Deanh Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 The problem is that this should not be a dealer burden only. The benefits of offering special orders benefit both the dealer and Ford. But the risk is solely on the dealer. The risks and rewards need to be shared. If Ford had kicked back a few points on this, or provided free flooring, then it would have been a speed bump instead of a wreck. And I think that customers should bear some cost of the deal gone wrong, but you are right that it never happens... What I do know is that you have to pass the cost of dealing with idiots on to the rest of your customers. Deanh, Mullaly is suggesting a change that is going to have a negative impact on the customer and the dealer. When was the last time you heard some one say "WOW, I really like that store, their selection is really limited, they really don't have many choices to offer"? the scary part is that they have you believing that this is all in your best interest. Your automatic reaction is that anything that might improve the customer experience is going to come at the expense to the dealer. (There is probably a whole chapter to be written on just how that reaction developed...) I think this has gone off track a bit....there is no negative impact, CUSTOM orders are a minute part of overall business.....my point is there are options that SHOULD be deemed standard, for example there are 15 pages when it comes to Superdutys....and hundreds of individual items. package them...piece of cake...ie Tow package, consists of Hitch, backup sensors, towcammand and trailer brakes package instead of EACH item having to be ordered seperately. Nav systems, DVD systems should be plug and play at set prices, vehicles should ALL be pre-wired for a simple dealer installation at said set pricing. Moonroofs should only be avail in top of the line versions along with Leather. XLT'S and up should have power seats, cruise / tilt and 6 CD's as STANDARD...all these indivdual seperate options are just mind-blowingly un-necessary and confusing to customers....everything needs to be simplified and become USER friendly...... and if vehicles are built in more similar manners then customers are MUCH more likely to find something they like on the lot, not get annoyed as hell running from dealer to dealer..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 How about having my cake and eating it too? Have two parallel systems. One is the "package" style system, where you can get 4 or 5 options packages on top of a base car, and that's it. The next is a custom system, where you need to special-order your car from the factory, but every option is stand-alone (including powertrains), and you pay a $100 fee to use this system. That way, 98% of customers use the package system, but you also can sell cars to the other 2% without screwing everyone else over. like I said what the order falls thru......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goingincirclez Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 (edited) Here's the way I would package options: Power group (essentials): Locks, Windows, Mirrors, Seats - stuff that's standard on 98% of cars anyway. Power Group 2 (gimmiks): Memory seating/mirrors adjustments. Folding seats, power doors/liftgates as applicable. Automatic gimmicks lights group: Auto headlights, auto Climate control, puddle lamps, overhead lights, etc. Minor safety & convenience add-ons: Fog lights, adjustable pedals, block heater, rain-sense wipers, rear a/c, etc. In addition to the above packages, the following options are available PACKAGE FREE AND REGARDLESS OF TRIM LEVEL Stereo upgrades are NOT tied to any other package (may be included but do not require one). Wheel upgrades are NOT tied to any other package (may be included, but do not require one). Sunroofs are NOT tied to any other package (may be included, but do not require one). Seating surfaces are NOT tied to any other package (may be included, but do not require one). If leather, heated seats are an extra option NOT tied to other stuff. Extra airbags are NOT tied to any other group (may be blah blah blah) Major safety components like ABS, RSC, T/C and the like are NOT tied to any group. Should be standard when possible to begin with. Suspension, drivetrain, body appearance kits can denote the base trim-level offerings. So therefore all numbered options then have a flat, consistent price regardless of what model (S, SE, SEL, Limited, WTF) you are adding them to. And there's no confusion about "Well the SEL has this this and this standard for $x,xxx more but we'd have to add these options so should we get the EddieB for $z,zzz more instead'? If you can't offer drivetrain choices (D3s) then screw the model trim names and just add options. THAT will eliminate a lot of consumer confusion and frustration right there! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Now those were as few packages as makes sense to me: trying to account for wiring, relays, harnessess, and the like that should be modular. Also what makes sense to be lumped together based on function and popularity. But I guarantee those are also my subconscious personal preferences. So if you don't agree with my groupings, you can see why "fewer packages" is a bad idea. It doesn't matter what everyone else is doing. Edited October 30, 2007 by goingincirclez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 and sub-plot...I DID custom order my own car...Mini S if u don't know yet, and THEY have the packages down as well....Sports package included yadda yadda yadda.....Handling package included yadda yadda yadda.....didn't need leather...upgraded to Harmon Kardan...blah blah blah....it was SIMPLE/ UNDERSTANDABLE and a HOOT!.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xr7g428 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 See DeanH, here is the problem, it's not spelling, it is math. Let's take your examples: then let em go, these are the people that will NEVER be happy about anything, they can stand in a corner and hold their breath and throw tantrums, but they are an EXCEEDINGLY small part of the market. You really must have too many customers. Keep in mind, these people are not walking. They are going to buy from some one. And these throwaway customers are the ones you know about. How many never graced you door? One in twenty is 5%... for every person that takes offence to being unable to order their Mocha Crappachino with soy milk and non-bleached sugar, there are 15 that will order straight from the menu as it is easier and less confusing..... So lets say you are willing to pass on that one out of 15. Well, that is 6.66% of the market. What would an additional 6% of the market mean to Ford? Seems like I recall that 1% is worth a couple of plants... Some one will know the right answer to this? Mullaly is approaching this as if the bottle neck that is limiting sales, is dealers that don't have enough time to talk to customers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 (edited) See DeanH, here is the problem, it's not spelling, it is math. Let's take your examples:You really must have too many customers. Keep in mind, these people are not walking. They are going to buy from some one. And these throwaway customers are the ones you know about. How many never graced you door? One in twenty is 5%... So lets say you are willing to pass on that one out of 15. Well, that is 6.66% of the market. What would an additional 6% of the market mean to Ford? Seems like I recall that 1% is worth a couple of plants... Some one will know the right answer to this? Mullaly is approaching this as if the bottle neck that is limiting sales, is dealers that don't have enough time to talk to customers... moot point if the choices are limited and content was there to begin with don't you think.?....still want that GT500 with an auto? I will mention two manufacturers whom have been VERY successful with this "Packaging" concept for YEARS....Honda, Toyota.... and we have time to talk to customers no problem....but 4000 different options to discuss is PAINFUL for BOTH parties.....people are all about conveinience and ease today...THEIR time is of precedence..........heres the novelty..."I want cruise, tilt, 6 disc.....etc etc "...."Well sir/ madam...thats all standard.........your options are the Lux package, or the Sports package or the .....they include these options specific to each" Edited October 30, 2007 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Ford needs to offer customers less options? Wait did he say offer less options? Oh brother, this company can't figure out why it's in the shitter as it is and it's answer is to pull the flush handle. That's because the flush handle is already broken and they can't figure out how to open the lid of the toilet and reach down into the water and flush it the other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Mullaly is approaching this as if the bottle neck that is limiting sales, is dealers that don't have enough time to talk to customers... I think Mullaly is approaching this as a cost savings period. If every option on say an F150 can be gathered into a set of 4 or 5 option packages , then he is seeing the savings in the labor/material flow on the factory floor. If he sees all these options as limiting sales, he's less of a businessman/marketer than I ever gave him credit for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xr7g428 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 and sub-plot...I DID custom order my own car...Mini S if u don't know yet, and THEY have the packages down as well....Sports package included yadda yadda yadda.....Handling package included yadda yadda yadda.....didn't need leather...upgraded to Harmon Kardan...blah blah blah....it was SIMPLE/ UNDERSTANDABLE and a HOOT!.... I love you man! You can give us the straight shot from the dealer perspective and then when it comes to picking out your own car, you get all customer on us! So you do get it! Sure, they have packages, but hey, what color are your outside mirrors, or maybe you did chrome, or the checkered flags, ? Which dash did you do? I think there are like 6 different ones... When you build your own Mini, the first tag line is Mini: NO TWO A LIKE, followed by the Currently calculating 10, 000,000 (TEN MILLION) combinations! It IS easy, and fun, and I will just about guarantee you that every one ends up adding a bunch of stuff that they never would have known about other wise. I don't even like the Mini, and I end up wanting to buy one just because the car ends up being so cool and exactly what I like. So, the most consistently profitable car company in the world, BMW (no losses in 30 plus years?), seems to have this figured out. Maybe there is somebody else besides Toyota in the business after all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I love you man! You can give us the straight shot from the dealer perspective and then when it comes to picking out your own car, you get all customer on us! So you do get it! Sure, they have packages, but hey, what color are your outside mirrors, or maybe you did chrome, or the checkered flags, ? Which dash did you do? I think there are like 6 different ones... When you build your own Mini, the first tag line is Mini: NO TWO A LIKE, followed by the Currently calculating 10, 000,000 (TEN MILLION) combinations! It IS easy, and fun, and I will just about guarantee you that every one ends up adding a bunch of stuff that they never would have known about other wise. I don't even like the Mini, and I end up wanting to buy one just because the car ends up being so cool and exactly what I like. So, the most consistently profitable car company in the world, BMW (no losses in 30 plus years?), seems to have this figured out. Maybe there is somebody else besides Toyota in the business after all... not really...I just wondered why Ford was adamant about being able to order cars WAY too many ways....and I loved it because I DIDN"T have too many choices...it was simple and I had to wait 9 months anyway due to a waiting list! Nothing customer about that, in fact if anything it underlines my point...DON"T give too many choices ( mini has a total of how many options...now times it by 10 for a Ford product ), it makes the process simple and enjoyable....as for exterior mirrors...that can be done AFTER the purchase, but keep the Union Jacks etc for Austin Power wannabees...all my stuff is under the hood...moohoohahahaha!.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I think Mullaly is approaching this as a cost savings period. If every option on say an F150 can be gathered into a set of 4 or 5 option packages , then he is seeing the savings in the labor/material flow on the factory floor. If he sees all these options as limiting sales, he's less of a businessman/marketer than I ever gave him credit for. exactly, and the assembly lines can be simplified and not Stop Start for our Starbux fuss-pots, quality goes up and Costs come down so content is more comprehensive at the same cost.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Switching people's minds onto the idea shouldnt be that hard to do if they can see savings in grouping options and accessories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 (edited) Switching people's minds onto the idea shouldnt be that hard to do if they can see savings in grouping options and accessories. right on.....how many people are going to say I "don't" want heated seats for free????? If you trim deviations of manufacturing and produce a mahority with the same specs eventually efficiency improves costs and quality, savings that can then be passed on to the end- users....ie....to build 100k of a widget is more cost efficient than say 2 dozen....for example....imagine how mush cheaper the GT40 could have been produced if on a regular assembly line with twice the capacity and less custom.......... Edited October 30, 2007 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 right on.....how many people are going to say I "don't" want heated seats for free????? Well that's good, because they won't be free you can count on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Today, we don't bat an eyelid when a vehicle comes with: Power steering, A/C, 4 wheel discs, CD players, ABS, Airbags, Stability control, Blue Tooth...... There's a whole raft that's become standard and built into the vehicle's price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 (edited) I just can't see Ford passing up on a veritable gold mine like options. They will cash in - don't worry about that. The consumer won't be able to see it as easily - that's all. Edited October 30, 2007 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Well that's good, because they won't be free you can count on that. bad example but hopefully you can get my gist..........ABS or something like that........one less box to check.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 bad example but hopefully you can get my gist..........ABS or something like that........one less box to check.... No I fully get your gist. The thing is, Ford is not going to bunch together a group of options into a package group and not charge you for those options. The end result will be that the the base price of the each model will go up as they add more features into package groups. You will have less ability to select options you like and remove options you don't like. You will have to pay for things you don't want. I don't see it as a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 No I fully get your gist. The thing is, Ford is not going to bunch together a group of options into a package group and not charge you for those options. The end result will be that the the base price of the each model will go up as they add more features into package groups. You will have less ability to select options you like and remove options you don't like. You will have to pay for things you don't want. I don't see it as a good idea. ahhhh, but they already do.Tow and go package, sun and sound package......both are free of charge....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 sun and sound package......both are free of charge....... Isn't it moon and tunes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Isn't it moon and tunes? don't rightfully know and too lazy to check, sun and sound...dammit! I'm checking, don't need a nother sleepless night...Sun and Sattelite...on Escapes....there we go.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 No I fully get your gist. The thing is, Ford is not going to bunch together a group of options into a package group and not charge you for those options. The end result will be that the the base price of the each model will go up as they add more features into package groups. You will have less ability to select options you like and remove options you don't like. You will have to pay for things you don't want. I don't see it as a good idea. I do see what you mean. I recall when I bought my "92 Sable. I didnt want top of the line. GS..but with 3.8L. At the time I didnt have power everything on my cars. So whatever pkg level it had, I wanted only rear defrost added. Guess what? Dealer said I had to get the 861A whatever # pkg for that. Well around $1400 retail later, 800+ A-plan, I had my defrost. I also had aluminum rims, pw, pl, and I think cassette. May have been a good value, but it didnt please me. I thought it was pretty stupid. This may improve costs but yes it will drive up out the door sales numbers. I am not so sure Ford's in such awesome demand right now to be confident it can do this AND increase sales #'s. Many people may just go elsewhere. Now if they, on the other hand , want to take a chunk of all the $$ saved from the coming contract and load up on these pkgs with no price increase we may see some increased sales and real pressure on the imports. But I dont think Alan thought process works this way. IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I do see what you mean. I recall when I bought my "92 Sable. I didnt want top of the line. GS..but with 3.8L. At the time I didnt have power everything on my cars. So whatever pkg level it had, I wanted only rear defrost added. Guess what? Dealer said I had to get the 861A whatever # pkg for that. Well around $1400 retail later, 800+ A-plan, I had my defrost. I also had aluminum rims, pw, pl, and I think cassette. May have been a good value, but it didnt please me. I thought it was pretty stupid. This may improve costs but yes it will drive up out the door sales numbers. I am not so sure Ford's in such awesome demand right now to be confident it can do this AND increase sales #'s. Many people may just go elsewhere. Now if they, on the other hand , want to take a chunk of all the $$ saved from the coming contract and load up on these pkgs with no price increase we may see some increased sales and real pressure on the imports. But I dont think Alan thought process works this way. IMO things have changed a little since 92....I doubt if there are any people now days that would even look SIDEWAYS at a Taurus ( the equivalent of your Sable in Todays terms ) with only a rear defroster as an option no power windows and locks etc....and now there is only one drivetrain.....certainly makes it easier from both the buyers and manufacturers standpoint no?...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 (edited) things have changed a little since 92....I doubt if there are any people now days that would even look SIDEWAYS at a Taurus ( the equivalent of your Sable in Todays terms ) with only a rear defroster as an option no power windows and locks etc....and now there is only one drivetrain.....certainly makes it easier from both the buyers and manufacturers standpoint no?...... The more things change the more things stay the same. Yesterdays basic options substituted for todays basic options, the scenario works out the same. Whereswaldo has a valid and accurate point. Edited October 30, 2007 by BlackHorse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 don't rightfully know and too lazy to check, sun and sound...dammit! I'm checking, don't need a nother sleepless night...Sun and Sattelite...on Escapes....there we go.... Well, I was wrong, I thought I remembered someone saying that, oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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