OFFICIAL: Next Focus and Fusion on GLOBAL PLATFORMS

[Watchdevil]

Global Platforms are different to world cars.

The next Mondeo/Fusion twins won't be as close as Mondeo/Contour of the 1990s.

 

This is a similar situation to the rumored Global Rear Wheel Drive platform.

The thinking there is groups work with a common platform but develop

their own cars and styling, so why cant this be true for Mondeo and Fusion?

There are enough cars sold in NA and Europe to justify two cars on the one platform

with completely different styling, (similar to Lincoln MKS is different to Taurus)

 

Edit,

Didn't Horbury say FNA and FoE were moving to a common styling combining

the two current themes?

 

 

That is what GM is planning for North American Zeta cars. They share platforms but styling will be individual with the Pontiac G8 a stop gap until they design a Pontiac to build alongslide the Impala and Camaro. GM already has global platforms in place with it's FWD models.

 

One look at the Lincoln MKR conforms that Horbury picked up some cues from the Ford Iosis concept... The fenders, A pillar that flows into the hood and the shouldered bodysides.

[jpd80]

That is what GM is planning for North American Zeta cars. They share platforms but styling will be individual with the Pontiac G8 a stop gap until they design a Pontiac to build alongslide the Impala and Camaro. GM already has global platforms in place with it's FWD models.

 

One look at the Lincoln MKR conforms that Horbury picked up some cues from the Ford Iosis concept... The fenders, A pillar that flows into the hood and the shouldered bodysides.

Holden is doing all the architecture design and development, GM NA is doing all the bits you see on Camaro and Impala.

The difference with Zeta is that Holden is developing all zetas to Product Confirmantion and doing the reliability program.

Ford will probably want to share this work between respective divisions.

Edited August 23, 2007 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

Global Platforms are different to world cars.

The next Mondeo/Fusion twins won't be as close as Mondeo/Contour of the 1990s.

Problem is, that's not what we're hearing. What we're hearing is this perfect world where you can get off a plane in Berlin and eat the same Big Mac that you ate in Chicago.

 

I mean, see the same Ford that you saw in Chicago.

[jpd80]

Problem is, that's not what we're hearing. What we're hearing is this perfect world where you can get off a plane in Berlin and eat the same Big Mac that you ate in Chicago.

 

I mean, see the same Ford that you saw in Chicago.

Not arguing but I think it's how far they want to take the similarities.

Like you said Toyota's Camry is different around the world

but on the same platform, so why can't the same be true for Ford?

[RichardJensen]

Well, on the same platform yes, but the question is one of buyer expectations.

 

We are not, collectively so removed from our pasts in the U.S. and the U.K. (for instance) that these two things have been eliminated from our collective consciousnesses:

 

 

Toyota, on the other hand has no real 'past' to speak of. At least not outside of Japan. There presence in ths country is largely associated with the success of a car that has changed very little in very many respects since it blew the Taurus (let alone the Luminas and K-Cars) out of the water in '92.

[TomServo92]

This is the Diamamante from 1990-1995. The LS looks like it took taillamps from this one and married it to the newer 97 Diamante body.

 

 

Except that the LS taillamps don't look like that:

 

[NLPRacing]

Here's another key. If FNA and FoE products have different sheetmetal but shared mechanicals, there's a REAL easy way to save on Mercury products. Just use FoE sheetmetal, except with a Mercury badge. If the hard points are all the same, no reason the sheetmetal can't just be shipped over and bolted on at the factories.

 

 

Well, the current Mercury design language (satin trim and such) would be shitcanned, and replaced with literally just a FoE design, with a Mercury badge. At least that is my idea on what to do.

 

Then, the cost of keeping Mercury would be even FURTHER reduced, since the design for sheetmetal would come from Europe. It would just be the cost of shipping the existing sheetmetal parts over, and integrating them into the manufacturing facilities's operations. Unique parts would be reduced to badging, and perhaps different trim pieces for the standard interior design.

 

It would also drive interest in the brand, since they literally would be European Fords, just assembled here. Higher sales would mean more cash for development, and then we could differentiate Mercurys by using different motor tunes. They will ALWAYS have unique sheetmetal, since they will be joined at the hip to FoE's designs.

 

I agree 100%! I really think that is why we haven't seen any new Mercury stuff floating around.

[pcsario]

Ford sells a fair bit more vehicles in the U.S. than in the EU; having design direction led from Europe is like the tail wagging the dog

Take out trucks and SUV's, and exactly how many of Ford NA's vehicles are truly competitive, or impressing people as much as FOE's stuff?

 

Sorry RJ, time to wake up and smell the coffee. Right now, Ford NA is the tail and Europe is the head of that dog, in terms of market realities and knowing what to do to close a sale. "Red, white and bold" my ass. Ford NA's performance Vs. that of other brands should be telling you something: The majority of Americans don't care about how "American" a car looks, whatever that means.

 

If Ford NA design and talent was so great, then they should be doing equally as good in terms of baiting customers to the brand. Fact is they're failing miserably and we've all given Ford NA plenty of time and opportunities. Time to let others, who have proven themselves, lead or have the upper hand. FOE should simply be given preference in terms of design for passenger cars, since their team has shown RESULTS, both in execution and in performance. Their stuff actually shows effort and refinement, not mediocrity and complacency that only hands sales to competitors on a silver platter. It's ridiculous to see the Fiesta will probably have a better interior than that in the Fusion.

 

Save for the Stang, Ford NA should only be left responsible for the more truckish stuff and Lincolns, since that's all they seem to be good at. Leave the rest to Europe and Australia.

Edited August 24, 2007 by pcsario

[RichardJensen]

Right now, Ford NA is the tail and Europe is the head of that dog, in terms of market realities.

Because it's a good idea to make long term business decisions based on current business realities.

 

I mean, that worked out real well with the "SUVs are the new sedans" attitude of the mid-late 90s, right?

 

Also, Ford Brazil is doing way better than Ford Europe: They've come farther faster. But you hate them.

 

Given the turnaround at Ford Brazil, THEY should be doing all the design work for the whole world.

 

PC, you're nothing but your stereotype of a Ford executive reversed.

[pcsario]

dp

Edited August 24, 2007 by pcsario

[pcsario]

No it's not about trends, but proven, consistent talent and results, or lack of them, from both divisions.

 

WHO is impressed with Ford of Brazil's stuff, are they constantly a Top 3 choice, like FOE's vehicles?

 

Oh that's right, their turnaround was due to cost cutting, not internal talent. They sell FOE's stuff, just cheapened out beyond belief.

 

Funny how you ignored their resurgence was largely based on FOE's influence (Fiesta, Ka, Fusion-Ecosport, etc) so thanks for proving my point about who should have the upper hand when it comes to engineering, sheetmetal, etc.

Edited August 24, 2007 by pcsario

[NickF1011]

No it's not about trends, but proven, consistent talent and results, or lack of them, from both divisions.

 

WHO is impressed with Ford of Brazil's stuff, are they constantly a Top 3 choice, like FOE's vehicles?

 

Oh that's right, their turnaround was due to cost cutting, not internal talent. They sell FOE's stuff, just cheapened out beyond belief.

 

Funny how you ignored their resurgence was largely based on FOE's influence (Fiesta, Ka, Fusion-Ecosport, etc) so thanks for proving my point about who should have the upper hand when it comes to engineering, sheetmetal, etc.

 

And you largely ignore that it is only recently that FoE has had succes at all. Prior to that it was FoNA that was rolling in the success and profits.

[igor]

No it's not about trends, but proven, consistent talent and results, or lack of them, from both divisions.

 

WHO is impressed with Ford of Brazil's stuff, are they constantly a Top 3 choice, like FOE's vehicles?

 

Oh that's right, their turnaround was due to cost cutting, not internal talent. They sell FOE's stuff, just cheapened out beyond belief.

 

Funny how you ignored their resurgence was largely based on FOE's influence (Fiesta, Ka, Fusion-Ecosport, etc) so thanks for proving my point about who should have the upper hand when it comes to engineering, sheetmetal, etc.

PC - I mostly agree, but I would argue the products turnaround was not due to "FOE's influence" as much as global leverage .. the EcoSport is ways different from the EU Fusion, and the RoCam engine while unrefined is a bulletproof long lasting engine ... Finally, as the recent article said - the Bahia plant was a big boost to the division.

 

I would go as far as say that Brazil's success was due to smart use of resources - and in those terms the US turnarouns will be identical.

 

Now about "who should house projects" - I think it should be simple: The division that has the most to lose if a product fails. Example: Ford NA can go on without a Focus or Fiesta .. they would hurt, but they would not collapse .. Ford EU cannot survive without Focus, and Brazil cannot survive without Fiesta - so EU will take the lead on the Focus and Brazil will head the Fiesta developments. On the other hand - Ford NA CANNOT survive without a mid-size car - Ford EU/SA can - albeit weak - so Ford NA will head the future mid-size developments.

 

This is not anymore about talents .. all talents will be used there is only ONE global PD department; the above is about whose decisions will take priority. Each division comes in with their needs given on their market research (EU: diesels, high tech, US: gassers, low price, bigger engines, AWD, etc)- and every attempt will be made to accommodate them all so the car designed can scope the globe in its flexibility. However, say that US mid-size segment grows by 2 inches in the wheelbase - while it remains still in EU - because the mid-size segment is more important in US, the Ford mid-size car will have the wheelbase US needs. ETC.

 

There is a question whether this should apply only to PLATFORMS or actual vehicles .. but that is something that an insider would have to figure out ... it all depends whether in the particular segment the consumer preferences in all markets are close enough, or not ...

 

I do not know how the new ford will actually operate - but I believe this is how if SHOULD operate.

 

Igor

[pcsario]

Sorry Nick, I don't live in the past, neither do investors or consumers who pass on Ford NA's mediocre ways.

 

Stock is still in the single digit range. Current times surpassed Ford NA long ago, I think the old and new Accord prove that.

 

When they start being truly competitive, or surpassing FOE's stuff, trust me I think everyone'll change their mind about this, wouldn't even be open to discussion.

 

Igor, if it was up to RJ, the Fusion team would have the upper hand for the next midsize sedan, not Europe. He's not open to any negotiations. Simply unacceptable based on the proven performance from both divisions. You know his toughts about the Focus too.

Edited August 24, 2007 by pcsario

[NickF1011]

Sorry Nick, I don't live in the past, neither do investors or consumers who pass on Ford NA's mediocrity.

 

Stock is still in the single digit range. Current times surpassed Ford NA long ago, their sad band-aids don't help.

 

When they start being truly being competitive, or surpassing FOE's stuff, trust me I think everyone'll change their mind.

 

Igor, if it was up to RJ, the Fusion team would have the upper hand for the next midsize sedan, not Europe. Simply unacceptable based on the proven performance from both divisions.

 

I'm not saying that Ford's current NA strategy is better than the current FoE strategy. I'm just pointing out that Europe's strategy likely won't ALWAYS be better, and therefore it would be unwise to blindly follow them just because they are currently doing some things right.

[igor]

Sorry Nick, I don't live in the past, neither do investors or consumers who pass on Ford NA's mediocre ways.

 

Stock is still in the single digit range. Current times surpassed Ford NA long ago, I think the old and new Accord prove that.

 

When they start being truly being competitive, or surpassing FOE's stuff, trust me I think everyone'll change their mind about this, wouldn't even be open to discussion.

 

Igor, if it was up to RJ, the Fusion team would have the upper hand for the next midsize sedan, not Europe. Simply unacceptable based on the proven performance from both divisions. You know his toughts about the Focus too.

you forget that PD is not under divisions ANYMORE - only SALES and MARKETING and MARKET RESEARCH are under the Divisions - PD is global and completely OUT of reach of local chiefs - that is the HUGE difference from back in the Fusion days.

 

In 2004 - Kuzack would have to explain - 1) why was the 2000 Mondeo NOT developed for US market (or why is it not being adjusted for US market now), and why was the Fusion and the 2007 Mondeo NOT being developed together ... That is why it is a completely new ballgame. - The only question is - to WHO's Market research and needs to they listen first? - hence my post.

 

Igor

Edited August 24, 2007 by igor

[pcsario]

Lets hope that's the case, we already know Fields and Mulally prefer Euro Fords.

 

RJ's ways are most often than not deadly paths to mediocre results, as history and his unbelievable record of misses can prove.

[NickF1011]

Lets hope that's the case, we already know Fields and Mulally prefer Euro Fords.

 

RJ's ways are most often than not deadly paths to mediocre results, as history and his unbelievable record of misses can prove.

 

You sure mention Ford's history an awful lot for someone who says it doesn't matter.

[igor]

You sure mention Ford's history an awful lot for someone who says it doesn't matter.

oh snap ...

 

Igor

[pcsario]

It matters if one's a story of ambition, non-stop effort and obsession with execution, which ended in success, and the other is a story of mediocrity and incredibly retarded decisions, resulting in a single digit stock price and lost customers, a situation which will've lasted almost a decade after all is said and done.

 

No parallels can be made when you take that into view.

Edited August 24, 2007 by pcsario

[TomServo92]

It matters if one's a story of success, and the other is a story of mediocrity and wrong decisions.

 

 

And which would that be? The history of both has periods that could be described by either one of your comments. Are you selectively choosing what history is relevant and which is not?

Edited August 24, 2007 by TomServo92

[NickF1011]

And which would that be? The history of both has periods that could be described by either one of your comments. Are you selectively choosing what history is relevant and which is not?

 

I think "selective" is what the "s" in pcsario stands for.

[Blue II]

No it's not about trends, but proven, consistent talent and results, or lack of them, from both divisions.

 

WHO is impressed with Ford of Brazil's stuff, are they constantly a Top 3 choice, like FOE's vehicles?

 

Oh that's right, their turnaround was due to cost cutting, not internal talent. They sell FOE's stuff, just cheapened out beyond belief.

 

Funny how you ignored their resurgence was largely based on FOE's influence (Fiesta, Ka, Fusion-Ecosport, etc) so thanks for proving my point about who should have the upper hand when it comes to engineering, sheetmetal, etc.

 

 

Something has to be done soon. Freeman Thomas or Morgan Freeman or whatever his name is hasn't impressed anyone with his renderings.

[Edstock]

I think the old and new Accord prove that.

 

The new Accord?

 

:hysterical: :hysterical:

 

Bubu, you make funny! I didn't know you had it in you!

 

The new Accord looks like it was done by the same committee that did the Daytona. The coupe is OK, but the sedan sucks.

[pcsario]

Yes Tom, Ford ruled in the past, oh Galaxie, Taurus, etc. *Insert Wonder Years song*

 

They had a nice past, so many glorious moments... oh the memories...

 

Ok... back to reality. Your point?

 

Those times are long gone, that Ford no longer exists.

 

No one buys old cars and it's pointless to play Disco Stu.

 

Edited August 24, 2007 by pcsario