Ford Jellymoulds Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 80% of all counterfeit goods are now being made in China, how would the big 3 respond when fake copies of their cars start arriving on the shores of the US for price of peanuts. Would they be a death trap or bargin buy? Top 10 fake cars http://gemssty.com/2006/10/29/top-10-copycat-cars/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 80% of all counterfeit goods are now being made in China, how would the big 3 respond when fake copies of their cars start arriving on the shores of the US for price of peanuts. Would they be a death trap or bargin buy? Unlike China, the US does a pretty good job of enforcing copyright, trademark, and patent law. If China thinks the US government would even ALLOW those to be sold here in the first place, they better think again. The US govt has forced domestic automakers to make changes over much lesser similarities in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 This only goes to show you that unless the Chinese come full circle, I doubt we will see anything from them in the next 5-10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 The Chinese will not have to sell counterfeit cars in the U.S. They will design and build their own using all the proprietary knowledge they are gaining by forcing foreign auto companies to be in partnership with them. When they come over and beat us, we are the only ones to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 The sky is falling, the sky is falling..... :devil2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Seriously though, there will be no counterfeit cars in North America. What the Chinese bring over when they come will be nothing special. Sure it will get better, but I doubt it will be any kind of serious threat for many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 China doesn't have many bright ideas of their own...of course they have to copy it from others. As for those companies, I would suggest sue and sue, and keep tying up their court system. Eventually something should give. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockFX Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 The Chinese will not have to sell counterfeit cars in the U.S. They will design and build their own using all the proprietary knowledge they are gaining by forcing foreign auto companies to be in partnership with them. When they come over and beat us, we are the only ones to blame. Exactly. We will trade everything we know for a "shot" at the Chinese market. But once they no longer need us they will just kick us out, then we will let them sell in America. Trusting a communist government is like trusting a hooker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 The Chinese will not have to sell counterfeit cars in the U.S. They will design and build their own using all the proprietary knowledge they are gaining by forcing foreign auto companies to be in partnership with them. When they come over and beat us, we are the only ones to blame. And you see how well that has panned out for them. Brillance makes automobiles so safe that even Saab and Volvo should take note...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laserred02 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 the chinese are really good at copying other peoples ideas. whether it be in academia or industry, until they can produce original thought, they will be nothing more than an economy that produces all the shit you can buy at Wal-Mart. They are good at manufacturing cheap shit that someone else designed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 And you see how well that has panned out for them. Brillance makes automobiles so safe that even Saab and Volvo should take note...... Give them a few more years. With all the new engineers graduating every year, it won't take long to reverse engineer a 5-star crash rated car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) Give them a few more years. With all the new engineers graduating every year, it won't take long to reverse engineer a 5-star crash rated car. The problem is (for them), you really can't build such vehicles cheap. Edited October 3, 2007 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockFX Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 The problem is (for them), you really can't build such vehicles cheap. They can build it cheaper there then we can here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 The problem is (for them), you really can't build such vehicles cheap. True but I guess all the Chinese have to do is build a 5 star car cheaper than their competitors. It's kind of like seeing Toyota and Hyundai when they started out except the improvements will be exponential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Give them a few more years. With all the new engineers graduating every year, it won't take long to reverse engineer a 5-star crash rated car. Please they have the engineers now. They are just attempting to build cars as cheap and easy as they possibly can. What works in China does not obviously work in the rest of the world. Until they understand that, forget about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Please they have the engineers now. They are just attempting to build cars as cheap and easy as they possibly can. What works in China does not obviously work in the rest of the world. Until they understand that, forget about it. Read this book. You'll think differently. http://www.chinainc-book.com/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Read this book. You'll think differently.http://www.chinainc-book.com/index.html Thanks for the tip. I have a business trip in the next coming weeks, I will defintely like to get someone else's perspective on things so I'll pick up a copy. Albeit, for the Chinese to succeed in a global economy they are going to need a stalwart and established country to piggyback off of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Thanks for the tip. I have a business trip in the next coming weeks, I will defintely like to get someone else's perspective on things so I'll pick up a copy. Albeit, for the Chinese to succeed in a global economy they are going to need a stalwart and established country to piggyback off of. They kinda go into that. I think you'll like this book. If I hadn't lent it to a friend, I would let you borrow my copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sranger Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 The problem is (for them), you really can't build such vehicles cheap. I remember when the machine tool industry said the same thing.....They were quite wrong.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolita Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I remember when the machine tool industry said the same thing.....They were quite wrong.... I feel that the Chinese can and do build really good cars - but these are expensive, they have name brands and are only sold in China. I really would like to know what percentage of a cars cost is labor. Given todays optimization, and robotics plus hours to build a car I really don't think that difference in price is related directly to labor costs. Of course, once you factor in R&D at China's costs today they have a huge edge vs mainstream manufacturers, more so when they copy. An example related to Ford is Changan. They also build the Landwind Rodeo copy (or license, Im not sure if its a rip off) but despite having inside info on how to build mainstream cars (they do build Mazda 3 and C1 Focus) the Landwind failed miserablyin Europe in crash tests. As they invest tons of money to get the emissions right, the cost rises and all of a sudden they're not as competitive as one would think. Ironically, in third world countries you would imagine that they could get away with anything. However, they are having trouble competing against used Toyota and other used brands. They main issue IMHO, is that they are learning and catching up fast... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I really would like to know what percentage of a cars cost is labor In the latest contract negotiations with GM, both the company and union agreed that the actual labor cost per vehicle averages less than 10%, including retiree and health care benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolita Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 In the latest contract negotiations with GM, both the company and union agreed that the actual labor cost per vehicle averages less than 10%, including retiree and health care benefits. Thanks! So I guess that the most important cost factor is R&D (aside from raw metal cost as I believe manufacturers call the material cost required to build a car). This is where the Chinese have a huge edge by copying. When they start developing their own..costs will go up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 I really would like to know what percentage of a cars cost is labor. Given todays optimization, and robotics plus hours to build a car I really don't think that difference in price is related directly to labor costs. Of course, once you factor in R&D at China's costs today they have a huge edge vs mainstream manufacturers, more so when they copy. It's been reported that it takes about 23 hours to assemble a vehicle, including stamping, assembly and powertrain. Assume $50/hour in wages and benefits to current employees, that's about $1100/vehicle. That ignores the cost of the engineers and designers, and probably the cost of those who manufacture smaller components, but it's a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 They kinda go into that. I think you'll like this book. If I hadn't lent it to a friend, I would let you borrow my copy. Damn you..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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