Deanh Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 The more things change the more things stay the same. Yesterdays basic options substituted for todays basic options, the scenario works out the same. Whereswaldo has a valid and accurate point. Perhaps...but in 92 there was 3 drivetrains on the taurus...one was a gawdawful 4 cylinder...2.5 I think.....plus....HAS to be cheaper all round to build one engine and one engine only....howeverI do I remember having too order my 5.0 Mustang LX in 88....but only because I couldn't find a 5 speed, so cases like THAT I can understand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxman100 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 (edited) I don't think people buy Toyota's and Honda's because the way the options are packaged - they buy them for their reputation, but that is another argument. I also find they are impossible to configure in a manner I care for, which is a big negative in buying one of them, at least to me. In 2000, Toyota offered my wife's Corolla with a power options package that did not require you to buy a bunch of extra crap, but I think they changed it shortly after that model year. What I don't like about Ford is you cannot get the color combinations you want - interior and exterior, etc., even if you order it from the factory. For instance, I plan on ordering one more Grand Marquis from the factory before Ford puts her down for good. The trouble is I want a base GS model with traction control, fog lights, heated outside mirrors, dual exhaust, and the rear air suspension. I'd like the black interior with either Norsea blue or white exterior. However, the only colors you can get with either exterior color is rental car light grey or rental car taupe. If I want the rear air suspension, you have to also order the $1,500 package that includes leather and aluminum wheels, of which I want neither - I plan on running chrome center caps and trim rings on the steelies. Also, forget about the dual exhaust and the 2.73 rear end - it is available only on export models for 2008. So under the current system, I cannot get the color, drivetrain, suspension, or wheels that I want, and all of them are sitting in the parts bins at the factory. Maybe I'm in the minority, but if I'm spending money on a new car and cannot get what I want when all the parts are available, I may as well save the money and buy a used car that will be just as close to what I want as a new one would be. Edited October 31, 2007 by taxman100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 For instance, I plan on ordering one more Grand Marquis from the factory before Ford puts her down for good. The trouble is I want a base GS model with traction control, fog lights, heated outside mirrors, dual exhaust, and the rear air suspension. I'd like the black interior with either Norsea blue or white exterior. The fact that you want a car like this shows that your in the minority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 The fact that you want a car like this shows that your in the minority. Yeah, get in line with the rest of them taxman!!! How dare you think outside the box and want something different. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Yeah, get in line with the rest of them taxman!!! How dare you think outside the box and want something different. lol That's not what I meant. Ford has to sell to the majority, not the minority. Most people like a simple buying experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Most people like a simple buying experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Huh.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 It's a dunce hat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 It's a dunce hat. I see. I don't see whats really lazy or stupid about it. If it works for other companies, why not Ford? Thats not to say I don't love all the options, because I do. I just know that mot people are not like us (those of us visiting this site). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 No customer buys directly from the factory. Why do I see people requesting orders and all excited that "oooh oooh oooh it made blend date" and "oooh oooh oooh it's on the railway transport now!" and etc. etc. They aren't picking out cars from the dealership if it's not even built yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 If it works for other companies, why not Ford? Stupid is as stupid does. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 things have changed a little since 92....I doubt if there are any people now days that would even look SIDEWAYS at a Taurus ( the equivalent of your Sable in Todays terms ) with only a rear defroster as an option no power windows and locks etc....and now there is only one drivetrain.....certainly makes it easier from both the buyers and manufacturers standpoint no?...... True in many ways. My point was only about insisting on having the rear defrost( Michigan) but having to pay several hundred dinero to get it. And the only engines on this car where the Vulcan 3.0 and Essex 3.8 V-6's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 No customer buys directly from the factory. Maybe that should be the only way. Bypassing the dealer would probably double Ford's market share. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Maybe that should be the only way. Bypassing the dealer would probably double Ford's market share. LOL see you in Detroit when you want a test drive or hands on explanation of features, financing, warranties, option packages , maintenence requirements, service appts.....I do hear they are developing a car seed, all you do is plant it and water....dependent on how well you look after the vehicle with frequent fertilizing you can end up with an XLT or Lariat..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 True in many ways. My point was only about insisting on having the rear defrost( Michigan) but having to pay several hundred dinero to get it. And the only engines on this car where the Vulcan 3.0 and Essex 3.8 V-6's. I have nightmares about a 2.5 somewhere, may have been earlier....PIG was a compliment.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 True in many ways. My point was only about insisting on having the rear defrost( Michigan) but having to pay several hundred dinero to get it. And the only engines on this car where the Vulcan 3.0 and Essex 3.8 V-6's. Certain things should just be STANDARD on ALL trim lines of EVERY vehicle made today: Anti-lock brakes Electronic stability control Side airbags Power windows/locks Rear defroster Air conditioning Who the heck DOESN'T want those options? The very few who don't really don't justify making them cost options and complicating assembly/ordering. Hopefully Mulally will err more on the side of caution and make MORE equipment standard as opposed to doing some sort of ridiculous stripper model and then adding things in huge (expensive) option packages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Certain things should just be STANDARD on ALL trim lines of EVERY vehicle made today: Anti-lock brakes Electronic stability control Side airbags Power windows/locks Rear defroster Air conditioning Who the heck DOESN'T want those options? The very few who don't really don't justify making them cost options and complicating assembly/ordering. Hopefully Mulally will err more on the side of caution and make MORE equipment standard as opposed to doing some sort of ridiculous stripper model and then adding things in huge (expensive) option packages. on the money nick....although a featureless sub 3200lb 6 speed performance mustang doesn't sound bad............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goingincirclez Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I wonder if my "suggestion" got lost in the xr7 / deanh banter a few pages back? What do you folks think of something like this? Here's the way I would package options: Power group (essentials): Locks, Windows, Mirrors, Seats - stuff that's standard on 98% of cars anyway. Power Group 2 (gimmiks): Memory seating/mirrors adjustments. Folding seats, power doors/liftgates as applicable. Automatic gimmicks lights group: Auto headlights, auto Climate control, puddle lamps, overhead lights, etc. Minor safety & convenience add-ons: Fog lights, adjustable pedals, block heater, rain-sense wipers, rear a/c, etc. In addition to the above packages, the following options are available PACKAGE FREE AND REGARDLESS OF TRIM LEVEL Stereo upgrades are NOT tied to any other package (may be included but do not require one). Wheel upgrades are NOT tied to any other package (may be included, but do not require one). Sunroofs are NOT tied to any other package (may be included, but do not require one). Seating surfaces are NOT tied to any other package (may be included, but do not require one). If leather, heated seats are an extra option NOT tied to other stuff. Extra airbags are NOT tied to any other group (may be blah blah blah) Major safety components like ABS, RSC, T/C and the like are NOT tied to any group. Should be standard when possible to begin with. Suspension, drivetrain, body appearance kits can denote the base trim-level offerings. So therefore all numbered options then have a flat, consistent price regardless of what model (S, SE, SEL, Limited, WTF) you are adding them to. And there's no confusion about "Well the SEL has this this and this standard for $x,xxx more but we'd have to add these options so should we get the EddieB for $z,zzz more instead'? If you can't offer drivetrain choices (such as on the D3s) then screw the model trim names and all that "this includes this, that one includes that" BS, and just leave it to al-la-carte options. THAT will eliminate a lot of consumer confusion and frustration right there! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Now those were as few packages as makes sense to me: trying to account for wiring, relays, harnessess, and the like that should be modular. Also what makes sense to be lumped together based on function and popularity. But I guarantee those are also my subconscious personal preferences. So if you don't agree with my groupings, you can see why "fewer packages" is a bad idea. It doesn't matter what everyone else is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I wonder if my "suggestion" got lost in the xr7 / deanh banter a few pages back? What do you folks think of something like this? Here's the way I would package options: Power group (essentials): Locks, Windows, Mirrors, Seats - stuff that's standard on 98% of cars anyway. Power Group 2 (gimmiks): Memory seating/mirrors adjustments. Folding seats, power doors/liftgates as applicable. Automatic gimmicks lights group: Auto headlights, auto Climate control, puddle lamps, overhead lights, etc. Minor safety & convenience add-ons: Fog lights, adjustable pedals, block heater, rain-sense wipers, rear a/c, etc. In addition to the above packages, the following options are available PACKAGE FREE AND REGARDLESS OF TRIM LEVEL Stereo upgrades are NOT tied to any other package (may be included but do not require one). Wheel upgrades are NOT tied to any other package (may be included, but do not require one). Sunroofs are NOT tied to any other package (may be included, but do not require one). Seating surfaces are NOT tied to any other package (may be included, but do not require one). If leather, heated seats are an extra option NOT tied to other stuff. Extra airbags are NOT tied to any other group (may be blah blah blah) Major safety components like ABS, RSC, T/C and the like are NOT tied to any group. Should be standard when possible to begin with. Suspension, drivetrain, body appearance kits can denote the base trim-level offerings. So therefore all numbered options then have a flat, consistent price regardless of what model (S, SE, SEL, Limited, WTF) you are adding them to. And there's no confusion about "Well the SEL has this this and this standard for $x,xxx more but we'd have to add these options so should we get the EddieB for $z,zzz more instead'? If you can't offer drivetrain choices (such as on the D3s) then screw the model trim names and all that "this includes this, that one includes that" BS, and just leave it to al-la-carte options. THAT will eliminate a lot of consumer confusion and frustration right there! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Now those were as few packages as makes sense to me: trying to account for wiring, relays, harnessess, and the like that should be modular. Also what makes sense to be lumped together based on function and popularity. But I guarantee those are also my subconscious personal preferences. So if you don't agree with my groupings, you can see why "fewer packages" is a bad idea. It doesn't matter what everyone else is doing. Your proposal would leave Ford with an even MORE complicated order process than they have NOW. VERY few options should be offered a-la-carte. All of those separate options means it would be VERY unlikely that a customer would find exactly what they are looking for on the lot. Offering defined trim levels with different levels of standard equipment simplifies that significantly. Now, a couple of stand-alone options like navigation, 18" wheels, or moonroof wouldn't be too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarShark Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Who the heck DOESN'T want those options? The very few who don't really don't justify making them cost options and complicating assembly/ordering.That would be the enthusiast section, the relatively small yet disproportionately LOUD portion of American car culture. They rail against stability control and traction control as somehow removing the fun from driving and say that airbags and other safety equipment just add weight. I can't count the number of times I've read a statement like that and rolled my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goingincirclez Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 See, the thing is those Trim-level packages are what's so damn complicated. Because that's how you end up having to pay for Leather seats and the "SEL base price" just to get the premium stereo or other BS. The ONLY thing that a trim level base price should be based on is powertrain. So essentially you make the initial decision: do you want a 4, 6, or 8 cyl engine, with or without AWD or manual or whatever? When it comes to options, the things I hear most people complain and get picky about wanting / excluding are the numbered things, which you seemed to agree with: Stereo, Wheels, Sunroof, etc. With the possible exception of the sunroof, all of the others should be installable on any random car coming down the line at the time. So it should not be that hard for a customer to get what they want exactly how they want it. As for my other "packages", yes that is a fine line between complexity of chioce, versus including a bunch of crap people don't want to pay for. The best I could do in theory was to group them somewhat logically. But you may as well use a dartboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 That would be the enthusiast section, the relatively small yet disproportionately LOUD portion of American car culture. They rail against stability control and traction control as somehow removing the fun from driving and say that airbags and other safety equipment just add weight. I can't count the number of times I've read a statement like that and rolled my eyes. unfortunately all those safety items seem to have been forced by A)insurance agencys, B) Attourneys and the cost of settlements C) Idiotic drivers not trained in DEFENSIVE driving techniques D) Brainwashing into the merits of SAFETY. I'm with you, its gone WAAAAY over the deep end, a lot more lives would be saved if people were trained to DRIVE safely and teens weren't allowed cars over 50hp till their 20th birthday, cell phones were JUST PLAIN BANNED in cars etc etc etc....society only has itself to blame for the constant barragement of safety items and the costs going skyward...they are here now and are NOT going away....there is still a little hope though...most manufacturers supply on off switches for their drivers aids.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 With the possible exception of the sunroof, all of the others should be installable on any random car coming down the line at the time. So it should not be that hard for a customer to get what they want exactly how they want it. Yes, it's not ridiculously more complex to assemble them, but what you DON'T want is 90% of your customers being unable to find a common package they like that is ALREADY on the lot. Ford shouldn't have to special order every other vehicle to have it custom built to please the customer. By redundant and repetitive packaging, Ford would be able to group together more vehicles with the exact same options. Sure, some vehicles may end up with MORE equipment than the customer wants, but by building them in enough volume, that shouldn't make nearly as much of an impact on the price. Very rarely will a customer complain about having TOO MUCH content in a vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goingincirclez Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Very rarely will a customer complain about having TOO MUCH content in a vehicle. True enough on one level... On the other hand, how many times have we heard "They're wanting to charge HOW MUCH for that?!" on this forum?? :rolleyes: Like Blackhorse said: nothing is really "free", even if it IS "standard". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 True enough on one level... On the other hand, how many times have we heard "They're wanting to charge HOW MUCH for that?!" on this forum?? :rolleyes: Like Blackhorse said: nothing is really "free", even if it IS "standard". Certainly not free, but through consistent packaging of content, the price demanded for that content can be reduced to some extent due to logistical savings on the production end. You would also end up with fewer oddballs rotting on dealer lots that were configured with some funky option combination that nobody finds appealing. In the long run, that saves money as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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