waymondospiff Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 F-Series - 46,568 (-11.7%) Mark LT - 512 (-44.9%) Ram - 24,488 (-12%) Excalade EXT - 507 (-38.9%) Chevy Fullsize - 42,266 (-15.7%) Silverado - 38,122 (-14.1%) Avalanche - 4,144 (-28.3%) Sierra - 13,840 (-10.0%) Titan - 5,001 (+2.8%) Tundra - 14,988 (+43.2%) Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Tundra - 14,988 (+43.2%) Are people just stupid or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
range Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Are people just stupid or something? Tundra sales declined in November from October and they are on track to miss their sales goal (unless they throw even more money at them). Toyota is finding that the Tundra sells only when offered with huge cash rebates on the hood. ================================= From Automotive News 12/3 "But Toyota hit a few potholes last month. Sales of the new Tundra pickup fell. Toyota hinted that it might boost incentives on the big truck so that it can meet its goal of 200,000 sales this year. “We use incentives tactically to offer reasons to buy Toyotas at certain times of the month,” said Bob Carter, Toyota division general manager in a conference call Monday with reporters. “We still expect to sell 200,000 Tundras this year. It’s going to be close.” For that to happen, Toyota will need to sell 22,664 Tundras in December. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Tundra sales declined in November from October and they are on track to miss their sales goal (unless they throw even more money at them). Toyota is finding that the Tundra sells only when offered with huge cash rebates on the hood. ================================= From Automotive News 12/3 "But Toyota hit a few potholes last month. Sales of the new Tundra pickup fell. Toyota hinted that it might boost incentives on the big truck so that it can meet its goal of 200,000 sales this year. “We use incentives tactically to offer reasons to buy Toyotas at certain times of the month,” said Bob Carter, Toyota division general manager in a conference call Monday with reporters. “We still expect to sell 200,000 Tundras this year. It’s going to be close.” For that to happen, Toyota will need to sell 22,664 Tundras in December. " I know, I read your post in the other forum. Its just really stupid that that many more people are willing to buy the thing than did last year. I guess all the cash on the hood does help though. If they up the incentives too much more, they'll be paying people to take the Tundra off their hands lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
range Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 (edited) Hey, where's the Ridgeline, that paragon of Full Size trucks, on that list??? No mention of full size trucks is complete without mentioning Motor Trends Truck of the Year. Ridgeline 2,238 DOWN 36% :o Edited December 4, 2007 by range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 “We use incentives tactically to offer reasons to buy Toyotas at certain times of the month,” said Bob Carter, Toyota division general manager in a conference call Monday with reporters. “We still expect to sell 200,000 Tundras this year. It’s going to be close.” Denial, it ain't just a river in Egypt. For Toyota, tactical incentives are getting to be a round the clock thing. I saw incentive commercials for the Camry, Corolla, and Tundra wire to wire this month. Also, it should be some triumph for Toyota that they've managed to sell a brand spanking new truck for which they spent over a billion dollars on a new plant, in order to under utilize that plant, and their plant in Princeton, Ohio, all while selling said truck for an ATP that has to be within a whisker, if not below the previous model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waymondospiff Posted December 4, 2007 Author Share Posted December 4, 2007 Also, it should be some triumph for Toyota that they've managed to sell a brand spanking new truck for which they spent over a billion dollars on a new plant, in order to under utilize that plant, and their plant in Princeton, Ohio, all while selling said truck for an ATP that has to be within a whisker, if not below the previous model. In Toyota's defense, they made the decision to go with the new truck plant when truck sales were increasing year-over-year. If that had continued to happen they wouldn't be having any problems selling 200K of them. However, we all know what gas prices, the housing industry, and the overall economy are doing to truck sales. Now Toyota needs to figure out a backup plan for all it's capacity. Not in Toyota's defense - it wasn't exactly shocking to see the fullsize truck market fall this year. The trends have been pretty clear and any sound business plan would have had a suitable backup plan for a brand-new high capacity factory. Again in Toyota's defense, Ford did the same thing in the 90s and early 00s by concentrating on trucks and letting the car lineup get stale. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Hey, where's the Ridgeline, that paragon of Full Size trucks, on that list??? No mention of full size trucks is complete without mentioning Motor Trends Truck of the Year. Ridgeline 2,238 DOWN 36% :o I would like to know if Toyota is actually putting a hurt on them. You know, the person who will never touch a Domestic but always wanted a truck and the Honda just wasn't "truck" enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Are people just stupid or something? Yes, they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 In Toyota's defense, they made the decision to go with the new truck plant when truck sales were increasing year-over-year. If that had continued to happen they wouldn't be having any problems selling 200K of them. However, we all know what gas prices, the housing industry, and the overall economy are doing to truck sales. Now Toyota needs to figure out a backup plan for all it's capacity. Not in Toyota's defense - it wasn't exactly shocking to see the fullsize truck market fall this year. The trends have been pretty clear and any sound business plan would have had a suitable backup plan for a brand-new high capacity factory. Again in Toyota's defense, Ford did the same thing in the 90s and early 00s by concentrating on trucks and letting the car lineup get stale. Scott Toyota greenlighted this plant in 2003. I don't think we'd gotten to $3/gallon coast to coast by then, but California was there, IIRC. Fullsize truck boom end was definitely in sight-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waymondospiff Posted December 4, 2007 Author Share Posted December 4, 2007 Toyota greenlighted this plant in 2003. I don't think we'd gotten to $3/gallon coast to coast by then, but California was there, IIRC. Fullsize truck boom end was definitely in sight-- Fair enough. But if Ford has had that long where is our B-market car? Where is our all-new cost- & market-competitive C-market car? Where is our fuel-sipping hybrid? Why are sales stagnatting due to lack of "fuel efficient" products? Toyota was foolish to invest in a "truck-only" plant for the US market but that doesn't make their position, market coverage, and products any less enviable. Would we be talking about Ford "turn-around" plans had Ford been on the ball with a Fiesta, newFocus, Fusion hybrid, Edge, Flex, Taurus X, Taurus, new 4 cylinder engines, 6-speed transmissions, and perhaps a hot-looking RWD lineup (Mustang-based for cost purposes, of course.) two or three years ago? All of the automakers have been hurt by the shift away from trucks but to claim Toyota as the "example" of this doesn't seem logical. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford-150 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I would like to know if Toyota is actually putting a hurt on them. You know, the person who will never touch a Domestic but always wanted a truck and the Honda just wasn't "truck" enough. it shouldn't be cause the Titan is more of a truck than both the Ridgeline and Tundra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyb82 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Toyota greenlighted this plant in 2003. I don't think we'd gotten to $3/gallon coast to coast by then, but California was there, IIRC. Fullsize truck boom end was definitely in sight-- We didn't really reach $3 gas anywhere until Katrina. Back then, high gas prices meant approaching $2. http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/statisti...i_adjusted.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 (edited) I know, I read your post in the other forum. Its just really stupid that that many more people are willing to buy the thing than did last year. I guess all the cash on the hood does help though. If they up the incentives too much more, they'll be paying people to take the Tundra off their hands lol. It's not going to do much for their resale either! Edited December 5, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Watch out Ford, here comes Chevy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Watch out Ford, here comes Chevy. Ummm, the Silverado sales for the month were down more than the sales of the F150. You should have typed, Watch out Ford! Chevy's new truck is a few thousand sales behind your 4 year old one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Same numbers, for those who like charts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManFord Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Ford F-Series- November sales down 11.7% Ford F-Series- Year over Year down 12.4% Chevy Silverado- November sales down 14.1% Chevy Silverado- Year over Year down 3.3% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Ford F-Series- November sales down 11.7%Ford F-Series- Year over Year down 12.4% Chevy Silverado- November sales down 14.1% Chevy Silverado- Year over Year down 3.3% You would expect the Silverado's sales to be UP though, being that it is "all-new" and the F-150 is going on 4 years old. I'm guessing the F-series would have dropped considerably more if not for the new Super Duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManFord Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 You would expect the Silverado's sales to be UP though, being that it is "all-new" and the F-150 is going on 4 years old. I'm guessing the F-series would have dropped considerably more if not for the new Super Duty. Yeah, I think the Super Duty has helped Ford out this year. I think the refreshed F-Series could see some increases over this year, but time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 You would expect the Silverado's sales to be UP though, being that it is "all-new" and the F-150 is going on 4 years old. I'm guessing the F-series would have dropped considerably more if not for the new Super Duty. Theres is rapid growth going on in my city right now, and I see more 2008 super duties than nay previous year because of all the construction and heavy industry work. They are everywhere. I will meet 3 in a row from 3 different companies. They are snapping them up. People seem to be too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 (edited) Double Edited December 4, 2007 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I think the refreshed F-Series could see some increases over this year, but time will tell. I believe that may be possible, although I wouldn't be too optimisitic, given economic conditions, etc. Also, if there were an increase, I would expect it to be small, but as you said, only time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Tundra sales declined in November from October and they are on track to miss their sales goal (unless they throw even more money at them). Toyota is finding that the Tundra sells only when offered with huge cash rebates on the hood. ================================= From Automotive News 12/3 "But Toyota hit a few potholes last month. Sales of the new Tundra pickup fell. Toyota hinted that it might boost incentives on the big truck so that it can meet its goal of 200,000 sales this year. “We use incentives tactically to offer reasons to buy Toyotas at certain times of the month,” Yeah certain times of the month: Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays... :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Fair enough. But if Ford has had that long where is our B-market car? Where is our all-new cost- & market-competitive C-market car? Where is our fuel-sipping hybrid? Why are sales stagnatting due to lack of "fuel efficient" products? Toyota was foolish to invest in a "truck-only" plant for the US market but that doesn't make their position, market coverage, and products any less enviable. Would we be talking about Ford "turn-around" plans had Ford been on the ball with a Fiesta, newFocus, Fusion hybrid, Edge, Flex, Taurus X, Taurus, new 4 cylinder engines, 6-speed transmissions, and perhaps a hot-looking RWD lineup (Mustang-based for cost purposes, of course.) two or three years ago? All of the automakers have been hurt by the shift away from trucks but to claim Toyota as the "example" of this doesn't seem logical. Scott Well, seeing that Ford closed Norfolk even as Toyota was building San Antonio, it would seem Ford was more on top of things truck-wise than Toyota. Toyota's Tundra capacity, at this moment, is roughly 300,000 units; or capacity equivalent to Dodge. They added 240,000 units of capacity at the same time that Nissan relegated Titan to a flex plant, while Dodge was cutting shifts, GM holding flat, and Ford closing Norfolk. --- Furthermore, it is acknowledged within and without Ford that their decision making process has, shall we say, issues. With Toyota it would be hard to earn a hearing before one of the big bosses, if your talking points included "Here's how we screwed up the Camry (botched quality on launch), here's how we screwed up the Tundra (made it gigantic, spent $1.4B on a new plant), here's how we screwed up our green image (was it really necessary to lobby along with the Big Three--Toyota could've sat back and let Ford/GM/Chrysler get covered in slop), and on and on it goes, here's how we lost our "most favored manufacturer" status with Consumer reports, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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