retro-man Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 The jackals are circling the aging Panther. Only a matter of time before one takes it down and the bloody feast begins. Will Ford inject new life into the once powerful cat before it's too late? (Rhetorical question - I think we all know the answer.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 They cannot sell a vehicle like that for the same price as the Crown Victoria.If police departments really want cars like that, Ford would have done it years ago. Oh yes because Ford is right up there doing what there customers want, that is why their sales and market value have fallen off the face of the earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Also -- the assembly is Metro Atlanta, Georgia USA I wonder if that's actually AAP? Couldn't be... I will contact them. Also, I guess the car originally had a different (and less ungainly) greenhouse: http://gtresearchnews.gatech.edu/newsrelease/carbon.htm That greenhouse looks a lot better than the one on the website, but I suppose this car wasn't designed to LOOK good, it was designed to WORK good(well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 looks really weird I kinda like it (the agressive front end at least) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonas1022 Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 (edited) Looks mean enough. Not much for crush zones though, looks like a 80 mph rearender would finish anyone in the back seat. And the front isn't looking much better for a head on either. It maybe larger than it appears in the spec drawing. I am wondering if the coach doors are an English thing translated into American production. Didn't the English used to have several cars with the coach configuration? And use them for Police cars? Just tickling my brain that way. Maybe too far in the past to matter, but I think that's the influence. Diesel? Sounds about right. I don't know that it'll get past the Officers though. Most departments allow the officers to have a say in what they drive. And handling diesel fueling is an aquired technic, or at least that's what I have heard. I used to drive truck, and never ever liked the diesel fueling...it flat stinks. And once it's on your hands, it's on your hands. Gotta wonder about the capitalization of the firm. To build these cars, and back them while still learning what's going to work, and what has to change. Then do the fix and field the things with some killer warranty to get past the skeptics. I think the CV is the only platform worth having as a patrol car at the moment. My city's cops went with the new Dodge Charger last year. This year they requested the city go to Magnums for increased trunk space. But the back end of that thing is really a wagon, and IMHO not a good wagon at that! My guess is that they will vote to go back to the CV in the next purchase. At least that's my take on the fact that the city has already been requested by the patrolmans union to change the livery of the CV's still in service to the traditional black and white like the newer Dodges. So that they match the next batch of cars purchased. Maybe I'm reading too much into what is transpiring, but it sounds like they want to go back to the bigger CVPI sedans. Edited October 21, 2007 by jonas1022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 I imagine that when all is said and done, most departments come back to the Crown Vic as being the most ideal police car on the market. Its got the 70-mph rear end crash testing, its got the safety reputation for frontal and side crashworthiness. They've got more acceleration out of the car than ever before. The stiffer chassis makes for more aggressive suspension tuning and better handling. Its more solid and built like no other. Its got a huge trunk and is still perhaps the best design for law enforcement. Deep well with the Kelvar drop-in organizer and a full size spare on the shelf. Does any other police car (excl. Tahoe) have room for a full size spare AND room for all the other gear as well. I bet not. To me, I don't see anything upsetting Ford's business with law enforcement. Sure, there is more competition on the market and that's a good thing for those purchasing agents out there who answer to the accountants for spending. They mix it up, but I'll bet that most large cities will not go for very long without refreshing their fleet with some Crown Vics. The majority of LEOs probably would still say they'd rather be in Ford than any other. For the police business, Ford need only get more power and more mileage out of the car and you'd probably have law enforcement happy for years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 (edited) Oh yes because Ford is right up there doing what there customers want, that is why their sales and market value have fallen off the face of the earth. Yes, i deserve that one, I am no expert in police vehicles or purchasing requirements And Ford's PR is telling everyone Crown Victoria is meeting the police department's expectations. Maybe some real competition would jolt Ford into action - before they lose this market. Edited October 21, 2007 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadamaster Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 To me, I don't see anything upsetting Ford's business with law enforcement. Sure, there is more competition on the market and that's a good thing for those purchasing agents out there who answer to the accountants for spending. They mix it up, but I'll bet that most large cities will not go for very long without refreshing their fleet with some Crown Vics. The majority of LEOs probably would still say they'd rather be in Ford than any other. For the police business, Ford need only get more power and more mileage out of the car and you'd probably have law enforcement happy for years to come. I only see three things dislodging the Panther from the police market, the gubment/EPA outlawing them, Ford be stupid enough to discontinue them, or GM resurrecting the B-body from mothballs. The latter I know will never happen, so just worry about the first two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 (edited) Edited October 22, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 I don't think they are going to be able to sell a CG police cruiser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 The jackals are circling the aging Panther. Only a matter of time before one takes it down and the bloody feast begins. Will Ford inject new life into the once powerful cat before it's too late? (Rhetorical question - I think we all know the answer.) Don't kid yourself... The element of suspense involving the Panther platform grows everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Actually, the CVPI is pretty well adapted to police customers. Among other things, you can pick them up, at the dealership, with ballistic door inserts already installed. Ford has done a better job with many of its fleet customers (the LWB Crown Vic for the taxi market being another example) than it has with its retail customers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Actually, the CVPI is pretty well adapted to police customers. Among other things, you can pick them up, at the dealership, with ballistic door inserts already installed. Ford has done a better job with many of its fleet customers (the LWB Crown Vic for the taxi market being another example) than it has with its retail customers Ford has done well w/ it's F-series/truck customers as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rscalzo Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Ford has done well w/ it's F-series/truck customers as well. We pay 19.2 k for a Crown Vic PI. No one wants to buy a platform that includes everything already installed as the equipment (light bards, siren and consoles)are reused so that is a drawback. Turnaround cost on a new PI is around $1000 for new decals and equipment transfer. It might look great on paper but budgets are a big issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 We pay 19.2 k for a Crown Vic PI. No one wants to buy a platform that includes everything already installed as the equipment (light bards, siren and consoles)are reused so that is a drawback. Turnaround cost on a new PI is around $1000 for new decals and equipment transfer. It might look great on paper but budgets are a big issue. So retail pricing, qaulity, MPG, performance, and ergonomics are the big issue. If every cruiser had integral LED lighting and cost less the same or less than buying a car and lightbar separately it would be worth it? I don't know about you but that is the baddest looking cop car I have ever seen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rscalzo Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 So retail pricing, qaulity, MPG, performance, and ergonomics are the big issue. If every cruiser had integral LED lighting and cost less the same or less than buying a car and lightbar separately it would be worth it? I don't know about you but that is the baddest looking cop car I have ever seen! If that car went out the door at 21k and got 30 mpg it might sell. But I'm hearing a price way over that number so it probably will be dead in the water. The point I was making is the lightbars are used over a period of maybe ten years so they get rotated thrrough three or so cars. So the combined pricing is not valid except for the first purchase of the equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 If that car went out the door at 21k and got 30 mpg it might sell. But I'm hearing a price way over that number so it probably will be dead in the water. The point I was making is the lightbars are used over a period of maybe ten years so they get rotated thrrough three or so cars. So the combined pricing is not valid except for the first purchase of the equipment. Not necessarily true rscalzo. Many departments now are operating on what is called the "Cop Car" program. Under this program a police officer is assigned a car that he / she takes home and keep as their own patrol car. The car is therefore purchased, equipped and assigned to one officer and it stays with that officer for the duration of it's service life, typically about 110, to 130 thousand miles and then they sell them. When the car is done it is typically 4 to 6 years old and by that time the code equipment is no longer of any use and it's discarded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinb120 Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 (edited) I don't think they are going to be able to sell a CG police cruiser yup, its a friggin cartoon car. I don't see what's so incredible about it, and nothing looks conductive to real-world police work nor day to day minor damage common to police cars. Just. Plain. Silly. If I won it in Forza, I would just sell it, even if its only for 100 credits. Without using sourced engines, transmissions, driveaxles, suspension components, electronics and accessories it would cost a fortune. Hell it costs a fortune just to engineer a new dashboard in a long-existing vehicle. With parts sourced from a manufacturer willing to sell them in the first place, it would only cost a smaller fortune. For an independant company to completely start up to make a one-product line would mean it would have to be able to afford the ability to take a decade to reach a break-even point. Someone would have to non-stop spend millions with no return for a long, long time. The more I think about it, the dumber it looks as a whole. You can buy a perfectly good Vic or Charger in the low, low 20's. No bullshit, they wouldn't make money for less then $200k per copy if they just match a modern Vic's performance. Edited October 24, 2007 by kevinb120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 (edited) So retail pricing, qaulity, MPG, performance, and ergonomics are the big issue. If every cruiser had integral LED lighting and cost less the same or less than buying a car and lightbar separately it would be worth it? I don't know about you but that is the baddest looking cop car I have ever seen! Except for a Ford 427 (concept) or Interceptor police car! (which IMO would look good looking police cars ---they would intimidate drivers w/ their aggressive looks) Edited October 24, 2007 by rmc523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Except for a Ford 427 (concept) or Interceptor police car! (which IMO would look good looking police cars ---they would intimidate drivers w/ their aggressive looks) The Fusion FWD,and AWD is the offspring of the 427, and the 3.0 or even a 3.5 is not suitable for police work when your chasing RWD's with V-8's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 The Fusion FWD,and AWD is the offspring of the 427, and the 3.0 or even a 3.5 is not suitable for police work when your chasing RWD's with V-8's! Yeah, but the V8 chasing them right now is pretty slow, acceleration and top end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Yeah, but the V8 chasing them right now is pretty slow, acceleration and top end. You have never driven a Crown vic with a police interceptor package have you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 (edited) You have never driven a Crown vic with a police interceptor package have you? I'm actually going by the Michigan Police test numbers, stand by for link. MSP, USA Click the first link. The Impala does very well in the area we are discussing. Edited October 24, 2007 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 The Fusion FWD,and AWD is the offspring of the 427, and the 3.0 or even a 3.5 is not suitable for police work when your chasing RWD's with V-8's! I wasn't referring to it's 'offspring', I was referring to the actual 427 (or a production vehicle that looks like it b/c I'm not sure what type of engines, etc. the concept had) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewq4b Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 I'm actually going by the Michigan Police test numbers, stand by for link.MSP, USA Click the first link. The Impala does very well in the area we are discussing. Not bad numbers considering a 4 speed tranny and the old 2V 4.6. Of course It is going to be slower than the 5.7L Hemi it is giving up over a liter of displcment a cog in the tranny and 20 years of tech advancements. And their is a hell of a lot more to a PI unit than acceleration. The EPS here has Dissmissed all the other Auto's Labled as Police vehicles as thet CV is more suited over all. They have tried all others. After the last batch of impalas FWD was ruled out for good. And the couple chargers and magnums they tried failed miserably. This is just more proof that Panthers need updating they are not the fastest nor the most fuel effciant. But they are still the car of choice for most PD's. Time to seriously consider doing what should have been done years ago and give the cars a long over due conprehensive update. Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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