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The Trouble with Lincoln

P71_CrownVic
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BORG

BORG

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WOW this is a tremendously uninformed rant. Making the connection between Lexus and Caddy pretty much ruins everything he said. Both companies have VERY different approaches to customers and their roll in the marketplace. Not to mention Lexus is not a global brand and emerged very gradually over time, while Caddy has had a very recent, expensive, and tenuous comeback.

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SVT_MAN

SVT_MAN

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Same old same old. Everybody here seems to cry foul at everything that Ford launches. Escape will be a failure. Focus will be a failure. Blah blah blah.

 

The funny thing is, a lot of people here (including me) also thought the Taurus would pick up a ton of sales. It seems we were .. slightly wrong :P The Taurus is an oddity to me. It's selling slower than the 500, which makes no sense.

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Loyalbutconcerned

Loyalbutconcerned

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Same old same old. Everybody here seems to cry foul at everything that Ford launches. Escape will be a failure. Focus will be a failure. Blah blah blah.

 

The funny thing is, a lot of people here (including me) also thought the Taurus would pick up a ton of sales. It seems we were .. slightly wrong :P The Taurus is an oddity to me. It's selling slower than the 500, which makes no sense.

 

 

Problem is most people who would have bough this car left the brand 2-3 years ago. I had a neighbor who wanted to upgrade from his 99 Taurus to one of these but jst could not handle the looks. He loved how it drove and liked the AWD capabilities but it was too bland for him in the 500 form. It is tough to win those Taurus loyalists back, especially in the short term.

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silvrsvt

silvrsvt

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I've seen so much more negative press for this car than positive press. Sure, the Detroit rags are optimistic, but others are less kind.

 

 

I really wonder at times, these been products that have been bashed by the Automotive press, yet do well in the market, and then there are cars totally lauded by the automotive press that don't do anything and are canceled in a couple years. I think its far easier to negative and be wrong, instead of being Negative and be totally correct about that negativity

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LincolnFan

LincolnFan

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It's a good thing that we have someone from Saudi Arabia to tell us what will and will not work in the NA market. I don't know what we'd do without that. :rolleyes:

 

We'll see, won't we? The MKZ may have gotten with being FWD. But the MKS won't, it represents everything wrong with Lincoln.

 

For crying outloud, they had to spell Lincoln in the interior so you can tell that you're in a Lincoln. Nothing about the interior says "Lincoln" at all, the MKZ atleast has an interior that makes you think Lincoln as soon as you open the door.

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suv_guy_19

suv_guy_19

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We'll see, won't we? The MKZ may have gotten with being FWD. But the MKS won't, it represents everything wrong with Lincoln.

 

For crying outloud, they had to spell Lincoln in the interior so you can tell that you're in a Lincoln. Nothing about the interior says "Lincoln" at all, the MKZ atleast has an interior that makes you think Lincoln as soon as you open the door.

 

 

Maybe this article should have been called, "The Problem With LincolnFan" :doh:

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Edstock

Edstock

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But the MKS won't, it represents everything wrong with Lincoln.

 

You're entitled to your opinion.

 

But, when you spout opinions like the one above, trashing a car you haven't seen and touched and haven't driven, with no facts to back your opinion, well, some of us might disagree.

 

Cheer up. The MKS will do fine, and it will get replaced by a successor vehicle in time, because it's not the Last Lincoln. And chances are, you won't like that one either.

 

Thanks for playing

 

bslogo1.jpg

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P71_CrownVic

P71_CrownVic

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Why are you stalking me? FYI, I am not that much interested in men.

:redcard::redcard::redcard::redcard::redcard::redcard::redcard::redcard::redcard:

Oh really??? Lets step into our "way-back" machine and go for a ride.

 

I posted this a while back:

gay.gif

 

Do you obsess about other men as much as you obsess about me?

 

And you came back with this...

 

Yes, why do you ask?

 

Hmmm...interesting.

 

Overkill.gif

Edited by P71_CrownVic
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TStag

TStag

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For me the question that the author of the original article did not ask is whether Ford see's Lincoln as a Volvo beater or as a BMW contender. Yet this is probably the key question. If you look at Lincoln's current market positioning then you can't claim they are competing with the competition from Germany, Japan and the UK (JLR). Their prices are too low and their cars not competitive. Just compare the Range Rover and the Navigator.

 

IF Ford plan to replace JLR with Lincoln then I think the plan is doomed from day one. As the author points out Lincoln wouldn't be taken seriously in Europe for at least 15 years (Lexus isn't taken seriously here) and it's models just aren't up to scratch. For Ford to take on the likes of BMW with Lincoln in countries like Germany and Britain would be like trying to lower the Atlantic to raise the Titanic!

 

But if Lincoln is to aim down market then I can see how they could be the answer in the USA to the likes of VW and Volvo. But that kind of begs the question, if you own Volvo why bother with Lincoln? Well I suppose if Volvo is moving upmarket to compete with the Germans, the Japanese and JLR then maybe bosses at Ford think Lincoln can plug the gap. The problem with this is that to do this Lincoln will have to grow massively from the handful of products it has now, it will also need to make cars that compete credibly with the likes of VW. That's a big gamble for a struggling Ford.

 

It strikes me that Ford is trying to get from A to B via the letter Z. By selling JLR they feel they need to plug the gap with Volvo. By plugging the gap with Volvo they feel the need to fill the space left by Volvo with Lincoln. But by moving Lincoln into Volvo teritory they risk killing Mercury, Lincoln and Volvo by making cars people don't accept (at this point the Jag X type springs to mind as an example of Jag trying to make a down market car). In truth Mercury may die anyway, but you have to question the wisdom of upsetting things at a recovering PAG to fix Lincoln.

 

You have to wonder why Ford is bothering with this plan. In Volvo they have a well established brand that with some new models and a new styling direction should sell well in it's existing sector. At Land Rover Ford has continued to build a world beater, it's making money and has more great cars on the way. At Jag things are starting to recover, the XF looks like it's going to be a hit. So why pump what could be billions into fixing Lincoln. Ford did make a mistake trying to fix Jag in the first place and should have steered clear but only a baffoon would now snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and give up on the turnaround at JLR, to then try and focus on turning around a domestic only brand with image problems. In otherwords Ford could easily pump billions into Lincoln to arrive at the same point they are now at with Jaguar! :banghead:

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RichardJensen

RichardJensen

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For me the question that the author of the original article did not ask is whether Ford see's Lincoln as a Volvo beater or as a BMW contender. Yet this is probably the key question.

 

At Land Rover Ford has continued to build a world beater, it's making money and has more great cars on the way.

1) Nobody at Ford should be asking that question. It is folly to aim at another brand's customers, instead of your own.

 

2) Land Rover is at the top of their cycle. They have (perhaps) a version of the Isuzu Amigo coming out, which should sell about as well as the original Amigo did. There are no other Land Rovers coming out, and from here the RRS, RR, and LR2 are going into the downward portion of their sales curve.

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TStag

TStag

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Posted (edited)
1) Nobody at Ford should be asking that question. It is folly to aim at another brand's customers, instead of your own.

 

2) Land Rover is at the top of their cycle. They have (perhaps) a version of the Isuzu Amigo coming out, which should sell about as well as the original Amigo did. There are no other Land Rovers coming out, and from here the RRS, RR, and LR2 are going into the downward portion of their sales curve.

 

1.) No but they need to aim at a price bracket. If you aim a baby SUV at the UK car market for £30,000 you compete with the LR2. If you aim at about £20,000 you compete with mainstream Nissan. £25,000 put's you in Honda territory. So you can not ignore the competition. Also Lincoln and Volvo should not operate in each other's price brackets. That's just common sense!

 

2.) "Isuzu Amigo" my ar*e! Baby Range Rover Sport more like. I think your getting confused with the baby SUV Volvo are planning to dump on the market. Let's hope they can find car parks big enough to fit them on with C30's also gathering dust. :)

Edited by TStag
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