So now that the Taurus flopped.

[Deanh]

Oh snap, it's the Ford cheerqueers! What a very unpleasent surprise!

 

It looks like the Cheerqueers have taken the case again to defend mediocrity and everything wrong with Ford! ... again!

 

Let's see what we have here:

They're climbing back up?! lol. So they're still not selling as much as the underpowered Five-Hundred in it's first year? The car just made it's debut, it's supposed to sell in higher numbers!!! LOOK UP THE 08 ESCAPE, 08 FOCUS FOR REFERENCE.

1st of all, you don't work for Ford.

Second of all, everytime I brought up the RWD Taurus you outright denied it. Stop making that up cupcakes.

Is it so hard for you cheerqueers to think like this guy? Yes, I bet it is.

Doing alright? If it was doing alright, why did they export it to ME? They never exported it pre-refresh.

 

All what the Taurus is doing right now is selling a wee bit (read 3 to 4 hundred) over the orginal boring, underpowered, equipped with CVT (which some people didn't like and turned away from the car thanks to it) Five-hundred. Where the freaking hell is the bright side, because I see no light in the end of the road for the Taurus.

a GOOD re-style will bring people in and the platform will be acknowledged for what it is, right now they just yawn at the showroom doors, and Ford pushing 5 stars as their campaign is pre-historic, that campaign would have been great 10 years ago but now safety is expected and DEMANDED...the Taurus is as good as if not better than a majority of the competition, a simple drive underlines the point, but the tepid styling does nothing to illicit excitement/ desire. So lets get the car that made Alan sob to market el pronto...and Linc...either they have / or you work at a Saudi Starbux or you ran out of meds...calm down chappy...theres only one PCsario.....

Edited December 12, 2007 by Deanh

[LincolnFan]

In Europe, where gas is too f-n high, you sure do not see a lot of RWD 'economy sedans'. Only the filthy rich are driving the RWD luxo and sports cars.

 

BMW 1-series? BMW's strategy in the US sucks, I give you that. But it's a RWD 'economy hatchback' that can handle the twisties nicely and it's cheap on the gas/diesel.

[Deanh]

Thank you, but too bad you will not be taken seriously because now you're considered the enemy.

Deanh, you work for a dealer, don't you? How's the Taurus selling in Cali?

we are sold out funnily enough...............................................but truth be told we only had 4 in inventory, just got an order for 3 from one company, unfortunately they are Cortesy out of state deliveries....those that drive the car are impressed...I bite my tongue when someone says they like hopw it looks....have stitches to prove it....

[LincolnFan]

a GOOD re-style will bring people in and the platform will be acknowledged for what it is, right now they just yawn at the showroom doors, and Ford pushing 5 stars as their campaign is pre-historic, that campaign would have been great 10 years ago but now safety is expected and DEMANDED...the Taurus is as good as if not better than a majority of the competition, a simple drive underlines the point, but the tepid styling does nothing to illicit excitement/ desire. So lets get the car that made Alan sob to market el pronto...and Linc...either they have / or you work at a Saudi Starbux or you ran out of meds...calm down chappy...theres only one PCsario.....

 

That's a step forward, atleast they didn't fall asleep at sight.

 

If that's so, why isn't it selling!? The Impala sells over 20K per month, yes 50% of that goes to fleet, that means 10K is being bought by real customers. A car that's on a 20 years old platform is crushing it in sales, the question that brings itself here is, WHY?!

 

Are you kidding me? Starbucks coffee sucks, I could drink it and then fall asleep after 5 minutes.

 

we are sold out funnily enough...............................................but truth be told we only had 4 in inventory, just got an order for 3 from one company, unfortunately they are Cortesy out of state deliveries....those that drive the car are impressed...I bite my tongue when someone says they like hopw it looks....have stitches to prove it....

 

So they're selling to fleets now? oh wait, it's ok because it isn't daily rent fleets. lulz.

 

Yeah, they drive it, they're impressed. Why aren't they writing the cheque?

Edited December 12, 2007 by LincolnFan

[NickF1011]

ad campaign agreed....one other word should be added...Styling....awful in anything but dark colors, this designer and the focus must have been swapping atrocities at the local during lunch hours and going back annebriated....good car but FROM BEHIND THE WHEEL....Taurus X's front end superior in ALL respects....

 

About that Focus....I can understand the gripes about the nose treatment, but after parking next to an '08 today with the side vents, I CAN'T see the big deal. The vents are relatively tiny (compared to what they appeared to be in the press photos for some reason) and add a spark of interest to an otherwise rather mundane side profile. I dare say they even looked somewhat nice.

[Deanh]

RWD does not automatically equal bad gas mileage. When you throw in a big V8 into the equation is when you see the mileage issues. A I4 or V6 powered RWD sedan can be just as economical as their FWD counterparts.

true story...but wasn't one of the major reasons for going FWD to improve interior space for Large Marge and her workers so more Big Macs could be transported back to the Office lunch? Sarcasm aside...Americans are a little "larger" than the average.....and i think the only way to transport them in anything smaller than an Excursion was to improve interior packaging...ie FWD. I will fess to being a proponent of RWD after ownership of several, they just appeal to my sense of driving dynamics...that said right now I have a FWD car that can attack the twisties with the best of them....

[jpd80]

On the subject of RWD Vs FWD Fuel economy, the Aussie Fairlane and the new Taurus are the best comparison. At 3850lb the Fairlane with 4.0 I-6 is heavier than the new Taurus but the reasons are obvious:

1. The inline 6 has an iron block

2. The wheelbase of the fairlane is 2" longer than the Taurus

3. Internally, the Fairlane has as much room as a Town Car.

4. Extra strength in the front structure to support length of I-6 and Torque of 5.4 V8.

 

On fuel economy, the Fairlane is only slightly worse than the Taurus but you get a lot more car,

internally, Fairlane is approaching Town car proportions.

 

Rather than having the Falcon, why not replace the Town car with an American designed Fairlane/LTD. That makes far more sense to me.

[Deanh]

About that Focus....I can understand the gripes about the nose treatment, but after parking next to an '08 today with the side vents, I CAN'T see the big deal. The vents are relatively tiny (compared to what they appeared to be in the press photos for some reason) and add a spark of interest to an otherwise rather mundane side profile. I dare say they even looked somewhat nice.

perhaps i am a little over the top when it comes to critiquing styling due to a background in Illustration and design...it IS my hot button, and it IS what generates showroom traffic and BUZZ. BUT bias aside I dare anyone to say that the masses are brought into showrooms by anything higher on the desire sweepstakes than said subject....and since its release I have yet to see ONE person salivating over what I consider an insult to car designers worldwide...drives great, just wear sunglasses with the mirrors on THE INSIDE!

[BlackHorse]

true story...but wasn't one of the major reasons for going FWD to improve interior space for Large Marge and her workers so more Big Macs could be transported back to the Office lunch? Sarcasm aside...Americans are a little "larger" than the average.....and i think the only way to transport them in anything smaller than an Excursion was to improve interior packaging...ie FWD. I will fess to being a proponent of RWD after ownership of several, they just appeal to my sense of driving dynamics...that said right now I have a FWD car that can attack the twisties with the best of them....

 

Well, just one note about your post here. If you look around the market, the vehicles with the most interior room are RWD.

 

The 300, Crown Vic, Expedtion, Explorer, Tahoe, CTS, and like that. Typically FWD sedans tend to be midsize or compact cars. Only FWD minivans could be included on your list as having a roomy interior but frankly even then if you compare a FWD minivan to a RWD full size conversion van, the RWD one wins again.

[LincolnFan]

On the subject of RWD Vs FWD Fuel economy, the Aussie Fairlane and the new Taurus are the best comparison. At 3850lb the Fairlane with 4.0 I-6 is heavier than the new Taurus but the reasons are obvious:

1. The inline 6 has an iron block

2. The wheelbase of the fairlane is 2" longer than the Taurus

3. Internally, the Fairlane has as much room as a Town Car.

4. Extra strength in the front structure to support length of I-6 and Torque of 5.4 V8.

 

On fuel economy, the Fairlane is only slightly worse than the Taurus but you get a lot more car,

internally, Fairlane is approaching Town car proportions.

 

Rather than having the Falcon, why not replace the Town car with an American designed Fairlane/LTD. That makes far more sense to me.

 

Oddly enough, LTD used to stand for "Lincoln Themed Design".

 

However, we shouldn't compare the LTD to the Taurus, it should be compared to the MKS, which weighs over 4000 pounds, so the LTD does weigh less than the Lincoln. But if I go this way, I will go off-topic in my topic..

 

If we had the Fairlane, we would have the SHO at launch using the TF6 or Australia's BOSS290, something that will make the wannabes in their 300C SRTs piss their pants, oh yeah with great handling to boot. (lol Mercedes' are made to float and wobble like jelly, not handle)

[Deanh]

That's a step forward, atleast they didn't fall asleep at sight.

 

If that's so, why isn't it selling!? The Impala sells over 20K per month, yes 50% of that goes to fleet, that means 10K is being bought by real customers. A car that's on a 20 years old platform is crushing it in sales, the question that brings itself here is, WHY?!

 

Are you kidding me? Starbucks coffee sucks, I could drink it and then fall asleep after 5 minutes.

So they're selling to fleets now? oh wait, it's ok because it isn't daily rent fleets. lulz.

 

Yeah, they drive it, they're impressed. Why aren't they writing the cheque?

curiously enough no, they aren't fleet customers. One thing everone forgets is that due to NATIONWIDE ( regardless of manufacturer ) sales are WAAAAY down, so to counter this Dealers are not replenishing inventories and THUS the Manufacturers have cut down production...its a huge domino effect reflective of the economy, our 4 taurus's sat for 3 weeks and all sold within 3 days! weird. Cheques aren't being written by many lately regardless...watch CNN you may understand why,,,,doom, gloom, wars , recessions, housing forclosures, gas prices.....that checkbook that was sitting besides the phone is put away in the draw until consumer confidence resurrects itself...everyon is pretty scared right now....

[NickF1011]

Well, just one note about your post here. If you look around the market, the vehicles with the most interior room are RWD.

 

The 300, Crown Vic, Expedtion, Explorer, Tahoe, CTS, and like that. Typically FWD sedans tend to be midsize or compact cars. Only FWD minivans could be included on your list as having a roomy interior but frankly even then if you compare a FWD minivan to a RWD full size conversion van, the RWD one wins again.

 

Hmmm...I think the D3's would argue with your claim about interior room. As would some of the FWD-based crossovers that trump the Explorer on interior volume.

 

And you're comparing a minivan to a fullsize conversion van?? :lol: Where the hell do you think the "mini" part of the name came from? They're smaller ON PURPOSE.

Edited December 12, 2007 by NickF1011

[Deanh]

Well, just one note about your post here. If you look around the market, the vehicles with the most interior room are RWD.

 

The 300, Crown Vic, Expedtion, Explorer, Tahoe, CTS, and like that. Typically FWD sedans tend to be midsize or compact cars. Only FWD minivans could be included on your list as having a roomy interior but frankly even then if you compare a FWD minivan to a RWD full size conversion van, the RWD one wins again.

Was talking sedans only...sorry.....and look at the size of those behemoths to counter transmission humps and driveshafts etc...doesn't the Taurus/ 500 have more interior room than a CV? 10 foot ladder for example......then line them up side by side....CV is pretty huge to basically acheive similar interior space....

[LincolnFan]

Hmmm...I think the D3's would argue with your claim about interior room. As would some of the FWD-based crossovers that trump the Explorer on interior volume.

 

Explorer is a BOF vehicle, it wouldn't be hard to beat it in interior volume.

[suv_guy_19]

The whole point of most FWD vehicles is to be more efficient and less expensive than their RWD counterparts. In most cases this means that they will be smaller to achieve this.

[ZanatWork]

Uh oh. Looks like the triplet "uber defenders" have taken on the Taurus's cause. :o:

 

Awww...the whiner returns, and, as usual...just hacks with no real point!

 

Even when I comment on American-made Fords, he's here to bitch. What a pure s**t existence!

[ZanatWork]

Thank you, but too bad you will not be taken seriously because now you're considered the enemy.

 

Not so, as he comes across as a realistic, sensible person as opposed to a negatard. Get the tattoo.

[LincolnFan]

Not so, as he comes across as a realistic, sensible person as opposed to a negatard. Get the tattoo.

 

I don't do tattoes, they ruin my natural beauty.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Tom is right. The auto industry only switched the bulk of its cars to FWD because they are cheaper and easier to build that way. Meanwhile you still pay more for them while they sell you some BS about how FWD is better in the snow and thats why they did it.

 

You are dead right Blackhorse, the only reason FWD has only ever caught on was due to its cheap & easy for the manufacturer to drop engine, gearbox, and drive shafts all in as one lump at the manufacturing stage. You try doing any work yourself on a FWD it’s a nightmare every thing is crammed in tight, a simple job like changing a cam belt can be nightmare on some FWD cars due to lack of space, you cant put any decent power through the front wheels, long distant drives are more relaxing in RWD cars. FWD cars are OK for small trips around town, and they are more economical than RWD cars.

 

If FWD was so bloody good Ferrari, Porsche, GT40s & F1 cars etc would have fitted it years ago. FWD is cheap and cheerful shit for the masses. When world rallying was 2WD RWD ruled the roost until the awesome Audi Quattro AWD came in the early 80s. FWD are girlie shitboxes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rally_GB

 

What no FWD.

[suv_guy_19]

You are dead right Blackhorse, the only reason FWD has only ever caught on was due to its cheap & easy for the manufacturer to drop engine, gearbox, and drive shafts all in as one lump at the manufacturing stage. You try doing any work yourself on a FWD it’s a nightmare every thing is crammed in tight, a simple job like changing a cam belt can be nightmare on some FWD cars due to lack of space, you cant put any decent power through the front wheels, long distant drives are more relaxing in RWD cars. FWD cars are OK for small trips around town, and they are more economical than RWD cars.

 

If FWD was so bloody good Ferrari, Porsche, GT40s & F1 cars etc would have fitted it years ago. FWD is cheap and cheerful shit for the masses. When world rallying was 2WD RWD ruled the roost until the awesome Audi Quattro AWD came in the early 80s. FWD are girlie shitboxes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rally_GB

 

What no FWD.

 

He is certainly wrong about one thing, FWD is better in the snow.

Edited December 12, 2007 by suv_guy_19

[NickF1011]

If FWD was so bloody good Ferrari, Porsche, GT40s & F1 cars etc would have fitted it years ago. FWD is cheap and cheerful shit for the masses. When world rallying was 2WD RWD ruled the roost until the awesome Audi Quattro AWD came in the early 80s. FWD are girlie shitboxes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rally_GB

 

What no FWD.

 

Wow. That's a hilarious statement. You DO realize that 99% of the cars on the road are FOR THE MASSES, right? OF COURSE performance cars are going to be RWD (or AWD). NOBODY will debate that FWD is better for edge-of-the-seat driving maneuvers. But to that 98% of the masses who will never push their car past 50% of its abilities, they could care less what wheels are moving the vehicle, so long as it goes and the rest of the features on the vehicle match their needs.

[BlackHorse]

You are dead right Blackhorse, the only reason FWD has only ever caught on was due to its cheap & easy for the manufacturer to drop engine, gearbox, and drive shafts all in as one lump at the manufacturing stage. You try doing any work yourself on a FWD it’s a nightmare every thing is crammed in tight, a simple job like changing a cam belt can be nightmare on some FWD cars due to lack of space, you cant put any decent power through the front wheels, long distant drives are more relaxing in RWD cars. FWD cars are OK for small trips around town, and they are more economical than RWD cars.

 

If FWD was so bloody good Ferrari, Porsche, GT40s & F1 cars etc would have fitted it years ago. FWD is cheap and cheerful shit for the masses. When world rallying was 2WD RWD ruled the roost until the awesome Audi Quattro AWD came in the early 80s. FWD are girlie shitboxes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rally_GB

 

What no FWD.

 

[jpd80]

The whole point of most FWD vehicles is to be more efficient and less expensive than their RWD counterparts. In most cases this means that they will be smaller to achieve this.

Kinda true.

Modern FWDs also came with much longer wheelbase which really helps compartment packaging but now RWD is doing the same.

A few years back, FWD was cheaper and easier to build on the production line but now modern RWD is clawing back the deficit.

 

The truth is with larger vehicled the advantges of FWD diminish, the only present advantage they have is provision of AWD.

I don't believe the market has responded with as much entheuiasm for this as manufacturers had hoped for.

 

Mind you, an AWD TF Lincoln would be an excellent vehicle but I bet you'd pay through the nose for one.

[BlackHorse]

NOBODY will debate that FWD is better for edge-of-the-seat driving maneuvers.

 

 

Did you really just mean to say that?

[NickF1011]

 

Is that you in the front with the Flock of Seagulls hair?