RichardJensen Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 it totally changes the styling and the dynamics of the car. Does it? Ford's AWD system is managed entirely by engine software, and transfers torque based not on wheel spin, but computer directives (which factor in throttle input). Ford's system will switch power to the rear wheels under acceleration before spin occurs. Go test drive an AWD Fusion (without a salesman). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Doesn't mean it's RWD. The Audi A8 is fulltime AWD, which is, IMO, a waste of gas. You simply don't need power going to all four wheels most of the time. What it does mean is that it's RWD BASED, so it doesn't have horrible looking overhang, torque steer, poor handling, poor driving dynamics, poor front tire wear, etc. It's a huge difference compared to a FWD car with part time AWD, which is why people who are comparing Audi's to Lincoln because they are offering optional AWD don't have a clue as to what they are talking about. And of course full time AWD wastes gas, it's just that when you're not in need of AWD, it's only proper and desireable to have the rear wheels powering the car on a luxury vehicle. Otherwise it's just a wanna-be.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 What it does mean is that it's RWD BASED, so it doesn't have horrible looking overhang, torque steer, poor handling, poor driving dynamics, poor front tire wear, etc. It's a huge difference compared to a FWD car with part time AWD, which is why people who are comparing Audi's to Lincoln because they are offering optional AWD don't have a clue as to what they are talking about. And of course full time AWD wastes gas, it's just that when you're not in need of AWD, it's only proper and desireable to have the rear wheels powering the car on a luxury vehicle. Otherwise it's just a wanna-be.. So, because you think thats how a luxury car has to be, thats how it has to be huh. Theres nothing wrong with taking a different route. More people buy FWD cars everyday than RWD cars and many would never change back. Lincoln is giving them something to upgrade too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Yeah, but IIRC, the A8 defaults to a split between front and rear axles, whereas A6 & A4 Quattro are FWD unless AWD is called for. I just read here and here that the AWD on all the longitudinal-engine Audis (A4/5/6/8) is full-time as of a couple of years ago, whereas the transverse-engine Audis (A3, TT) use the Haldex quattro system. Someone help me out if I'm misunderstanding something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 (edited) Why? With 100% of power able to go to either set of wheels, it should do a very good job. I hate to break it to you, but Luxury cars aren't all about dynamics. Why? Because FWD based cars look like crap, they don't convey a sense of luxury with the front wheels under your feet, people that spend big money on cars don't want them looking like warmed over econo-cars. And dynamics and driving feel is a large part of it, otherwise BMW's wouldn't be so popular, ever been in the total luxury of a 3 series BMW while whipping around turns at 90mph? I have, and it's changed my mind about BMW's which I formally didn't like. Not everybody is an aging geezer that just wants a boulevard cruiser to massage their hemorrhoids.. Edited December 31, 2007 by Blueblood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Why? Because FWD based cars look like crap, they don't convey a sense of luxury with the front wheels under your feet, people that spend big money on cars don't want them looking like warmed over econo-cars. Look like warmed over econo cars. OK. You are not the end all be all of styling. The MKS has a very nice look to it. I guess its a matter of taste but its a look I really like. And dynamics and driving feel is a large part of it, otherwise BMW's wouldn't be so popular, ever been is total luxury of a 3 series BMW while whipping around turns at 90mph? I have, and it's changed my mind about BMW's which I formally didn't like. Not everybody is an aging geezer that just wants a boulevard cruiser to massage their hemorrhoids.. If everyone who spent large amounts of money wanted a BMW, there would be no other luxury maker. Many people like the idea of a car that simply glides along and coddles them in complete comfort. That, IMO, is luxury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 .........total luxury of a 3 series BMW.......... The 3 series is not a luxury car! The bigger, more luxurious 7 or 8 series isn't nearly as tossable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagrah01 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Why? With 100% of power able to go to either set of wheels, it should do a very good job. I hate to break it to you, but Luxury cars aren't all about dynamics. According to who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Does it? Ford's AWD system is managed entirely by engine software, and transfers torque based not on wheel spin, but computer directives (which factor in throttle input). Ford's system will switch power to the rear wheels under acceleration before spin occurs. Go test drive an AWD Fusion (without a salesman). As in where the weight is, FWD cars have the engine in front of the axle, which makes them nose heavy, I'm sure the AWD helps, but there's only so much the system can do to overcome physics, the front tires can only do so much with so much weight over them. I'd love to test drive an AWD Fusion without the salesman, doubt they'll let me though. And to that I'd say try to get a ride in a new Mustang GT which is nearly 50/50 that has sticky tires, they handle so well you'll swear you can out corner Ferrari's, Vette's, etc.. You just can't get that balance out of FWD based cars, if only they could design transaxle's that had the axle shafts coming out in front of the engine instead of behind it, then we'd have an even playing field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 According to who? IF you have to ask..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 So, because you think thats how a luxury car has to be, thats how it has to be huh. Theres nothing wrong with taking a different route. More people buy FWD cars everyday than RWD cars and many would never change back. Lincoln is giving them something to upgrade too. Well with that the other luxury companies are offering them stuff they seem to be buying.. Not just an added trim level over a Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Well with that the other luxury companies are offering them stuff they seem to be buying.. Not just an added trim level over a Ford. I don't know, a great many people seem to be getting into Lincolns now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagrah01 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 So, because you think thats how a luxury car has to be, thats how it has to be huh. Theres nothing wrong with taking a different route. More people buy FWD cars everyday than RWD cars and many would never change back. Lincoln is giving them something to upgrade too. We have been here before remember the Continental or previous generation STS? There not around for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 We have been here before remember the Continental or previous generation STS? There not around for a reason. The past proves almost nothing. Besides, they didn't have available AWD. They also didn't have the upcoming twinforce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 (edited) :boring: Same old arguments recycled over and over again. What I wouldn't give for something NEW to talk about on BOF... Edited December 31, 2007 by TomServo92 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 :boring: Same old arguments recycled over and over again. What I wouldn't give for something NEW to talk about on BOF... NAIAS is just around the corner. Then we can argue about the F150 lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagrah01 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 The 3 series is not a luxury car! The bigger, more luxurious 7 or 8 series isn't nearly as tossable. A product of mass, however in relation to a vehicle of comparable size, say the Lincoln Town Car, well you get the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 NAIAS is just around the corner. Then we can argue about the F150 lol. ...................again I should add. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 NAIAS is just around the corner. Then we can argue about the F150 lol. We've already done that..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 ...................again I should add. Beat me to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 We've already done that..... see addition above lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Look like warmed over econo cars. OK. You are not the end all be all of styling. The MKS has a very nice look to it. I guess its a matter of taste but its a look I really like. Actually I am, the epitome of disgusting FWD looking turds was built by Chrysler with those "cab-forward" LHS cars, yuck. Not only that, in a luxury car I want legroom, can't have legroom when the wheelwells take up your foot space on a FWD car. Which is the other big drawback that I previously forgot to mention. And I never said I didn't like the MKS, I think they did a very good job with it, but that doesn't also mean I think it's in any way a "flagship" vehicle, or that it'll have driving dynamics comparable to BMW's MB's, and Audi's.. It's a good base to middle of the road lux car, a flagship would be something like the Continental concept, or the MKR.. If everyone who spent large amounts of money wanted a BMW, there would be no other luxury maker. Many people like the idea of a car that simply glides along and coddles them in complete comfort. That, IMO, is luxury. And the Panthers do a superb job of that! :hyper: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagrah01 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 If everyone who spent large amounts of money wanted a BMW, there would be no other luxury maker. Many people like the idea of a car that simply glides along and coddles them in complete comfort. That, IMO, is luxury. And the reason Lexus is so popular, nice compromise of luxury and sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 And the reason Lexus is so popular, nice compromise of luxury and sport. Well, I do like Lexus. That does not mean that the exact same formula has to be followed. There are other ways to achieve success. It seems that Lincoln is beginning to find some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 And the reason Lexus is so popular, nice compromise of luxury and sport. BTW, Lexus's #1 selling car has no sport appeal at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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