Focus Shifts to Lincoln from Mercury - Car News

[FordBuyer]

Mercury Brings in different customers which is great, WHY DOESN'T FORD CAPITALIZE ON IT?

 

 

I notice the Lincoln/Mercury dealership by me gets more conquest sales than the average Ford Dealer. I always see GM, Chrysler, and especially Honda vehicles in their used car dept. that they took in on trade-in for new Lincoln or Mercury. Milan, Mariner, MKZ, MKX seem to get a lot of conquest sales. Many of the young women you see driving Mariner probably turned in import to buy it. As for no bringing out more Mercury models....with limited new products and money I don't think Mercury is priority right now. Ford will probably make its decision about Mercury if and when Ford is healthy.

[RichardJensen]

Tell me, why does Lincoln have a freakin' truck?

Because the dealers asked for it. Didn't you know this?

[MKII]

Yeah. And those sales are GONE. They're not coming back.

You invest in products to the extent that it is profitable to invest them.

You say that as fact? You know for sure those Merc sales are GONE, and not coming back?

And what products would that be?

Can you be specific for once and name some actual profitable Ford product "you" would invest in?

[P71_CrownVic]

You say that as fact? You know for sure those Merc sales are GONE, and not coming back?

And what products would that be?

Can you be specific for once and name some actual profitable Ford product "you" would invest in?

Haven't you figured out yet that his word is gold? He'll blast us for having an opinion but his word, and only his word, is fact.

 

FWIW, if you have lost 260,000 sales over the past few years...the brand is dead and needs to take a dirt nap...especially when the whole brand is a badge job.

[suv_guy_19]

Haven't you figured out yet that his word is gold? He'll blast us for having an opinion but his word, and only his word, is fact.

 

FWIW, if you have lost 260,000 sales over the past few years...the brand is dead and needs to take a dirt nap...especially when the whole brand is a badge job.

 

 

Or, you could look at it this way. Mercury gives 140000 sales that are pretty much free for ford. No loss, with a moderate gain....sounds good to me.

[P71_CrownVic]

Or, you could look at it this way. Mercury gives 140000 sales that are pretty much free for ford. No loss, with a moderate gain....sounds good to me.

140K minus the fleet sales...remember.

 

So that leaves you just 120K if you remove just the GM fleet sales.

[suv_guy_19]

140K minus the fleet sales...remember.

 

So that leaves you just 120K if you remove just the GM fleet sales.

 

 

But according to you a sale is a sale. Like I said, any of the sales that come from Mercury are pretty much free.

[RichardJensen]

You say that as fact? You know for sure those Merc sales are GONE, and not coming back?

And what products would that be?

Can you be specific for once and name some actual profitable Ford product "you" would invest in?

Yeah. I say that as a fact. This is a shrinking market, and Mercury would have to take 250k+ (the equivalent of an entire assembly plant's worth of output) in units from entrenched competitors such as the Camry, Highlander, etc.

 

You figure out how to almost triple Mercury's market share in a shrinking market, and you can write your ticket anywhere in this business. YOU'RE the one that thinks this can be done, well you tell me how, why, what.....

 

 

----

 

And as for profitable Ford products? What are you nuts? I would do precisely what Ford is doing: increase component sharing, make incremental year over year improvements in all products, and I'd basically ignore the kvetchers.

[wescoent]

One thing is for sure.. the unibody Mountaineer and Explorer cannot get here fast enough. It doesn't really make much sense to give Mercury an Edge or Flex (at least until the MKX is differentiated more from the Edge). However, they do need a modern family hauler, a role that a unibody Mountaineer would fill nicely.

 

I'm absolutely convinced that Mercury would do very well with a C2 Focus variant, especially considering the more "premium" nature that small cars are adopting.

[Pioneer]

One thing is for sure.. the unibody Mountaineer and Explorer cannot get here fast enough.

 

Spoken by a person that will never buy one. I hope the Explorer never goes unit-body. The slight weight savings is not worth it, and will kill what it truly is.

[silvrsvt]

Spoken by a person that will never buy one. I hope the Explorer never goes unit-body. The slight weight savings is not worth it, and will kill what it truly is.

 

 

Then you'll just bash it because they didn't change it enough...:rolleyes:

[Biker16]

Sold to expectations the first year it was on the market, with minimal incentivizing, fleet volume, and advertising support.

 

Also was a darn sight better than the '04 Taurus.

 

Maybe that's the difference between the two of us. I'm realistic. You're..... well you know best what you are.

 

I don't expect miracles from Ford. I expect them to execute each launch better than the one before, I expect them to learn from their mistakes...

 

You.... again, you know best what you want from Ford. Perhaps you can enlighten the rest of us, as to how your intentions for Ford are more realistic than mine.

 

Or are you just here to kvetch? Sure seems like it most of the time, like when you're going on about how Ford 'needs to be reminded' of this and that. Pretty much pins you down as permanent kvetch on the board. You've basically said, with such comments, that you're only here to kvetch, or that you think that kvetching accomplishes something.

sales expectations.

 

108,000 in 2005

84,000 in 2006

 

you expect them to slowly slide into bankruptcy with average products and philosophy that ignores the niches where money can be made.

 

example of your thinking.

 

We can't put better materials and features in the Fusion because Ford isn't toyota and people don't pay for fords.

 

my philosphy is that we should put our best efforts out there. which is this.

 

not make excuses on why we can't sell stuff like this in the US.

 

excusing medicrity.

[P71_CrownVic]

But according to you a sale is a sale. Like I said, any of the sales that come from Mercury are pretty much free.

I think a sale is a sale. Your getting your product on the road.

 

YOU think otherwise, but did not take that into account when you threw the 140K out there.

 

It's funny, when you are talking about Mercury's total sales...fleet sales count, but when you are trying oh-so-hard to bash the Panther platform, "fleet sales don't count".

[suv_guy_19]

I think a sale is a sale. Your getting your product on the road.

 

YOU think otherwise, but did not take that into account when you threw the 140K out there.

 

It's funny, when you are talking about Mercury's total sales...fleet sales count, but when you are trying oh-so-hard to bash the Panther platform, "fleet sales don't count".

 

 

Ok throw away the fleet sales, I don't care, the retail sales are still nearly free.

[RichardJensen]

Blah blah blah Biker. Regardless of what I post, your mind is already made up.

 

 

Why not change your sig back to what you really think?

[630land]

Q: Um when has Mercury been a "real brand"?

 

Well, the 1950's when James Dean drove one in 'Rebel w/out a cause'. Mercs were popular cars to modify back then. Then the Comet and Cougar in the 1960's gave it some style. The big Marquis then defined it til now.

 

It had a good brand image until the 1990's, when L-M dealers started pushing cheap Topazes to get Tempo buyers and by then it was just a "Ford with fake light bar". The Tracer is long forgotten, but a Merc version of Focus may be needed now with higher gas $$ and CAFE.

 

Point is, if it is just more Topazes, don't bother anymore. Also, they do need to get rid of the 'old fart' image. Grand Marq is now the #1 "slow poke" car doing 45 on Interstates.

Edited November 26, 2007 by 630land

[armadamaster]

Mercury was selling 400,000 units a year not long ago. How many of those were Grand Marquis? How many of those were Tracers? The Grand Marquis is a sinking ship (no pun intended),

 

Here we go, now that Ford is "Crown Vicing" the Grand Marquis... it's instantly a sinking ship. One of the best owner loyalties (i.e. RETURNING buyers) of any car on the market foreign or domestic? Best selling Mercury EVER? Until the Jill Wagner commercials debuting EVERYTHING else in the Merc lineup, I was still seeing Grand Marquis ads on a regular basis. Oh....wait....I did see a Grand Marquis in a Jill Wagner ad....dressup as a cab get blown past by a Milan. It's not a sinking ship if Ford advertises it and updates it instead of "Rangering" it.

 

[silvrsvt]

One of the best owner loyalties (i.e. RETURNING buyers) of any car on the market foreign or domestic?

 

 

Too bad most of them will be dead in the next 5-10 years...and shouldn't be on the road in the first place!

[Biker16]

Blah blah blah Biker. Regardless of what I post, your mind is already made up.

Why not change your sig back to what you really think?

LOL

 

Awesome reply!!!

[Biker16]

again This could be mercury's lineup in 2010.

 

The S-Max:

The Galaxy:

The B-Max:

Kuga

 

Verve coupe Ala Reflex (Capri)

European version of the GRWD Sedan. Marauder

COUGAR

Replace the milan with a mid-sized coupe and Sedan/hatchback.

 

Make mercury Green

All mercurys use mild hybrid technology. ISG- integrated starter alternator.

Twin force Enigne either 2.5I4 TF with 220hp or 1.8l I4TF 170hp. Co2 HVAC.

 

The power-shift 6spd standard.

 

sourcing

AAI or Hermosillo for the Galaxy, S-max, and Cougar.

 

Chicago or STAP For Marauder

 

C-car plant - Kuga

 

B-car plant - Capri and B-max

 

NO more rebadged NA fords.

[silvrsvt]

NO more rebadged NA fords.

 

 

Well your shooting yourself in the foot right there....after 2010 or so, there isn't going to be NA Ford only platform left (outside trucks)...

 

Then not to mention all the extra money wouldn't make it worth while to do so since the profit margin would goto shit.

 

Maybe if you didn't notice before but RJ was pointing out that you have it stuck in your head that FOE is the solution to FNA problems..its NOT!

[RichardJensen]

LOL

 

Awesome reply!!!

Tell me why you deserve a better one.

[Biker16]

Well your shooting yourself in the foot right there....after 2010 or so, there isn't going to be NA Ford only platform left (outside trucks)...

 

Then not to mention all the extra money wouldn't make it worth while to do so since the profit margin would goto shit.

 

Maybe if you didn't notice before but RJ was pointing out that you have it stuck in your head that FOE is the solution to FNA problems..its NOT!

 

There is a difference between re badging and platform sharing. We are not using any standalone architectures, everything is in the family.

 

this is rebadging

 

this is not

 

So BOLD for emphasis GM can do it and they don't seem to have problems putting the extra money into their products why would ford.

 

 

Are you saying that we should continue to invest as little as possible into mercury, because we are afraid about our profit margins? I understand, I really do, I don't think we have to compromise a brand identity to make money.

 

FOE can't save Ford NA. unless you mean better Architectures, more cost effective production base and more efficient product development. they have nothing to offer Ford NA. because NA is a different contintnent.

 

I really don't think this product line is that hard to produce. We are using FOE products and re badging them mercury, except for the Cougar, which would have to be an re-skinned Mondeo/Fusion.

 

I have come to the conclusion that the Egde should not become the S-max, and the Escape should not become the Kuga. and Vice versa. they should share architectures but should fit the needs of their respective markets. I just don't see how the NA Fusion, or NA focus meets the needs of this market any better than the EU Mondeo or EU focus would.

[syrtran]

again This could be mercury's lineup in 2010.

 

The S-Max:

 

The Galaxy:

 

The B-Max:

 

Kuga

 

Verve coupe Ala Reflex (Capri)

 

European version of the GRWD Sedan. Marauder

I didn't see one vehicle there I would buy (well, maybe the Reflex, but - 3 seats??), and I am in their target demographic.

 

COUGAR

Replace the milan with a mid-sized coupe and Sedan/hatchback.

HELL, no. Two different target markets. Let's not have a repeat of the 80-82 Cougar sedan. I am also a Cougar fan and have been for 41 years.

 

NO more rebadged NA fords.

As opposed to rebadged EU Fords?

[syrtran]

There is a difference between re badging and platform sharing. We are not using any standalone architectures, everything is in the family.

 

this is rebadging

 

this is not

Do you realize that the Aura and Malibu look more alike from that angle than the Milan and Fusion do?