So now that the Taurus flopped.

[NickF1011]

Did you really just mean to say that?

 

Debate in FAVOR of it being better.

[BlackHorse]

Debate in FAVOR of it being better.

 

Ok, if FWD was all that for "edge of your seat driving" then as Jelly pointed out cars like Vette and Ferrari and so on would have switched it already.

 

Also, that might be me in the picture but we all know that you're the Ab Lincoln look alike in the middle row, center. lol

[NickF1011]

Ok, if FWD was all that for "edge of your seat driving" then as Jelly pointed out cars like Vette and Ferrari and so on would have switched it already.

 

Also, that might be me in the picture but we all know that you're the Ab Lincoln look alike in the middle row, center. lol

 

Oh brother. Let me rephrase it again:

 

"NOBODY will debate IN FAVOR of FWD being better for edge-of-the-seat driving maneuvers."

 

Understand??

 

And dammit, I only have a goatee, not a full beard.

Edited December 12, 2007 by NickF1011

[Deanh]

Ok, if FWD was all that for "edge of your seat driving" then as Jelly pointed out cars like Vette and Ferrari and so on would have switched it already.

 

Also, that might be me in the picture but we all know that you're the Ab Lincoln look alike in the middle row, center. lol

FYI...Ferrari is the mecca....MID-engine.......that brings up ANOTHER parameter......

[shllshck]

Ok, that was funny.

Anyway, what were the monthly sales numbers for the Taurus in November? Anyone know?

In November Ford sold 3,779 Taurus, 116 Five Hundreds, and 1,180 combined Sables/Montegos. Total sales 5,075.

 

In comparison, for November 2006, Ford sold 3,437 Five Hundreds and 932 Montegos. Total sales. 4,369.

 

Year over year, Taurus+Sable showed a 16% increase (not factoring sale days) for the month of November.

 

In December 2006 Ford sold 6,689 Five Hundreds and 1,741 Montegos.

[NickF1011]

Year over year, Taurus+Sable showed a 16% increase (not factoring sale days) for the month of November.

 

Not that it matters much to your point, but Nov '06 and Nov '07 both had 25 selling days.

[shllshck]

Not that it matters much to your point, but Nov '06 and Nov '07 both had 25 selling days.

Cool. I didn't want to dig for the Nov '06 press release to see how many selling days there was.

[BlackHorse]

Oh brother. Let me rephrase it again:

 

"NOBODY will debate IN FAVOR of FWD being better for edge-of-the-seat driving maneuvers."

 

Understand??

 

And dammit, I only have a goatee, not a full beard.

 

YOU MUST BE CLEAR ABOUT WHAT YOU SAY DAMMITT!!!!! lol

 

 

Now seriously though, it's true guys, they only switched to FWD because it's cheaper and easier to build. Also as someone pointed out the size of the car being smaller is also a good point. Remember that the real surge towards FWD happened in the early to mid 80's when they were trying to make more fuel efficient cars. It's not that I have anything against FWD cars, it's just that I'm not some sucker that believes all the bullshit the car companies tell us. These cars are cheaper for them to build and they charge just as much from a profit percentage point of view. It's a money maker and they bill it as "Oh they are so much better in the snow." My ass, if you can drive worth a shit it doesn't matter which wheels get the power. Additionally, how much of the country is spending a lot of time driving in the snow? Of those places that do, most of them have well established crews that get out and plow the roads clear within hours after a heavy snowfall. If you live in an area that doesn't have such crews I bet you'll find a lot of 4WD owners.

[BlackHorse]

In November Ford sold 3,779 Taurus, 116 Five Hundreds, and 1,180 combined Sables/Montegos. Total sales 5,075.

 

In comparison, for November 2006, Ford sold 3,437 Five Hundreds and 932 Montegos. Total sales. 4,369.

 

Year over year, Taurus+Sable showed a 16% increase (not factoring sale days) for the month of November.

 

In December 2006 Ford sold 6,689 Five Hundreds and 1,741 Montegos.

 

Are these numbers what Ford had projected and therefore didn't leave a lot of inventory sitting on the lots?

[suv_guy_19]

Additionally, how much of the country is spending a lot of time driving in the snow? Of those places that do, most of them have well established crews that get out and plow the roads clear within hours after a heavy snowfall. If you live in an area that doesn't have such crews I bet you'll find a lot of 4WD owners.

 

:rolleyes: Where do you live again. FWD is better in the snow? I have driven both in all conditions and I know this very well. Yeah, we have crews that start clearing immediately, but there is a big area to cover and even after roads are cleared, driving is never perfect in winter. FWD is in most cases better in snow, its not really a debate.

[Deanh]

:rolleyes: Where do you live again. FWD is better in the snow? I have driven both in all conditions and I know this very well. Yeah, we have crews that start clearing immediately, but there is a big area to cover and even after roads are cleared, driving is never perfect in winter. FWD is in most cases better in snow, its not really a debate.

more weight over the drive wheels than driving wheel orientation...LOVED my old Beetle in inclement weather.....

[351cid]

Just for the record...my wife loves her Five Hundred.

[LincolnFan]

:rolleyes: Where do you live again. FWD is better in the snow? I have driven both in all conditions and I know this very well. Yeah, we have crews that start clearing immediately, but there is a big area to cover and even after roads are cleared, driving is never perfect in winter. FWD is in most cases better in snow, its not really a debate.

 

If you suck at driving, you can always use the "salt sacks" cheat in RWD vehicles.

[BlackHorse]

:rolleyes: Where do you live again. FWD is better in the snow? I have driven both in all conditions and I know this very well. Yeah, we have crews that start clearing immediately, but there is a big area to cover and even after roads are cleared, driving is never perfect in winter. FWD is in most cases better in snow, its not really a debate.

 

I haven't always lived here. FWD / RWD, it doesn't matter if you can drive. Did you just admit to being a shitty driver SUV?

[suv_guy_19]

more weight over the drive wheels than driving wheel orientation...LOVED my old Beetle in inclement weather.....

 

 

Yeah that is most of the answer. In slippery conditions it is also often easier for the wheels to pull than push.

[92merc]

The only people who think FWD is better in the snow are people that don't know how to drive to begin with. I can't get around any better in my 2007 Montego than my 92 Grand Marquis. The only thing is that my GM needed a little weight thrown in the trunk. Montego already has weight over the wheels.

 

Even with traction, I prefer the GM because I can apply power separately from steering. I could tap the gas and slide around a corner.

 

If FWD is really that good, no one would be able to reverse their cars in the winter...

[92merc]

Yeah that is most of the answer. In slippery conditions it is also often easier for the wheels to pull than push.

 

Physics will tell you otherwise. If that were true, all the truckers would be pushing their trailers...

[suv_guy_19]

I haven't always lived here. FWD / RWD, it doesn't matter if you can drive. Did you just admit to being a shitty driver SUV?

 

 

Well, you obviously don't know a whole lot about severe winter weather. I don't think that I suck at driving. I don't get into accidents, though, like most people, I have close calls from time to time. FWD provides superior traction because of weight. With winter tires added it does an excellent job. Because of how well a FWD winter tire combination drives, I don't even wish for AWD most of the time.

[suv_guy_19]

Physics will tell you otherwise. If that were true, all the truckers would be pushing their trailers...

 

?

[BlackHorse]

Sheesh I like you SUV, even though you're a Canuk. LOL, But seriously, you just laid out all the cliche reasons the car companies gave us for FWD. It's easier to pull, easier to drive in the snow and so on. I once drove an 85 Nissan pickup with an empty bed over roads that literally had an inch of ice on them. Up hills, both ways. lol No seriuosly there were some pretty serious hills involved. I had no problem.

 

 

Oh yeah, that was a RWD pickup by the way, not like that Honda shit.

[jpd80]

:rolleyes: Where do you live again. FWD is better in the snow? I have driven both in all conditions and I know this very well. Yeah, we have crews that start clearing immediately, but there is a big area to cover and even after roads are cleared, driving is never perfect in winter. FWD is in most cases better in snow, its not really a debate.

So how do the likes of police with RWD Crown Victorias and Mustang owners get on?

If the problem was that bad, nobody would buy RWD cars at all in the snow belt.

 

Modern RWDs like the Pontiac G8 have 50/50 weight distribution which means about 2,000 lb on the rear wheels.

I'll agree that old RWDs were worse because they were nose heavy but you can't make the same argument for the newbys.

 

On Topic,

I don't think they Taurus has really flopped because the market is changing and I seriously doubt Ford will ever have

any vehicles other than F Trucks that sell near 20,000/month. Taurus is suffering from bad marketing full stop.

It's this problem Ford needs to address imediately for all its products.

New products don't mean squat without proper advertising.

 

I really think the need to put Fusion and Taurus back together again as a vehicle with 110" wheelbase and a 19 cuft trunk,

sell it with 2.5 I4 and 3.7 V6. That would open up a space for a Panther/D3 replacement which could

be used to capture both ends of the market, retail and fleet

Edited December 12, 2007 by jpd80

[elkarlo]

As a Ford dealer I am disappointed in my Taurus/Sable/X sales. In fact I sold more 500/Freestyles/Montego's last year. But then everything is down this year. I think the Taurus won't get any respect until 2010. The 500/Taurus debacle used up any goodwill the industry might have given it. Not that the car is bad...far from it. But visually it is a very light refresh of a 500. Interior and engine upgrades aside, it's not enough to impress the masses.

 

 

Didn't know you were a Ford Dealer. Can you give me a break down of monthly sales. How many Focuses, Fusions, F-Series, Explorers, Edges, Escapes, and so on do you sell individually each month? I'm really curious of what draws people to the lot, and what they walk away with.

[suv_guy_19]

So how do the likes of police with RWD Crown Victorias and Mustang owners get on?

If the problem was that bad, nobody would buy RWD cars at all in the snow belt.

 

 

They get by, but the point is that it is easier with FWD. Sure, they can do, but I very often pass RWD vehicles on the highway during icy conditions because they are having trouble simply staying in a straight line.

Edited December 12, 2007 by suv_guy_19

[NickF1011]

The only people who think FWD is better in the snow are people that don't know how to drive to begin with.

 

Well, there are a few other factors at play here. RWD cars typically are fitted with more aggressive tires. They are also often fitted with torquier engines, both of which can greatly contribute to trickier driving in adverse weather.

 

Even WITH snow tires on both I'd be a damn sight happier driving my FWD Mazd6 in the snow than my Cobra. I've driven both in the snow without managing to die or run into anything, but the difference in handling characteristics and predictability is night and day.

[bravestar]

Didn't know you were a Ford Dealer. Can you give me a break down of monthly sales. How many Focuses, Fusions, F-Series, Explorers, Edges, Escapes, and so on do you sell individually each month? I'm really curious of what draws people to the lot, and what they walk away with.

 

And by the way, could I have a copy of your W-2? How about your credit card statements as well as your wifes income? Any dependents? What do you do for entertainment? Republican or Democrat? Why?

 

You see I am curious...sarcasm aside now. Why does everyone think they have a right to know automobile dealers business? Just amazing to me what information is out there concerning the auto dealers but when i go to a furniture store, no information available.