Focus Shifts to Lincoln from Mercury - Car News

[Biker16]

It iis obvious that Ford can't afford to dedicate the Resources to make mercury a real brand.

 

It is not sustainable to watch Lincoln devloping its own "top hats" and drive trains while mercury continues to be Fords with different paint and fascias .

 

Tis is what I believe could happen.

 

Mercury could become the alternative brand to ford.

 

There are products in the Ford stable that don't fit the Ford brand in north America. they could be sold under the mercury brand.

 

The S-Max: too Odd for Ford, and the edge works.

The Galaxy: Too small For ford and not a CUV

The B-Max: Tall wagon version of the Verve, Ford will have the Eco-Sport or whatever it will be called it is a CUV.

 

 

On the Car side

Verve coupe Ala Reflex

European version of the GRWD Sedan.

 

NEW COUGAR BASED ON THE EUCDII in both coupe and Sedan. to replace the Milan.

 

The idea would be to give mercury as many standalone products as possible as cheaply as possible.

 

Appealing to mercury's target audience Women, two stylish, 7 passenger people movers. and a stylish 5 seat B-wagon.

 

Car side you have a small stylish coupe, stylish coupe and sedan, and touring sedan to add testosterone to the brand a european touring sedan V8 power, because all women want power.

[silvrsvt]

It iis obvious that Ford can't afford to dedicate the Resources to make mercury a real brand. .

 

Um when has Mercury been a "real brand"?

 

Thought out most of its life its been nothing more then a Tarted up Ford...why would that change?

 

As for your proposal, where hell are these products going to be made at so they can make money on them? Anything from Europe isn't going to make any money due to the dollar's weakness...I don't see Saturn Astra ever making any money in the next couple of years if dollar keeps at its current strength.

[TStag]

Oh dear. Lincoln should have "Global aspirations". What like Cadillac does?

 

If Lincoln is going to replace Jag and Land Rover in Europe Ford is having a laugh. Lincoln as a brand is the equivalent of motoring poo over here. Why will Europeans give up their Premium motors, e.g Beemers and Audi's for Lincoln? Even Lexus sales are going down in Europe and their sales are really low. Toyota made a loss for a decade on Lexus in Europe why would lesser Lincoln do any better any quicker?

 

American premium cars ALWAYS bomb here. Stick with Volvo and forget Lincoln, either that or keep the Rover or Daimler badge and use one of them instead. DON'T DO IT FORD! No luxury US car brand has ever done it here.

[matthewq4b]

I think they are concentrating on Ford and the horribly neglected Lincoln Ford proper needs a premium brand the attention and resources Jag and LR usurped from Ford left Lincoln holding an empty bag so to speak.

I think the priority's are to get Lincoln stabilized and a presence back in the market place or at least on the road to one. When that is accomplished I think Mercury will get a harder look. If things do not turn around then there is a good chance that Mercury will get the axe.

If Ford manages to pull off a resurrected Lincoln and Ford cars start turning around then they will have the resources and cash to put in to Mercury and give it some direction and purpose.

I'm sure they do not want to chop it…. just yet. The brand has equity and potential. Once the GM is gone Mercury will be a very low volume nameplate. But it will be a blank sheet with equity and recognition in the market place and could be used to fill whatever gaps there are in the Ford and Lincoln line ups. I see Mercury as a specialty lower volume name plate from here on out probably what is should have been all along. Many attempts in the past were made to do just that but they were half hearted at best This would give Ford an avenue to test market stuff without the risk of dedicating large amounts of resources as well.

If Ford does not have the available cash to do this with Mercury then in all likelihood it will be chopped to insure the long term survivability of the Lincoln and Ford brands. But cutting it now could be a big mistake that could cost millions to rectify later on.

I think they are playing safe and taking a wait and see attitude before making a decision on whether to chop it or not.

 

Matthew

[TomServo92]

Oh dear. Lincoln should have "Global aspirations". What like Cadillac does?

 

If Lincoln is going to replace Jag and

Blah...

Blah...

Blah...

Blah...

 

Just like clockwork....

[P71_CrownVic]

Lincoln should have "Global aspirations".

 

My question is, with what? A bunch of FWD, V6, tarted up Fords with automatic transmissions? Umm...no. The new Mondeo is already better than the MKTaurus because it has a sweet looking interior and can be had with your choice of 10 different engine/transmission options. Plus it looks great.

[suv_guy_19]

My question is, with what? A bunch of FWD, V6, tarted up Fords with automatic transmissions? Umm...no.

 

 

I don't know, why don't you go ask Audi.

[RichardJensen]

Oooooooo. This is so much fun.

 

 

For once it's not the ugly American.

 

 

 

 

It's the ugly European.

 

TStag: Global does not = Europe. Global = Russia (ask any German if Russia is part of Europe), Middle East, India, Asia. Global = emerging and GROWING markets for luxury goods.

 

-----

 

 

Also, as to Lincoln going global luxury on the CD3 & D3 platforms instead of EUCD, any connoisseur of panthers is probably too numb in the fingers and posterior (either by birth or by usage) to be able to tell the difference between one and the other.......

[TStag]

Oooooooo. This is so much fun.

For once it's not the ugly American.

It's the ugly European.

 

TStag: Global does not = Europe. Global = Russia (ask any German if Russia is part of Europe), Middle East, India, Asia. Global = emerging and GROWING markets for luxury goods.

 

-----

Also, as to Lincoln going global luxury on the CD3 & D3 platforms instead of EUCD, any connoisseur of panthers is probably too numb in the fingers and posterior (either by birth or by usage) to be able to tell the difference between one and the other.......

 

If your not in Europe your not Global. The EU is a bigger single market than the US nowadays, with a currency that is fast catching the dollar up as the worlds reserve currency. Russia, China, India, etc are all emerging markets. But a Premium car maker needs to be in the US and Europe. Ford need to look at Lexus and ask why their sales just went down 3% and why they are smaller than Jaguar in Europe (a brand which has been in turmoil recently). The point is if Lexus is a flop in Europe what hope Lincoln?

 

Message to Ford drop the Lincoln name for Europe and go fo a European looking grill. Learn from Caddilac, who are struggling to get 3 sales a month in the UK (with a factory in Austria!). I'm not saying this because I dislike Lincoln I'm saying it because US premium car brands are serial failures here. We don't want Lincolns or Cadillacs we want BMW's, Audi's, Merc's, Volvo's and Land Rover's. I mean it's like selling Mcdonalds to the French!

 

Honest to God what is Mullaly trying to do to Ford? He's selling the profitable bit of PAG off for a song to possibly the next Hyundai, trying to turn Lincoln into a global brand, destroying Mercury at home and failing to restructure unprofitable Volvo. Doh. Bring back Ford junior he's got cars in his blood and it was his drastic cuts as Ford which will ultimately rescue Ford NA.

[P71_CrownVic]

Honest to God what is Mullaly trying to do to Ford? He's selling the profitable bit of PAG off for a song to possibly the next Hyundai, trying to turn Lincoln into a global brand, destroying Mercury at home and failing to restructure unprofitable Volvo. Doh. Bring back Ford junior he's got cars in his blood and it was his drastic cuts as Ford which will ultimately rescue Ford NA.

 

That what happens when you hire an airplane guy to run a car company.

 

Ford needs a car guy. I would say Jay Leno, but he probably wouldn't be happy with the pay cut.

Edited November 23, 2007 by P71_CrownVic

[P71_CrownVic]

I don't know, why don't you go ask Audi.

Audi's aren't Fords...

[NickF1011]

Anyone notice that SVT is confirmed to be back in business?

 

It wasn't ever really officially OUT of business...but....

 

:party:

[RichardJensen]

If your not in Europe your not Global. The EU is a bigger single market than the US nowadays, with a currency that is fast catching the dollar up as the worlds reserve currency. Russia, China, India, etc are all emerging markets. But a Premium car maker needs to be in the US and Europe

Can you summon even a sentence of proof for any of that? Or is that just the European equivalent of "America rulez da house y'all"?

[RichardJensen]

Except of course the "Europe is the biggest single market" remark which is true.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As long as you ignore the dozens of different languages, regulations, political divisions, and consumer preferences. Sure it's -just like- the U.S.

[syrtran]

I love the "Ford is killing Mercury" as much as I love the "Ford should sell cars built in Europe here" line of reasoning.

 

The idea is so simple. Ford should spend a fortune to reduce volume. It's so easy, you'd think they would've thought of that before.

Oh wait, they spent $6B-$7B a year on product development and lost over a million units of NA volume.

 

Fact is Ford will keep Mercury as long as it is an asset. Ford will not eliminate Mercury if it is a performing asset, they will eliminate it when it becomes a liability.

 

The people that claim to see behind what Ford is actually doing and saying probably believe that Dan Brown is a non-fiction writer....

 

Face it people. Ford is keeping Mercury as long as it is profitable. And Ford is doing what they should to keep it profitable. That is, they are not dumping a fortune into it, but are also not ignoring it.

 

DUH.

 

Heck. Ford is about the only car company that has done this right. GM screwed up Oldsmobile, and Chrysler, Plymouth. Just like acquisitions. Whatever Ford's transgressions with Jaguar, they pale in comparison to Saab: Born from Jets. Raised by Citations.

Sorry RJ, but what you seem to be missing with your "You're all wrong, Mercury is going nowhere" rant (which is entertaining, btw) is that Mercury does not stand alone. It is not a separate profit center within Ford. It is only a piece of the Lincoln Mercury division. It is simply a second brand being used as a marketing tool for Lincoln dealers. The profits are not Mercury's alone, they get combined with Lincoln's.

 

What MarFi clearly said (paraphrased) was "We Will Replace Mercury's Volume With Lincoln Vehicles". He said it, not the posters on this board. You are arguing with Mr. Fields. If he does this (which I doubt is possible), then there will be no need for Mercury.

 

The problem I have with this approach is that in order to get more volume for Lincoln, the cars will need to have a broader appeal. This will mean lower prices. This will mean less cachet for the brand at a time when Lincoln's cachet is actually increasing. This will destroy Lincoln as a premium brand. It will turn Lincoln into Mercury. This will kill the division's profits.

 

No, I don't believe MarFi has a clue. What Lincoln really needs to do is what it used to do - separate assembly lines from the lesser siblings, with more factory prep, kinda like a -real- premium brand. They need to move upmarket to directly compete with Lexus and BMW. Yes, I know, they also need to get their quality and reputation up there, but adding volume does exactly the opposite. The cars become more common and less desirable as a premium brand.

 

This is just a continuation of the screwed-up management that has run LMD down for the last decade.

 

For a good reference as to what will happen, see "Chrysler-Plymouth".

 

 

 

P.S. As to GM screwing up Olds, they finally realized that - just look at Saturn. Personally, I believed back then that they should have combined the two under the Olds brand.

[silvrsvt]

The problem I have with this approach is that in order to get more volume for Lincoln, the cars will need to have a broader appeal. This will mean lower prices. This will mean less cachet for the brand at a time when Lincoln's cachet is actually increasing. This will destroy Lincoln as a premium brand. It will turn Lincoln into Mercury. This will kill the division's profits.

 

Lets see:

 

Using Lexus as an Example:

 

ES Series

GS Series

IS Series

GX Series

LS Series

LX Series

RX Series

SC Series

 

Vs Lincolns line up:

 

MKZ

MKX

MKS

MK Flex

Town Car

Navigator

 

There are a whole bunch of other niches that Lincoln needs to fill, Like a Smaller SUV (The Kuga was supposed to do that but the value of the Euro killed that) a Sporty Sedan (MKR Hopefully) and even a coupe model can be added into that...thats where the "volume" is going to come from.

[TomServo92]

Audi's aren't Fords...

 

Neither are Mercurys (at least according to PCSario)

[RichardJensen]

You are arguing with Mr. Fields.

No, I'm not. Mercury's raison d'etre is to bring buyers to FoMoCo that Ford and Lincoln cannot. As long as it does this, it deserves to be supported. If you avoid reading between the lines, and read what is actually said it 1) makes a lot of sense, and 2) is quite practical.

 

Lincoln will be the volume player, as Mercury will be three or four models (three confirmed, one speculative), while the Lincoln lineup expands to 5-7 (MKZ, MKS, MKX, MKFlex, Navigator confirmed + alleged MKR & small ute & MKS+).

 

And that's fine.

[FordBuyer]

Neither are Mercurys (at least according to PCSario)

 

According to the boo birds on here, all of Ford's efforts be it the Fusion, F-150 and just about everything else is lame and will not succeed. So why worry about Ford at all. They are doomed as we know what Ford will be coming out with in next 18 months and none of them are any good. The 2009 Fusion has been written off by many on here, now the 2009 F-150, the new 2009 Flex is ugly, and the 2009 MKS is doomed before it ever hits the light of day. We might as well predict when Ford will declare bankruptcy. I figure the boo birds would predict failure for Ford product even as it was only on design board. Let's write off their products before they ever see production. So, what month and year will Ford declare bankruptcy? Ford can't pull new vehicles out of a hat and their fate is set in stone. They are going down in flames no matter how good their quality is.

[RichardJensen]

For a good reference as to what will happen, see "Chrysler-Plymouth".

Bah. Plymouth customers -were- Dodge or Chrysler customers. There was no difference in demographics.

 

Did you not read that article? Mercury customers are wealthier and are more often women. Why, oh, why on earth would Ford commit to killing off a brand that brings in those customers?

[Watchdevil]

Bah. Plymouth customers -were- Dodge or Chrysler customers. There was no difference in demographics.

 

Did you not read that article? Mercury customers are wealthier and are more often women. Why, oh, why on earth would Ford commit to killing off a brand that brings in those customers?

 

It's obvious there is still a market for Mercury as fashionably trimmed Fords. Not everyone is willing to cough up premium bucks for a loaded Lincoln when all some people are looking for is something a little more distinctive than a Ford yet is still a good value for the money. There are still people who have sensibilities to not overspend when they need to fulfill other priorities in life. Perhaps even the image of Lincoln is a little too mature and masculine for women. Mercury is starting to capture customers again the way they did back in the 70's. The difference now than in more recent years is that they have two good vehicles in the current best selling key segments, the Milan and Mariner.

 

If Mercury is regaining a popularity being a stylish alternative to a Ford then so be it. Moving Lincoln too far downmarket or matching everything Ford makes model per model is not the answer.

[DCK]

I love the "Ford is killing Mercury" as much as I love the "Ford should sell cars built in Europe here" line of reasoning.

 

The idea is so simple. Ford should spend a fortune to reduce volume. It's so easy, you'd think they would've thought of that before.

Oh wait, they spent $6B-$7B a year on product development and lost over a million units of NA volume.

 

Fact is Ford will keep Mercury as long as it is an asset. Ford will not eliminate Mercury if it is a performing asset, they will eliminate it when it becomes a liability.

 

The people that claim to see behind what Ford is actually doing and saying probably believe that Dan Brown is a non-fiction writer....

 

Face it people. Ford is keeping Mercury as long as it is profitable. And Ford is doing what they should to keep it profitable. That is, they are not dumping a fortune into it, but are also not ignoring it.

 

DUH.

 

Heck. Ford is about the only car company that has done this right. GM screwed up Oldsmobile, and Chrysler, Plymouth. Just like acquisitions. Whatever Ford's transgressions with Jaguar, they pale in comparison to Saab: Born from Jets. Raised by Citations.

I am going to jump in,

 

Who the hell cares if Ford spent 30 B a year on product development, what matters is the products that result in it, and Fords products that resulted from the 5-6B a year product developement were uncompetitive, bottom of the barrel, lets bargain bin price them shit boxes. (yeah I did take it too far) so who cares! They need to spend the money and develop class leading product. Mercury sales are reaching what? a 60% decline since the beginning of the decade? If Mercury was profitable, then why wouldn't Ford capitalize on that with product? Because Ford is stupid, they have shown they are stupid, if they weren't they wouldn't be in the situation. WHy wouldn't they throw some more bones at Merucyr if it was making a profit? Why? It costs them next to nothing rebadge a couple Fords as mercury's, so why aren't they even planning on doing that? Because Mercury is dead, and they are dead because of the past decade of no product.

[DCK]

Mercury customers are wealthier and are more often women. Why, oh, why on earth would Ford commit to killing off a brand that brings in those customers?

maybe you can ask Mark Fields?

 

I fail to see how anyone could think they aren't killing Mercury, Ford has Murdered lincoln and mercury but only decided to ressurect lincoln. No products for mercury and yet people here think Ford has a plan for them.

[silvrsvt]

or matching everything Ford makes model per model is not the answer.

 

Um why not? Lexus does it for the most part with its lesser Toyota platforms, with in reason. Thats whole point of having a shared platform.

[silvrsvt]

Because Mercury is dead, and they are dead because of the past decade of no product.

 

So let me ask you this, outside of the new edge Cougar (which could be argued that it was just a Ford Probe with a different name) and Capri convertible, in the past 10-15 years, when has Mercury had its own Unique product?

 

Everyone is saying Mercury needs product or doesn't have product...when for the most part it does already since its a trim level or new front and rear end on a current Ford product.

 

Another thing to point out...I'm going to say that this time next year, Lincoln Sales will be higher then Mercury sales, because if you look at the numbers now, its only a difference of about 30-40K units a year. That can be done by the MKS with no problems. Then add in the Mk Flex and MKR and it will def sell alot more then Mercury will...