GTDI being a massive performer. Now, the 2.3LGTDI would be a good candidate, but the 2.0L seems to be an economy leader in my book. All eh economy of the 4 cylinder, but the power of the v6. Would be a nice marketing device. The 2 liter isn't the Mazda engine IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Well, the Accord also has the 260+ net HP performance hybrid option. As well as the upper level Acura TL trim level with over 270 hp available. Yes, I know that I'm being facetious. Personally, a PIP D30 with 240+ HP (and how big that plus is is important) with a proportional increase in torque would be enough to make the Fusion the third fastest in its competitive group (it would fall in behind the class breakout camry and the recent start performer Altima 3.5SE) [Te fusion does well in the power to weight ratio catagory]. I just don't see the 2.0GTDI being a massive performer. Now, the 2.3LGTDI would be a good candidate, but the 2.0L seems to be an economy leader in my book. All eh economy of the 4 cylinder, but the power of the v6. Would be a nice marketing device. .. but you do remember that the 2.0l T will be rated at ABOVE 260hp .. it will be the most powerful engine for the Fusion .. not the V6 .. but the D2.0 GTDI. so we will have 160hp D23 (or 180hp D25) NA I4 240hp D30 NA V6 and 260+hp D20 GTDI I4 depending on the fuel economy numbers this may or may not be an impressive engine lineup. Ford's main target will be to beat Toyota's 19/28 (2008 testing) MPG with the V6 AND the GTDI D20 - if they can pull that off, they will do very well. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 The 2 liter isn't the Mazda engine IIRC. we will have to wait and see whether Ford went with the Mazda TMIC design from their DISI program, or another route - I personally think that since the D20 GTDI makes so much power the intercooler is front mounted - not top ... FMIC also would allow Ford to keep the hood unchanged. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swenson88 Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 BTW, if Ford gets a 10% hp boost from the Duratec 30, won't they be right square in Accord territory? Of course, it's fine for the Accord to have 'only' 240 hp, but for the Fusion to end up in that area? Yes, the current Accord has "only" 240hp, but we also know that a brand new Accord is right around the corner and I can pretty much guarantee that if the past is any indication of how Honda will react to the market the next gen Accord is going to probably have the same hp as the competition, albeit with a smaller, more rev-happy engine. So, if Ford bumps the Fusion up to 240hp for 2008, I bet the 2008 Accord has 260+, then there'll be the new Malibu with >250hp and Aura the same. So who does that leave? With 240hp Ford will be in the lower end of the market against Hyundai (235hp), DCX (235hp), and maybe some other stragglers. I know we can defend it as Ford fans all we want, but the fact is that's a poor showing for a midsize V6 FWD sedan in this market. If the 3.0 got better mileage than the competition I could see it working in this market, but the fact that the competition is getting better mpg AND power out of their larger V6's really hurts this argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 True, but it would silence the complainers on this board for only a matter of minutes before the whining started about it being built on CD3, not EUCD, about it not being a Mondeo, about it having an inferior interior, about it STILL having less hp than the Camry, Altima, etc.; would still be outsold by Accord, Camry, etc., and on and on it would go. It is impossible to build a vehicle that is 'class leading' to the finicky and ever changing standards of some on this board, ergo there is no point in trying to please them. BTW, if Ford gets a 10% hp boost from the Duratec 30, won't they be right square in Accord territory? Of course, it's fine for the Accord to have 'only' 240 hp, but for the Fusion to end up in that area? Inexcusable, storm WHQ, demand an accounting, prepare the battering ram, blah blah blah. Sound and fury signifying nothing. Ooops, sorry, wrong answer, you'll have to settle for the blender! 240hp is where the Accord is NOW. It's about to get replaced, and does anyone believe Honda won't turn up the wick a bit? For that matter, isn't the single most consistent whine on this board that Ford targets the competition where they are, and not where they're going? 3.5 for the Fusion, preferably by Thursday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Ooops, sorry, wrong answer, you'll have to settle for the blender! 240hp is where the Accord is NOW. It's about to get replaced, and does anyone believe Honda won't turn up the wick a bit? For that matter, isn't the single most consistent whine on this board that Ford targets the competition where they are, and not where they're going? 3.5 for the Fusion, preferably by Thursday. we have no indication of the new Accord engine - if it stays at 240hp will you shut up? When is the new accord introduced anyways? Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 we have no indication of the new Accord engine - if it stays at 240hp will you shut up? When is the new accord introduced anyways? Igor Accord is moving upto 280HP http://www.vtec.net/modelmatrix/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Accord is moving upto 280HP http://www.vtec.net/modelmatrix/ OK - if that turns out correct I will shut up ... but I still do not see why people ignore the 260+ engine that is going to be in the Fusion - the GTDI and only complain about the V6 ... Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Interesting, I was really expecting Honda to use their trickle down on the Accord and give it the 3.2L Acura TL engine with a slightly more economical tune. The 3.5L rumor is interesting. I've heard about their power bump for their large 4 bangers a while back. Makes sense as its about time for them. I wasn't aware that Ford had a different 2.0L other than the Euro Duratec 20 and the Mazda MZR d20 (and its castrated US copy). If they can wring that much power out of a GTDI 2.0L 4, I'll be impressed. But, that's about equivalent to a 60% displacement power increase over what a Di 2.0L should produce in a streetable tune. Its going to be rough to contain the lag, unless that's one exotic turbo setup. However, if they do have one of those nifty variable turbos and have a good enough ECU, it should get some decent highway mileage. I saw the earlier post on the other thread about that 2.0LGTDI, I just thought it was a typo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Interesting, I was really expecting Honda to use their trickle down on the Accord and give it the 3.2L Acura TL engine with a slightly more economical tune. The 3.5L rumor is interesting. I've heard about their power bump for their large 4 bangers a while back. Makes sense as its about time for them. I wasn't aware that Ford had a different 2.0L other than the Euro Duratec 20 and the Mazda MZR d20 (and its castrated US copy). If they can wring that much power out of a GTDI 2.0L 4, I'll be impressed. But, that's about equivalent to a 60% displacement power increase over what a Di 2.0L should produce in a streetable tune. Its going to be rough to contain the lag, unless that's one exotic turbo setup. However, if they do have one of those nifty variable turbos and have a good enough ECU, it should get some decent highway mileage. I saw the earlier post on the other thread about that 2.0LGTDI, I just thought it was a typo. we are all hopeful .. or at least I am ... if they pull off over 30mpg on the GTDI D20, it will be one hack of a top engine... ass I said before .. with this engine lineup, Ford needs 3o WHY mpg from both the D30PIP and D20GTDI. We will have to wait and see though for actual numbers.. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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