old_fairmont_wagon Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Lets not kid ourselves here, lets go down the list of minivans that are out there and look at just their base prices: Kia Sedona/Hyundai Entourage ~$25K (with about $1000-2000 in rebates available at times) can top out above $30K) [sWB sedona is cheaper, but uncommon) Dodge Grand caravan/Chrysler T&C (the SWB version is gone) ~$25K (around $1000 in rebates at present) Can top out around $40K Honda Odyssey LX MSRP around ~$26K (specials in the area for 2007s were $23K) can top out mid $30Ks. Toyota Sienna CE 7psgr ~$25K, can top out around $40 for the ltd with all the options Nissan Quest S ~$25K (around $1500 in rebates) tops out mid $30Ks. Judging by what I'm seeing on the road from the last two model years of these vehicle, the ASP on them must be around $30K. So, young families that are just starting out, which seems to make up at least half of these minivans on the road, are paying that much for these vehicles. Its not unreasonable to expect them to want to fork over $28K-$31K for the FLEX if it is truly a minivan replacement. Looking at three row SUVs (the ones that have third rows usable by human beings and not liliputians) their ASP is also in the neighborhood of $30K+. And, with the Freestyle\Taurus X currently buyable for around $25K, Ford has the lower end of that covered as well. This vehicle, and ford's CUV positioning in general is not off the current market. What will absolutely destroy this vehicle is Ford's usual inept marketing. I'm so glad that Ford's "media blitz" for the Taurus is in full swing. I've been watching some of the higher rated stuff on TV recently (NFL, Desperate Housewives, Grey's Anatomy, etc.) and I can't say that I've even seen ONE taurus or Taurus X commercial. According to demographic stuff that I've read, my family is not a-typical, save for having a kid and a half above average. So, here we are, typical family, typical viewing habits, typical income, and the only Ford Media I get exposed to on a regular basis is the two Taurus Safety radio spots "mommy will you love me forever?" and the other one like it. When we were looking to get a second people mover/minivan, I had to tell my wife that Ford still made the Freestyle/Taurus X as she thought the only things that they had with three rows were the explorer and the expedition. We took a look at it, but, the price was a bit out of our current budget (thanks, Katrina and the parish president) and she didn't like the back seat access. A minivan was just much more functional for us. Would we have looked at the Flex? Possibly, but, the price would have been a big hurdle for us now (though, it wouldn't have been had the last two years been quite different) and we still would have had issues with second row/third row access (no sliders and with the more traditional SUV/CUV floor that it has, it would not have been ideal. That look with sliders, however, and we might have been onto something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 And this big hoopla about pricing........judging from what I see on the road, and what a vast majority of people do these days (i.e. leasing). A 28K sticker doesn't seem so steep. Back when the Explorer was the end all of all SUVs, they weren't exactly cheap but Ford sure didn't have a problem selling 'em for that sticker either. The Explorer was the cheap SUV Michael, that's why it sold so well. It was cheaper then the 4Runner and the Pathfinder. The only thing cheaper was the Blazer. If all of these car companies are doing well selling cars at the prices they are, great, good for them. But it's true, the prices are high and there's no real reason for it aside from greed, especially where the japanesse brands are concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 The Explorer was the cheap SUV Michael, that's why it sold so well. It was cheaper then the 4Runner and the Pathfinder. The only thing cheaper was the Blazer. If all of these car companies are doing well selling cars at the prices they are, great, good for them. But it's true, the prices are high and there's no real reason for it aside from greed, especially where the japanesse brands are concerned. Well yes thats true for Japan, but when it comes to the Big 3, they can't afford to be any cheaper. I think that is self evident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 The Explorer was the cheap SUV Michael, that's why it sold so well. It was cheaper then the 4Runner and the Pathfinder. The only thing cheaper was the Blazer. If all of these car companies are doing well selling cars at the prices they are, great, good for them. But it's true, the prices are high and there's no real reason for it aside from greed, especially where the japanesse brands are concerned. It's not like car prices have just recently sky-rocketed. They've very closely followed the curve of inflation lately. The average vehicle now costs somewhere around $27,000. Asking a few grand more for a vehicle that has capabilities and size far beyond your "average vehicle" is hardly arguable. And the Explorer really wasn't really that cheap. Yes, you could get a stripped down base model for next to nothing, but those accounted for a VERY SMALL portion of Explorer sales. Back when I worked for a dealer (1997-98 during the Explorer's top years) we hardly ever stocked ANY Explorer XL's....and only a few XLS's when the '99's were hitting lots. They were mostly highly-optioned XLT's or Eddie Bauers, and an occasional Limited, with stickers WELL north of $30K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 And the Explorer really wasn't really that cheap. Yes, you could get a stripped down base model for next to nothing, but those accounted for a VERY SMALL portion of Explorer sales. Back when I worked for a dealer (1997-98 during the Explorer's top years) we hardly ever stocked ANY Explorer XL's....and only a few XLS's when the '99's were hitting lots. They were mostly highly-optioned XLT's or Eddie Bauers, and an occasional Limited, with stickers WELL north of $30K. And everytime you turned around they were throwing money on the hood. Look people didn't suddenly start buying Japanesse cars for no reason, it's because gas shot up. Ford's bread and butter in the recent past when things were so good was the Explorer. It sold well because it was cheaper then it's competition, that's fact. If customers could have gone and bought a 4Runner for what they could pay for an Explorer bet your ass they would have and Ford would have been in the same predicament it's in now back then only it would have been 4Runners instead of Camry's eating their lunch. Your average 4Runner on the lot at a Toyota dealer was fetching somewhere in the 33 to 37K range. Meanwhile you could get a well equipped Explorer for about 30. Ford had the cheapest SUV around at the time and that's what made it popular, case closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 (edited) And everytime you turned around they were throwing money on the hood. Look people didn't suddenly start buying Japanesse cars for no reason, it's because gas shot up. Ford's bread and butter in the recent past when things were so good was the Explorer. It sold well because it was cheaper then it's competition, that's fact. If customers could have gone and bought a 4Runner for what they could pay for an Explorer bet your ass they would have and Ford would have been in the same predicament it's in now back then only it would have been 4Runners instead of Camry's eating their lunch. Your average 4Runner on the lot at a Toyota dealer was fetching somewhere in the 33 to 37K range. Meanwhile you could get a well equipped Explorer for about 30. Ford had the cheapest SUV around at the time and that's what made it popular, case closed. Hmmm...why wasn't Suzuki selling 20 million Sidekicks a year? Or what about the Rodeo? They should have sold a billion of those. Jeep Cherokee? Every man and woman in America should have had one. After all, they were all cheaper than the Explorer. The Explorer was POPULAR. THAT is why it sold so well. Price might have had PART to do with WHY it was popular, but it was hardly the main reason. Edited October 31, 2007 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I get this feeling that people think two things on here...all new Fords are ugly and overpriced.....whatever... Not to mention that the Flex pricing isn't set in stone, you can go back to the site a couple different times and the prices will be different! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joihan777 Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 did you ever price out any minivan or a full size crossover? do so - the Flex is no more expensive. Igor My minivan cost me $28k 2 years ago.. It was the middle trim level but with most of the bells & whistles of the high trim level. All the leather & electronic goodies aren't going to add up to $40k. I said it from experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 (edited) My minivan cost me $28k 2 years ago.. It was the middle trim level but with most of the bells & whistles of the high trim level. All the leather & electronic goodies aren't going to add up to $40k. I said it from experience. Toyota Sienna Your Summary Model AWD, 3.5-Liter V6, Limited 7-passenger, 5-Speed Automatic $3,355 MSRP Options * 50 state emissions [FE] * Daytime running lights [RM] * High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps and Dynamic Laser Cruise Control [3] [HZ] * Limited and Limited AWD Extra Value Package #2 [11]-includes JBL Synthesis® AM/FM with 4-disc in-dash CD changer, satellite radio capability [8], MP3/WMA capability, ten speakers and two in-glass antennas with FM diversity reception, DVD navigation system [9] with backup camera [10] and Bluetooth® [4] wireless technology, rear-seat DVD entertainment system with 9-inch display, two 115V outlets and two wireless headphones [12] [QL] * Towing Prep Package [1]-3500-lb. towing capacity with heavy-duty radiator, heavy-duty fan, 150-amp alternator and power-steering oil cooler [TO] Color $220 MSRP Exterior: Arctic Frost Pearl Interior: Stone Leather Base MSRP:* $37,665 Destination & Handling:** $685 Options & Accessories: $3,575 Total Combined:*** $41,925 You think not? This is toyota.com, not canada Edited November 1, 2007 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 ^^I assume that is the Sienna given the specs and options. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 ^^I assume that is the Sienna given the specs and options. Igor Sorry, thought is said that somewhere. Fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Toyota SiennaYour Summary Model AWD, 3.5-Liter V6, Limited 7-passenger, 5-Speed Automatic $3,355 MSRP Options * 50 state emissions [FE] * Daytime running lights [RM] * High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps and Dynamic Laser Cruise Control [3] [HZ] * Limited and Limited AWD Extra Value Package #2 [11]-includes JBL Synthesis® AM/FM with 4-disc in-dash CD changer, satellite radio capability [8], MP3/WMA capability, ten speakers and two in-glass antennas with FM diversity reception, DVD navigation system [9] with backup camera [10] and Bluetooth® [4] wireless technology, rear-seat DVD entertainment system with 9-inch display, two 115V outlets and two wireless headphones [12] [QL] * Towing Prep Package [1]-3500-lb. towing capacity with heavy-duty radiator, heavy-duty fan, 150-amp alternator and power-steering oil cooler [TO] Color $220 MSRP Exterior: Arctic Frost Pearl Interior: Stone Leather Base MSRP:* $37,665 Destination & Handling:** $685 Options & Accessories: $3,575 Total Combined:*** $41,925 You think not? This is toyota.com, not canada BOFers will flame the Flex to hell, just like the Escape because it isn't a BOF, doesn't have a V8, oh and they don't like how it looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 BOFers will flame the Flex to hell, just like the Escape because it isn't a BOF, doesn't have a V8, oh and they don't like how it looks. Flex would probably make as good a hearse as a Town Car though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joihan777 Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Toyota SiennaTotal Combined:*** $41,925 You think not? This is toyota.com, not canada Hey, I just checked the site too. You're right. One can get a totally pimped out Sienna for $42k. Mine cost ~$27500, but the MSRP with all the options was ~$33k. So yeah, point taken and thanks for the clarification. I still think Ford should introduce the Flex, comparitively equipped, for $2-3 USD less simply because more people trust the perceived quality of the Sienna. A promise from Ford that it's a great car doesn't mean much to the average US consumer. Thanks a lot U.S. liberal media. A fantastic warranty would help too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Hey, I just checked the site too. You're right. One can get a totally pimped out Sienna for $42k.Mine cost ~$27500, but the MSRP with all the options was ~$33k. So yeah, point taken and thanks for the clarification. I still think Ford should introduce the Flex, comparitively equipped, for $2-3 USD less simply because more people trust the perceived quality of the Sienna. A promise from Ford that it's a great car doesn't mean much to the average US consumer. Thanks a lot U.S. liberal media. A fantastic warranty would help too. What helps is the positive data from CR and JD Power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joihan777 Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 What helps is the positive data from CR and JD Power. That's the rub. Flex is an all-new car. CR & JD can't shed light on the subject for a while. That's why I said the Flex should be offered ~$2-3 less than Sienna. A fantastic warranty would help people shop Ford again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 That's the rub. Flex is an all-new car. CR & JD can't shed light on the subject for a while. That's why I said the Flex should be offered ~$2-3 less than Sienna. A fantastic warranty would help people shop Ford again. What I mean is the good data about other Ford products. People will come to trust them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Flex would probably make as good a hearse as a Town Car though. Better! The Flex is already a box on wheels...no fab needed. Just take out the rear seats and add some curtains to the windows. Hey, I think we have found the Flex's intended market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joihan777 Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 What I mean is the good data about other Ford products. People will come to trust them. I think so too. In order for that to happen sooner, though, the media needs to be unbiased; they need to report the good news instead of focusing on the mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 I think so too. In order for that to happen sooner, though, the media needs to be unbiased; they need to report the good news instead of focusing on the mistakes. Your right about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenCaylor Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 From SEMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Better! The Flex is already a box on wheels...no fab needed. Just take out the rear seats and add some curtains to the windows. Hey, I think we have found the Flex's intended market. I think the vehicle Rocks...and aftermarket is going to have a field day.....vehicle is functional as all out...bet you see a BUNCH with surfboards atop, slightly customised or in my case road bikes....to be able to transport 6 or 7 in COMFORT and NOT look like a Soccer mum and actually have a semi COMFORTABLE 3rd row seat ( UNLIKE the Expedition, Explorer, taurus X...) and take a bunch of friends somewhere outdoorsy ,,,,,,,,,,that hits a pretty much UNTAPPED market.....unless one drops 14k on a Quigley conversion.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 waiting for the Outlaw Offroad version///hahahahaha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05fordgt Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 (edited) Those on here who are flaming the Flex to hell because of the prices listed on FordFlex.com, I have one word for you...RELAX!!! Those are NOT the real prices. I say this from experience, as this is exactly what they did when the Fusion was 1st shown, and that is publish options with prices, to see the consensus on what people would want. I remember pricing out a loaded SEL on the Fusion survey and it was over $30,000, but when the car came out, the most a Fusion could cost at start was $26,445. I have a good feeling the Flex will come in lower than the survey. Maybe tipping $40,000 with all options. We will soon find out. Edited November 2, 2007 by 05fordgt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 (edited) Those on here who are flaming the Flex to hell because of the prices listed on FordFlex.com, I have one word for you...RELAX!!! Those are NOT the real prices. I say this from experience, as this is exactly what they did when the Fusion was 1st shown, and that is publish options with prices, to see the consensus on what people would want. I remember pricing out a loaded SEL on the Fusion survey and it was over $30,000, but when the car came out, the most a Fusion could cost at start was $26,445. I have a good feeling the Flex will come in lower than the survey. Maybe tipping $40,000 with all options. We will soon find out. My price of $28,700 for a base SE model came from http://www.fordvehicles.com/flex/build/. The SEL (whatever that means), starts at $32,790 And the Limited starts at $37,000 and tops out at $45,400 for the AWD model. And, surprisingly, SYNC is *NOT* standard on the Limited. Edited November 3, 2007 by P71_CrownVic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.