Footballfan Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 When the government turns down our request what do we do? Like any good communist we try to shove it down everyone's throat. http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articl...07_FORTUNE5.htm Clinton and Obama support Barbara Boxer's plan to make the Califorina rules everone's rules? SCREW THEM! How can Gettlefinger et. al. possibly support these idiots by giving them thier endoresement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakeup Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 When the government turns down our request what do we do? Like any good communist we try to shove it down everyone's throat. http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articl...07_FORTUNE5.htm Clinton and Obama support Barbara Boxer's plan to make the Califorina rules everone's rules? SCREW THEM! How can Gettlefinger et. al. possibly support these idiots by giving them thier endoresement? The car companies need to get us there...sorry..Obama and Cinton are our only options...Please tell me your smart enough to not vote on single issues...because our President is...however, the membership selects who we pick thru their CAP committees.....based on voting records...how they voted on issues concerning Labor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 The car companies need to get us there...sorry..Obama and Cinton are our only options...Please tell me your smart enough to not vote on single issues...because our President is...however, the membership selects who we pick thru their CAP committees.....based on voting records...how they voted on issues concerning Labor... You are labor, but you are upper middle class labor. You are not on her radar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 The car companies need to get us there...sorry..Obama and Cinton are our only options...Please tell me your smart enough to not vote on single issues...because our President is...however, the membership selects who we pick thru their CAP committees.....based on voting records...how they voted on issues concerning Labor... The question is how? Do you not think that if there were a midsize car that got 45 MPG it woul be marketed by now? The standard cannot be met in that short of time frame- it as simple as that. Like all Americans, I am about self-preservation. Yes, one issue- when it comes to my livliehood being threatended- will sway my vote elsewhere. Not necessarily Republican, but certainly elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailinshoes Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 The car companies need to get us there...sorry..Obama and Cinton are our only options...Please tell me your smart enough to not vote on single issues...because our President is...however, the membership selects who we pick thru their CAP committees.....based on voting records...how they voted on issues concerning Labor... Single Issue?!? This is THE ISSUE!! If I loose my job, I don't give a damn how they vote on "Chinese Human Rights" or economic stimulus ! In my local the membership has no say in who sits on the CAP Committee, nor do they ratify any endorsements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 Single Issue?!?This is THE ISSUE!! If I loose my job, I don't give a damn how they vote on "Chinese Human Rights" or economic stimulus ! In my local the membership has no say in who sits on the CAP Committee, nor do they ratify any endorsements. At least they will give us health care when we are all forced to work at Wal-Mart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deckedoutf150 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 whats going to happen is the democrats are going to run hillary or obama (however you spell it) and neither one of them are going to beat the repubs that are running. i was pushin for john edwards but he dont have corperate or lobiest backing because he is trying to do things right. i might not even vote for a president if these fools are all we have to choose from. this countries future does not look good at all, all the foregin stuff that people are buying here and jobs leaving, economy going down the drain. why can we have a person in office that wants to help out the american auto companies and get them back in gear. all they have to do is raise taxes and interest rates on foregin cars and people will stop buying them. its not lookin good at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 Check out the senator from Vermont's worry that the maple syurup industry and ski season may be hampered in his state. http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?A...341/1148/AUTO01 I guess that is good reason to throw 80,000 auto jobs out the window. After all, ski resorts and maple syrup contribute FAR more to the economy than automaking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escapee Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 The only thing the politicians want US for, is to pay TAXES! TAXES! TAXES! and more TAXES! They want our money to pay for all their communistic plans. And, We are not going to get any thing back from the government when our time of need falls upon us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunk Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 If either one gets elected they have no shot at outlasting there vice president!if you know what I mean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbldbxorntnap Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 The question is how? Do you not think that if there were a midsize car that got 45 MPG it woul be marketed by now? The standard cannot be met in that short of time frame- it as simple as that. Like all Americans, I am about self-preservation. Yes, one issue- when it comes to my livliehood being threatended- will sway my vote elsewhere. Not necessarily Republican, but certainly elsewhere. I disagree with you I think the big three have been holding back on engines till sh-t hit the fan, what happen to all those inventors in the past that built engines that got remarkable great mileage that were bought out by the big three, you never hear of them, granted there making strides in hybrid and e-85 tech no., why aren't they offering e-85 engines at the low end of standard model instead making you buy a top of the line with the bells and whistles, and why aren't they trying to improve the e-85 mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davdog Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 At least they will give us health care when we are all forced to work at Wal-Mart! Why are you going to be forced to work at Wal-Mart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imawhosure Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I disagree with you I think the big three have been holding back on engines till sh-t hit the fan, what happen to all those inventors in the past that built engines that got remarkable great mileage that were bought out by the big three, you never hear of them, granted there making strides in hybrid and e-85 tech no., why aren't they offering e-85 engines at the low end of standard model instead making you buy a top of the line with the bells and whistles, and why aren't they trying to improve the e-85 mileage. That is an old wives tale, proven that it is for sure now, beyond a doubt. If they had the technology hidden away, the market would belong to them, would it not! If you could purchase a mid-size car that gets 45mls to the gallon for a reasonable price, who wouldn't do it? What anyone who believes they have this type of technology but won't use it is suggesting is--------->they are losing billions, losing marketshare hand over fist, have the ability to turn it around instantly by using tech they have in their possession; also putting the Japanes behind the eight ball, but are to dumb to use it. That is a stretch beyond even Alice in Wonderland, don't you think? The only entity that I know that would do that is the government; and they would only do it to pander to special interest groups!!!!! So, if they do have it, the government is stopping them from using it I would have to say. Still and all, it is a stretch, and a looooooooong one to boot!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpmaster Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 When the government turns down our request what do we do? Like any good communist we try to shove it down everyone's throat. http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articl...07_FORTUNE5.htm Clinton and Obama support Barbara Boxer's plan to make the Califorina rules everone's rules? SCREW THEM! How can Gettlefinger et. al. possibly support these idiots by giving them thier endoresement? Screw Clinton, Obama, Bush, Cheney, Boxer, Feinstein, Putin, Musharraf, etc. They're ALL evil (except Kucinich, maybe). We need to stop looking to politicians to help us! What makes sense to me---but I admit I can't prove--is that the auto companies (including the Asians) are in bed with the oil companies. If you owned or were a big money stockholder in, say, Exxon/Mobil--- would you want cars to get 50 mpg? As of 2007, California had a population of about 37 million people. 37 fucking million---that's a huge market!! Instead of bitching about Californians wanting cars & trucks that pollute less and get better gas mileage---let's give it to 'em! Let's make a mid-size car that gets 50 mpg. Let's make a full-size truck that gets 40 mpg. If we did, I'll bet we couldn't make enough of 'em. I'm willing to bet the technology exists to make gas/diesel engines get better mileage---and the bastards who own Shell Oil, etc. are blocking that technology. We need to get past them, too. If we don't make vehicles Californians want to buy, somebody will---like these guys: http://www.teslamotors.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 (edited) Screw Clinton, Obama, Bush, Cheney, Boxer, Feinstein, Putin, Musharraf, etc. They're ALL evil (except Kucinich, maybe). We need to stop looking to politicians to help us! What makes sense to me---but I admit I can't prove--is that the auto companies (including the Asians) are in bed with the oil companies. If you owned or were a big money stockholder in, say, Exxon/Mobil--- would you want cars to get 50 mpg? As of 2007, California had a population of about 37 million people. 37 fucking million---that's a huge market!! Instead of bitching about Californians wanting cars & trucks that pollute less and get better gas mileage---let's give it to 'em! Let's make a mid-size car that gets 50 mpg. Let's make a full-size truck that gets 40 mpg. If we did, I'll bet we couldn't make enough of 'em. I'm willing to bet the technology exists to make gas/diesel engines get better mileage---and the bastards who own Shell Oil, etc. are blocking that technology. We need to get past them, too. If we don't make vehicles Californians want to buy, somebody will---like these guys: http://www.teslamotors.com/ It does seem a bit suspicious that the basic design of the internal combustion engine hasn't changed a lot over the years. We have never seen any big breakthroughs in improved gas mileage. Maybe the incentive isn't there. Government and oil companies have big vested interests in keeping things the way they are. Government has the power to make things rough for the car companies. It is the government which dictates gas mileage. Oil companies have enough money to influence the government. The president's family is in the oil business. The US government could ruin the Japanese car industry if they wanted to. Oil is Japan's lifes blood, and they have no oil of their own, so I would say that as far as Japan is concerned, the oil companies could call the shots if they wanted to. Edited January 25, 2008 by Trimdingman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoomerjrt Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I disagree with you I think the big three have been holding back on engines till sh-t hit the fan, what happen to all those inventors in the past that built engines that got remarkable great mileage that were bought out by the big three, you never hear of them, granted there making strides in hybrid and e-85 tech no., why aren't they offering e-85 engines at the low end of standard model instead making you buy a top of the line with the bells and whistles, and why aren't they trying to improve the e-85 mileage. Maybe I missed it but I don't hear the guys that build rice burners complaining. This is the biggest problem with Ford and GM, they'd rather cry verses stepping up to the plate and giving us new engines that burn less. Personaly I'd bet they are already able to do it. After all these years of product development you'd think the top boys at Ford would want to lead the pack and be the first to produce this. But I guess they'd rather pay millions to there top two clowns and cry wolf. Sad part is I bet a rice burner beats the American auto industry!! SAD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbldbxorntnap Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 It does seem a bit suspicious that the basic design of the internal combustion engine hasn't changed a lot over the years. We have never seen any big breakthroughs in improved gas mileage. Maybe the incentive isn't there. Government and oil companies have big vested interests in keeping things the way they are. Government has the power to make things rough for the car companies. It is the government which dictates gas mileage. Oil companies have enough money to influence the government. The president's family is in the oil business. The US government could ruin the Japanese car industry if they wanted to. Oil is Japan's lifes blood, and they have no oil of their own, so I would say that as far as Japan is concerned, the oil companies could call the shots if they wanted to. I'll tell you, just my own opinion I think the big three are in collusion with the oil companies, why else would ford recommend BP gas for it's vehicles over say another brand ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xr7g428 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Myth number one: Ford vehicles get worse gas mileage than competitive vehicles. FALSE. Most are within the margin of error (1 or 2 MPG) of any competitor. The difference is that Ford builds a lot of vehicles that don't get great gas mileage, that people DO want to buy (F150, Mustang, etc.) Myth number two: Gas mileage is controlled by oil companies. FALSE. Gasoline contains a given amount of potential energy. It requires a specific amount of energy to do work (like move a 4000 lb vehicle). Physics can pretty well tell you what is possible. Diesels get better mileage because diesel contains more energy per gallon than gasoline, and ethanol contains less. Myth number three: Auto Assembly workers are middle class: FALSE. The median HOUSEHOLD income (half higher, half lower) was $44,389 in 2006. Most auto assembly workers are in the top two fifths of income (household income of over $75,000). Congratulations! the government considers you rich from a taxation view point. Myth number four: All unions are a part of the politician's view of LABOR: False. The teachers unions and the civil service unions are where the votes are. The UAW doesn't represent a meaningful number of workers except in Michigan to have any clout. It is insane to vote for people who consider your lively-hood a threat to the planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 Maybe I missed it but I don't hear the guys that build rice burners complaining. This is the biggest problem with Ford and GM, they'd rather cry verses stepping up to the plate and giving us new engines that burn less. Personaly I'd bet they are already able to do it. After all these years of product development you'd think the top boys at Ford would want to lead the pack and be the first to produce this. But I guess they'd rather pay millions to there top two clowns and cry wolf. Sad part is I bet a rice burner beats the American auto industry!! SAD Toyota, Honda and Nissan are all against California's proposals as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 Why are you going to be forced to work at Wal-Mart? Figure of speech. The highest areas of growth in this country are retail and services. I know of people who are experienced engineers and respected in their fields that are working in careers that are completely different than their training- their positions and jobs have vanished. Others have been laid off for months and years. No, they are not incompetent or laggards. Their jobs have been moved overseas. It is not only the blue collar job that is getting wacked; medical services, engineering services, customer service, design services, everything can be "offshored" now. With the lack of American industrial/trade policy over the years, and the Democrats tax and regulation mantra, all the capital intensive jobs have been moved overseas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disabled Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Myth number one: Ford vehicles get worse gas mileage than competitive vehicles. FALSE. Most are within the margin of error (1 or 2 MPG) of any competitor. The difference is that Ford builds a lot of vehicles that don't get great gas mileage, that people DO want to buy (F150, Mustang, etc.) Myth number two: Gas mileage is controlled by oil companies. FALSE. Gasoline contains a given amount of potential energy. It requires a specific amount of energy to do work (like move a 4000 lb vehicle). Physics can pretty well tell you what is possible. Diesels get better mileage because diesel contains more energy per gallon than gasoline, and ethanol contains less. Myth number three: Auto Assembly workers are middle class: FALSE. The median HOUSEHOLD income (half higher, half lower) was $44,389 in 2006. Most auto assembly workers are in the top two fifths of income (household income of over $75,000). Congratulations! the government considers you rich from a taxation view point. Myth number four: All unions are a part of the politician's view of LABOR: False. The teachers unions and the civil service unions are where the votes are. The UAW doesn't represent a meaningful number of workers except in Michigan to have any clout. It is insane to vote for people who consider your lively-hood a threat to the planet. The problem is Ford knew this was coming decades ago. They have stalled and stalled and guzzled up that big money they earned on trucks and suv's without looking to the future. REmember Bill Ford was going to be the "green" ceo when he took over and he did squat. The market for fuel efficient cars was always there but they chose to ignore it for short term profits and now we are paying the price. I was at Ford during the gas crisis in the 70's and upper management laughed at the japanese auto makers and said let them have the small car market there isn't ENOUGH money in small fuel efficient cars. They said small car small profit. Big car big truck big profit. Well the japanese kept at it and also worked on the big car big truck market and pushed their engineering forward and guess what they soon will have it all. Instead of investing the big profits from models such as taurus/sable into engineering they used it to buy Jaguar and landrover. Luckily they bought Volvo who gave them the engineering or flexible platform they now base their auto production on. I called my senator and congressman when Ford sent me a postcard that the standards were being raised and I voiced my opposition to this measure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imawhosure Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Myth number one: Ford vehicles get worse gas mileage than competitive vehicles. FALSE. Most are within the margin of error (1 or 2 MPG) of any competitor. The difference is that Ford builds a lot of vehicles that don't get great gas mileage, that people DO want to buy (F150, Mustang, etc.) Myth number two: Gas mileage is controlled by oil companies. FALSE. Gasoline contains a given amount of potential energy. It requires a specific amount of energy to do work (like move a 4000 lb vehicle). Physics can pretty well tell you what is possible. Diesels get better mileage because diesel contains more energy per gallon than gasoline, and ethanol contains less. Myth number three: Auto Assembly workers are middle class: FALSE. The median HOUSEHOLD income (half higher, half lower) was $44,389 in 2006. Most auto assembly workers are in the top two fifths of income (household income of over $75,000). Congratulations! the government considers you rich from a taxation view point. Myth number four: All unions are a part of the politician's view of LABOR: False. The teachers unions and the civil service unions are where the votes are. The UAW doesn't represent a meaningful number of workers except in Michigan to have any clout. It is insane to vote for people who consider your lively-hood a threat to the planet. This is absolutely one of the most accurate posts that I have seen on here, bar none. This person has cut right through all the noise, and explained reality/situation, perfectly. You can dispute what he has laid out for you all you wish, but he has not said anything that is a lie. The one thing that should hit you directly in the kisser is------------>YOU, the autoworker, are perceived to be the wealthy with income and benefits calculated by those who some of you want to support. YOU ladies and gentlemen, are part of the problem according to those who want equality in employment, and to rid the earth of of anything that does not get 50mls to the gallon. Being that you are in the upper percentile in income, not to mention-------->that is BEFORE your benefits are calculated---------->you also will bear the burden of new taxes for those people who are seen as WEALTHY. For those of you who do not understand why some autoworkers may not support republicans, but down right OPPOSE DEMOCRATS, you need not to realize who they are and what they want to do, but rather who YOU are in their grand scheme of things, and what your income means they are going to do to youbecause of where you sit on the food chain!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davdog Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 This is absolutely one of the most accurate posts that I have seen on here, bar none. This person has cut right through all the noise, and explained reality/situation, perfectly. You can dispute what he has laid out for you all you wish, but he has not said anything that is a lie. The one thing that should hit you directly in the kisser is------------>YOU, the autoworker, are perceived to be the wealthy with income and benefits calculated by those who some of you want to support. YOU ladies and gentlemen, are part of the problem according to those who want equality in employment, and to rid the earth of of anything that does not get 50mls to the gallon. Being that you are in the upper percentile in income, not to mention-------->that is BEFORE your benefits are calculated---------->you also will bear the burden of new taxes for those people who are seen as WEALTHY. For those of you who do not understand why some autoworkers may not support republicans, but down right OPPOSE DEMOCRATS, you need not to realize who they are and what they want to do, but rather who YOU are in their grand scheme of things, and what your income means they are going to do to youbecause of where you sit on the food chain!!!!!!!!!! Oh come on whosure, 50k to 150k doesn't get you close to the wealthy these days. I work in IT at a marketing company and most of the kids with 5 years under their belt in marketing are topping 100k these days. Head over to the creative department and you'll find a bunch of bono look alikes raking in similar money. The money these auto guys are making may seem like a lot of money in the shit holes where the put auto plants but they couldn't afford a one bedroom condo in most of the decent cities in this country on 75k. Check in with the guys at CAP. Hey it probably pisses them off that they make as much as someone who works in Detroit who can get a decent house for less than 200k while in chi-town 200k won't get you a 1 bedroom condo. Hell in some parts of Detroit you can get a whole street for 200k. The reason no one is paying attention to anyone on the blue collar side of the auto industry is because they are like dinosaurs right before the ice age, their numbers are only going to go down. And the reason they get no support from the public has more to do with how the big 3 are perceived then how the uaw are. Hell I've driven fords all my life but I don't see a way I can buy a ford now knowing I'm supporting a company that is still paying people 4 years after they last worked, I'm talking about edison workers. The big 3 stuck the American public with excessive costs when they had a monopoly going, which is why you can buy a house in some parts of this country for less than a taurus. It's not just the uaw either, its the whole damn company from top to bottom. That's one of the reason they have things like death watch web sites where people speculate when chrysler and ford are going to go belly up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xr7g428 Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Davdog, IT at a marketing company is not real life as experienced by the majority of Americans. I do not make stuff up. The data is there from the US census. Be very happy that you are where you are. The real money is in product development, design, distribution and marketing. IT makes it all possible with a tiny support staff. But for the rest of America it looks like this: Lowest fifth $0 to $18,500 Second fifth $18,500 to $34,738 Middle fifth $34,738 to $55,331 median is $44,389 Fourth fifth $55,331 to $88,030 Highest fifth $88,030 to $$$$ Here is the link to the Census data: www.census.gov/hhes/www/income.html If you read carefully, you will discover that the shrinking middle class is actually a result of the shrinking number of two parent households. As it turns out, single parents are driving down the average of HOUSEHOLD income. This is further augmented by the decrease in male earnings as a percentage of female earnings. The one income family is now dead. And the fastest growing quintile is upper middle class: two earner households with college degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 (edited) The problem is Ford knew this was coming decades ago. They have stalled and stalled and guzzled up that big money they earned on trucks and suv's without looking to the future. REmember Bill Ford was going to be the "green" ceo when he took over and he did squat. The market for fuel efficient cars was always there but they chose to ignore it for short term profits and now we are paying the price. I was at Ford during the gas crisis in the 70's and upper management laughed at the japanese auto makers and said let them have the small car market there isn't ENOUGH money in small fuel efficient cars. They said small car small profit. Big car big truck big profit. Well the japanese kept at it and also worked on the big car big truck market and pushed their engineering forward and guess what they soon will have it all. Instead of investing the big profits from models such as taurus/sable into engineering they used it to buy Jaguar and landrover. Luckily they bought Volvo who gave them the engineering or flexible platform they now base their auto production on. I called my senator and congressman when Ford sent me a postcard that the standards were being raised and I voiced my opposition to this measure. so that's why Toyota and Nissan junped head first into full sized trucks. Yes, everyone knew it was coming. But they didn't expect gas to triple in cost over the course of 12 months. and thirdly, back when trucks were the thing and Ford almost surpassed GM as #1 who in their right mind was going to divert truck R&D fnds to efficient engines and B cars? Answer? No one. Not even the Japanese. The only reason they invested in the Corolla and Civic is because those are bread and butter cars to those companies. And Bill doing squat... what would you have him do when no one else in the company wanted to go that route? Bill actually spent a lot of his efforts trying to avoid mass layoffs and keeping everyone employed. He didn't want to do what Mulally is doing now... closing plants and letting people go. But thats the only way to become profitable again. Edited January 26, 2008 by J-150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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