Deanh Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 True enough on one level... On the other hand, how many times have we heard "They're wanting to charge HOW MUCH for that?!" on this forum?? :rolleyes: Like Blackhorse said: nothing is really "free", even if it IS "standard". only big tickets are things like NAV, DVD, Wheels, Moonroofs and stereos right? all the rest is nickle and dime in comparison...sure it adds up.....but packaging them and passing the savings on back to the customer is the way to go...like I've stated...barring sunroofs, if all vehicles are wired EXACTLY the same ( saves $ to have but ONE wiring harness no? ) then the rest could be plug and play if desired.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goingincirclez Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I don't think we're that far apart. I agree with most of what you say, actually. So let me clarify my position: I think that having "standard packages" is a good thing... But confusion and expense would be eliminated by having so many trim level option/exclusion packages. Just make everything modular, and simplify the "trim level badge choices" to powertrains. Ford and its dealers are still able to build and stock the "most common" configurations and sell them at the prices that such scale affords. But the "shell game" is eliminated. And furthermore they won't be aggravating (and losing sales from) those customers who still choose to be picky: by having a more "modular" options system, said customers can order what they like... and it should not be too terribly tough (read: expensive) for Ford to accommodate them in a timely fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I don't think we're that far apart. I agree with most of what you say, actually. So let me clarify my position: I think that having "standard packages" is a good thing... But confusion and expense would be eliminated by having so many trim level option/exclusion packages. Just make everything modular, and simplify the "trim level badge choices" to powertrains. Ford and its dealers are still able to build and stock the "most common" configurations and sell them at the prices that such scale affords. But the "shell game" is eliminated. And furthermore they won't be aggravating (and losing sales from) those customers who still choose to be picky: by having a more "modular" options system, said customers can order what they like... and it should not be too terribly tough (read: expensive) for Ford to accommodate them in a timely fashion. Well, assuming the modular option packages make sense, I agree with you. Would be relatively simple to keep such package combinations in stock on dealer lots as well. And dammit Ford, make floor mats standard already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goingincirclez Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 only big tickets are things like NAV, DVD, Wheels, Moonroofs and stereos right? all the rest is nickle and dime in comparison...sure it adds up.....but packaging them and passing the savings on back to the customer is the way to go...like I've stated...barring sunroofs, if all vehicles are wired EXACTLY the same ( saves $ to have but ONE wiring harness no? ) then the rest could be plug and play if desired.... That's exactly what I said. I left all the "big ticket" stuff as numbered options. The other stuff can still be separated somehow as I tried to approximate - or hell make it ALL standard for all I care. Just keep in mind if it all becomes standard, then you get people complaining "Well it's not 2002 anymore and the average price of a C car is now $29,000...." which may or may not be good either. But if someone wants a stripped-down Focus with crank windows and manual locks, but leather seats becuase they're easy to clean.... if Ford offers those features and stocks those parts, there is NO reason why that customer should not be able to order that car. The way it is now, they'd have to drop the coin to get the upgraded Focus with a bunch of extra stuff that he doesn't care about, just to get the one feature he DOES want. Sure, said customers are in the VAST minority. But Ford needs all the customers it can get, no? Why should that potential customer (AND his money) be made to feel unwelcome? That's where I'm trying to go with this. And yes "a modular wiring harness" would be a big step in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Well, assuming the modular option packages make sense, I agree with you. Would be relatively simple to keep such package combinations in stock on dealer lots as well. And dammit Ford, make floor mats standard already. no floormats....CLASSIC!.........THAT is an expected and sometimes missing option....stupid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Stock floor mats are a waste of money. Aftermarket is the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goingincirclez Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Stock floor mats are a waste of money. Aftermarket is the way to go. Only if you get the custom-fit ones. Seriously, by the time you get the cheap mats from Pep Boys or wherever that "almost" fit, and self-destruct in two years, you'd have been better off with the Factory set to begin with. Been there, done that. Got the expensive floormats next time. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 (edited) Stock floor mats are a waste of money. Aftermarket is the way to go. Why? If I want floormats, I should be able to get floormats. I don't change my floormats with aftermarket floormat parts -- how many people do? Heck, I don't know anyone who does -- they're still rolling around with their original 1990's floormats. (It's Arizona so I understand snow and wet isn't getting onto the floormats unlike other areas of the nation) Edited October 31, 2007 by Roadrunner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarShark Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 unfortunately all those safety items seem to have been forced by A)insurance agencys, B) Attourneys and the cost of settlements C) Idiotic drivers not trained in DEFENSIVE driving techniques D) Brainwashing into the merits of SAFETY. I'm with you, its gone WAAAAY over the deep end, a lot more lives would be saved if people were trained to DRIVE safely and teens weren't allowed cars over 50hp till their 20th birthday, cell phones were JUST PLAIN BANNED in cars etc etc etc....society only has itself to blame for the constant barragement of safety items and the costs going skyward...they are here now and are NOT going away....there is still a little hope though...most manufacturers supply on off switches for their drivers aids....I think you misread my statement. I'm NOT in favor of cars not having safety equipment. I think most safety equipment is brilliant, and undoubtedly have saved lives. I was saying that enthusiasts are being unreasonable when they say that safety equipment has no merit, and THAT'S what makes me roll my eyes. I do agree with you that a better defensive driving course would go a lot further in reducing accidents. The 50hp suggestion you made is really out there. No cars sold in the U.S. come with less than 50hp, so unless there is an easy chip change or mod, I don't see how that's feasible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Ford needs to add exterior colors and real wheel upgrades for every trim level. I would love to order base F150's with 18 or 20" wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I think you misread my statement. I'm NOT in favor of cars not having safety equipment. I think most safety equipment is brilliant, and undoubtedly have saved lives. I was saying that enthusiasts are being unreasonable when they say that safety equipment has no merit, and THAT'S what makes me roll my eyes. I do agree with you that a better defensive driving course would go a lot further in reducing accidents. The 50hp suggestion you made is really out there. No cars sold in the U.S. come with less than 50hp, so unless there is an easy chip change or mod, I don't see how that's feasible. sorry I meant 500hp no, actually I deliberately exadgerated the point........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 But if someone wants a stripped-down Focus with crank windows and manual locks, but leather seats becuase they're easy to clean.... if Ford offers those features and stocks those parts, there is NO reason why that customer should not be able to order that car. He/she should only be able to order THAT combination if he/she pays cash for it up-front, because if he/she backs out of that order, it's going to be collecting dust on a dealer lot somewhere for a LONG time. Manual locks/windows are stone age these days. It would simplify manufacturing and design to not offer them at all. The people who would WANT manual windows/locks are miniscule. Some will settle for them now if they are cheaper, but do they really WANT them? Most don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goingincirclez Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 He/she should only be able to order THAT combination if he/she pays cash for it up-front, because if he/she backs out of that order, it's going to be collecting dust on a dealer lot somewhere for a LONG time. Manual locks/windows are stone age these days. It would simplify manufacturing and design to not offer them at all. The people who would WANT manual windows/locks are miniscule. Some will settle for them now if they are cheaper, but do they really WANT them? Most don't. Well that was just an example, and perhaps extreme at that, but I think you see my point. If the parts are in the bin: BUILD WHAT THE CUSTOMER WANTS. Who gives a crap about what "trim level badge with these trimmings first" it should be. (Although for one as odd as that, I agree a 50% non-refundable deposit should be mandatory, ha ha). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Well that was just an example, and perhaps extreme at that, but I think you see my point. If the parts are in the bin: BUILD WHAT THE CUSTOMER WANTS. Who gives a crap about what "trim level badge with these trimmings first" it should be. (Although for one as odd as that, I agree a 50% non-refundable deposit should be mandatory, ha ha). Well, I think part of the problem is that TOO MANY parts are still in the bin. Completely basic options like manual windows/locks should flat out be eliminated and more components should be shared across model lines to make lower take options on the cheaper models more affordable. No reason every Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury can't use the exact same NAV screen for example. You can put nicer trim around it on the more expensive vehicles, but the actual LCD panel itself should be exactly the same in ALL applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 For you all bitching about floormats, Ford has mad all weather floor mats an option on just about every car they make. They list for about $75 bucks and will last the life the car since they are rubber. I got a set for my Mustang and they are great, just take them out and wash them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 For you all bitching about floormats, Ford has mad all weather floor mats an option on just about every car they make. They list for about $75 bucks and will last the life the car since they are rubber. I got a set for my Mustang and they are great, just take them out and wash them mad all weather tires? what made them angry?,,,,,lol, we were talking just da basics, some cars come sans ANY type of mats....BIG sorepoint..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Why? If I want floormats, I should be able to get floormats. Then you shall have them, but leave them as an option. I don't want to pay extra to have them as standard equipment when I don't use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Then you shall have them, but leave them as an option. I don't want to pay extra to have them as standard equipment when I don't use them. In Canada you don't get a vehicle without them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 (edited) Then you shall have them, but leave them as an option. I don't want to pay extra to have them as standard equipment when I don't use them. Then make them a delete option for credit. 99% of buyers want floormats and hate seeing that they are charged separately for them on the sticker. Edited October 31, 2007 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Fine with me. I'd rather spend the money on a set of Husky liners so the carpet looks like new when I go to sell it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Fine with me. I'd rather spend the money on a set of Husky liners so the carpet looks like new when I go to sell it. Or just buy another set of $10 floormats at Pep Boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarShark Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I think the best car that exemplifies what I'm thinking is the Honda Fit. It comes standard with ABS, airbags all around with occupancy sensors, power windows, mirrors and locks, and air con, plus other niceities. When it first came out with a price of over $14,000, some $2,000 more than the competition, the people at the pro-dom board I was at cracked up and said "They've priced themselves out of the market!" Now Honda can't build them fast enough. I know BlackHorse thinks this strategy will bring prices up, but I don't see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 (edited) I think the best car that exemplifies what I'm thinking is the Honda Fit. It comes standard with ABS, airbags all around with occupancy sensors, power windows, mirrors and locks, and air con, plus other niceities. When it first came out with a price of over $14,000, some $2,000 more than the competition, the people at the pro-dom board I was at cracked up and said "They've priced themselves out of the market!" Now Honda can't build them fast enough. I know BlackHorse thinks this strategy will bring prices up, but I don't see it. I say build a car as CHEAPLY as possible, no ABS, no Airbags...NOTHING...make the Yugo look like a Rolls,,,,force people to learn to drive for their own safety....funny, something like that would probably sell in boatloads...idiots like me that don't start a car in the morning trembling in fear about the cahnce of getting in an accident....would just mean signing a waiver upon purchase....i do the same thing on the golf course with lightning..... Edited October 31, 2007 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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