Ford Explorer Falls from SUV Grace

[rmc523]

that would change if someone brought something out that LOOKED ok...........I would go so far as to say what if the Edge was the Explorer replacement....styling sells the car at least initially.....ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ's and f'in awful door pulls don't....face it changing light clusters on a vehicle ALREADY long in the tooth does NOTHING to ingest excitement! If say they had completely revamped the explorer along the lines of something visually exciting ( aka Bronco concept ) sales NEVER would have tanked....styling, styling, styling...plain and simple!

 

I understand what you're saying, the styling needs to be different. You mentioned making the Explorer look like the Bronco concept, I don't think that would've worked either, I think it was designed to be a niche product, much like the FJ (which IMO is hideous). I'm not so sure the Bronco concept would've appealed to everybody. Maybe if you took some cues from the Bronco concept. I may be misunderstanding you though, you said something visually exciting, so you could just mean something that stands out (but not too much)?

[Deanh]

I understand what you're saying, the styling needs to be different. You mentioned making the Explorer look like the Bronco concept, I don't think that would've worked either, I think it was designed to be a niche product, much like the FJ (which IMO is hideous). I'm not so sure the Bronco concept would've appealed to everybody. Maybe if you took some cues from the Bronco concept. I may be misunderstanding you though, you said something visually exciting, so you could just mean something that stands out (but not too much)?

using the bronco concept was hypothetical...your take as a niche vehicle for that concept is on the money...and beleive me it would have sold like hot cakes...all i was trying to do is emphasise that Ford TRULEY missed the boat on the Explorer re-vamp...they spent more time designing STUPID door pulle than the most important aspect of the vehicle...the exterior...mechanically and drivetrain wise the Explorer is great....

[rmc523]

using the bronco concept was hypothetical...your take as a niche vehicle for that concept is on the money...and beleive me it would have sold like hot cakes...all i was trying to do is emphasise that Ford TRULEY missed the boat on the Explorer re-vamp...they spent more time designing STUPID door pulle than the most important aspect of the vehicle...the exterior...mechanically and drivetrain wise the Explorer is great....

 

Well IMO if that hideous Toyota FJ (and other cars such as Prius, Element, xB, etc.) thing can sell, I think just about anything could sell. I liked the Bronco concept, it would make a great competitor to the Wrangler and FJ (they could make a 4 door version ala Wrangler Unlimited - it could take sales from other Ford SUVs but would you rather have that customer trade in their Explorer and buy a Toyota or trade it in on a Bronco)

 

Now, on the Explorer, I think they did a good job with it, I personally think it looks nice, but they could have done more. Those door handles are kinda silly (they could even keep the door release handle where it is above the window switches, just the grab handle is in such an awkward place). They say the door is designed like that b/c of the safety bars (whatever their called), there isn't any room for the handle mechanism (no excuse for where the grab handle is) Who knows? maybe they arent able to put it somewhere else, given the door design.

 

They should've been more aggressive with the new Explorer design. Sometimes they can be so afraid to put something different on the market that they end up coming out with a "bland" (although nice) car. On another note, I dont like how Ford is putting the turn signal stalk on a 45 degree angle like in the Explorer, I prefer the almost 90 degree angle found in the Expedition.

Edited July 25, 2007 by rmc523

[RichardJensen]

Because the product is built here in the US.

So's the GM twins (formerly sextuplets: as in Rainier, Bravada, Ascender, Envoy, Trailblazer, 9-7x)

[old_fairmont_wagon]

The main purpose of the Vulcan 3.0L in the ranger is to make a base level 4X4 setup work. Apparently, the powers that be didn't think that it was worth while making a 4X4 setup for the 2.3L (would YOU want to drive that?). Since they had the Vulcan 3.0L, and since it was already in use on the line, why not keep it? Now that the Old Taurus is done, I'd imagine that they just stockpiled Vulcan 3.0L engines and discontinued making them (or have scheduled an end date already).

 

As for the Essex 3.8L/4.2L V6 vs the Cologne 4.0L, there are two very different things about them. The 90 degree setup of the Essex makes packaging not so easy for it. Granted, in the Explorer, when it previously had the 5.0L, and then switched to the SOHC 4.6L which was bigger than the FEs in external dimensions, there should have been no problem using it. The 4.0L cologne is marginally more efficient (mpg wise) than the 4.2L essex. The Essex was capable of slightly higher torque numbers (look at the 2007 v6 F-150 numbers) than the cologne 4.0L, but, had a significantly less desirable emissions profile. The cologne 4.0L is also more expensive than the essex (and increasing with the unfavorable exchange rates).

 

I think that emissions was the bigger draw of the Cologne v6 though. It is quite clean in its current state. At the moment, however, the best choice for all of them is the D35/D37. ITs got a broader power band, is more efficient, and is lighter. ITs also rather compact and as clean as or cleaner than the cologne 4.0L.

[NickF1011]

Well IMO if that hideous Toyota FJ (and other cars such as Prius, Element, xB, etc.) thing can sell, I think just about anything could sell.

 

 

Eh, the Prius sells because of concept, not really because of the looks. The other three you mentioned really don't sell very well in the big scheme of things.....at least nowhere close to the levels of the current Explorer.

[rmc523]

Eh, the Prius sells because of concept, not really because of the looks. The other three you mentioned really don't sell very well in the big scheme of things.....at least nowhere close to the levels of the current Explorer.

 

I understand why the Prius sells, I just don't understand why Toyota had to make it so ugly. I know the other vehicles don't sell near Explorer levels, my point was that they sell at all (b/c IMO they're ugly), I would never consider any of them (they're all Aztecs in my book)

Edited July 25, 2007 by rmc523

[NickF1011]

I understand why the Prius sells, I just don't understand why Toyota had to make it so ugly. I know the other vehicles don't sell near Explorer levels, my point was that they sell at all (b/c IMO they're ugly), I would never consider any of them (they're all Aztecs in my book)

 

Well, for every FJ Cruiser, xB, and Element there's an Aztek, Baja, and xA that fails to sell. It's certainly a risk to release polarizing designs. Some will catch, others won't. Hard to know which will be which before it goes on sale in some cases.

[ebritt]

IMHO, it was the front end. The rest of the vehicle is rather nicely done; the design has nice shape and surface development compared to its competition, but then there's that front end. Sumbitch ugly, especially when you compare it to this:

 

Now THAT looks good!

[rmc523]

Well, for every FJ Cruiser, xB, and Element there's an Aztek, Baja, and xA that fails to sell. It's certainly a risk to release polarizing designs. Some will catch, others won't. Hard to know which will be which before it goes on sale in some cases.

 

True, but IMO, the product designers should be able to figure out that designs (like Aztec) are hideous and won't sell. Don't they do focus groups (if thats what they're called) or show a car to a few customers to see what kind of reaction it gets (if they did, whoever they chose has no concept of a good looking car)?

[ANTAUS]

Didnt they do focus groups for the 49, 427, Conti, etc. and all went quite well...? Yeah well, obviously that didn't resolve anything.

 

 

People who shop Toyota, aren't necessarily placing styling on the top of the list, or top 5 for that matter. Then there's automakers like BMW, that stick to a controversial design, and keep going at it yet seems to stick since sales are up...in that situation, it's probably other assets which help sell the car, then styling takes a backseat.

 

In the case of the Ass-tec and even Subaru Rebecca's Benign, the consumer group must have been served alcohol before opinions were taken...

[pcsario]

It was Honda that originally owned the small SUV crown to begin with. The Escape took it from them, Honda finally got it back....barely. If Escape sales continue as they are, it may very well outsell the CRV again.

 

Perspective, pc, perspective.

I always offer an ubiased, larger. fuller, more realistic perspective on things that goes beyond Ford, and time generally ends up proving me right. You've to recognize Honda's efforts for not taking the cheap & half assed route, a la Ford NA. Their gains and double whammy to Jr's stupidity didn't surprise me in the least. It's a well deserved feat.

 

I don't see the Escape reversing its trend like you state, and the Explorer is relatively fine with me, fact of the matter is this page would be a 100+ page circlejerk by now if the Escape had taken the Explorer's place. It didn't due to its mediocrity.

 

Honda isn't dumping the CR-V into fleets like Ford is with the Escape, they're even increasing production due to strong RETAIL demand. Take out fleet sales and the Escape still has a long way to go to catch up Honda, plus Ford isn't taking any efforts to fix the situation, year after year, old Vs. new, fleet numbers for the Escape remained pretty much flat. Once the Vic is out, it will be Ford's new fleet queen.

Edited July 26, 2007 by pcsario

[RichardJensen]

I always offer an ubiased, larger. fuller, more realistic perspective on things that goes beyond Ford

Right.

 

That's why you keep coming here.

 

Because you're unbiased, large, and full of something.

[Furious1Auto]

Well IMO if that hideous Toyota FJ (and other cars such as Prius, Element, xB, etc.) thing can sell, I think just about anything could sell. I liked the Bronco concept, it would make a great competitor to the Wrangler and FJ (they could make a 4 door version ala Wrangler Unlimited - it could take sales from other Ford SUVs but would you rather have that customer trade in their Explorer and buy a Toyota or trade it in on a Bronco)

 

Now, on the Explorer, I think they did a good job with it, I personally think it looks nice, but they could have done more. Those door handles are kinda silly (they could even keep the door release handle where it is above the window switches, just the grab handle is in such an awkward place). They say the door is designed like that b/c of the safety bars (whatever their called), there isn't any room for the handle mechanism (no excuse for where the grab handle is) Who knows? maybe they arent able to put it somewhere else, given the door design.

 

They should've been more aggressive with the new Explorer design. Sometimes they can be so afraid to put something different on the market that they end up coming out with a "bland" (although nice) car. On another note, I dont like how Ford is putting the turn signal stalk on a 45 degree angle like in the Explorer, I prefer the almost 90 degree angle found in the Expedition.

BAD ASS!!!!!!

[NickF1011]

I always offer an ubiased, larger. fuller, more realistic perspective on things that goes beyond Ford, and time generally ends up proving me right. You've to recognize Honda's efforts for not taking the cheap & half assed route, a la Ford NA. Their gains and double whammy to Jr's stupidity didn't surprise me in the least. It's a well deserved feat.

 

I don't see the Escape reversing its trend like you state, and the Explorer is relatively fine with me, fact of the matter is this page would be a 100+ page circlejerk by now if the Escape had taken the Explorer's place. It didn't due to its mediocrity.

 

Honda isn't dumping the CR-V into fleets like Ford is with the Escape, they're even increasing production due to strong RETAIL demand. Take out fleet sales and the Escape still has a long way to go to catch up Honda, plus Ford isn't taking any efforts to fix the situation, year after year, old Vs. new, fleet numbers for the Escape remained pretty much flat. Once the Vic is out, it will be Ford's new fleet queen.

 

You don't see the Escape reversing its trend? It was the best-selling SUV/CUV in the country last month. Oh, surely that was 90% fleet sales so it doesn't count. :rolleyes:

[NLPRacing]

Right.

 

That's why you keep coming here.

 

Because you're unbiased, large, and full of something.

 

 

I wonder where pc is today?

[630land]

the clip is pure BS. It is as if there is no such thing as the Escape anf Ford still only makes large SUV's.

 

And Honda magically predicted high gas prices? Also, the CRV is NOT available as a hybrid!

 

Also, any BOF or heavy SUV can be called "fall from grace". Including Nissan Armada, Toyo Sequoia, and MB whatever.

Edited July 26, 2007 by 630land

[Furious1Auto]

Eh, the Prius sells because of concept, not really because of the looks. The other three you mentioned really don't sell very well in the big scheme of things.....at least nowhere close to the levels of the current Explorer.

The Prius was selling because they where advertising the EPA estimated fuel mileage was 60 MPG, and gas was $3.00 a gallon! It's a sub-compact why the hell else would anyone want to cram their self into one! It wasn't until after people started buying them that they found out the EPA was wrong and it only gets 45 MPG. That's not good enough to justify the torture of getting in and out of one!