Ford #3 in combined Class 6 & 7 sales!

[Joe771476]

Imagine if they did try! Only International and Freightliner/Sterling (used to be Ford) surpass Ford.

[rmc523]

Imagine if they did try! Only International and Freightliner/Sterling (used to be Ford) surpass Ford.

 

That's interesting. I'd like to see Ford try when they are on more stable ground with their regular product lines.

[Big_Mack]

That's interesting. I'd like to see Ford try when they are on more stable ground with their regular product lines.

 

Now I know that Ford only owns a controlling share of Volvo cars, but I wonder if they refrain from some of the heavy duty truck market because of their ties with Volvo. Volvo is a pretty big player in that segment, and jumping in there would kinda be a slap in the face to one of your somewhat partners in business. Now maybe I'm completely wrong and they are planning to get back in, but it could make some sense.

[suv_guy_19]

Now I know that Ford only owns a controlling share of Volvo cars,

 

 

I thought they owned the whole thing?

[Big_Mack]

I thought they owned the whole thing?

 

They do..when I said controlling share I meant that they own that portion of Volvo. Only the car side of Volvo though...not the trucks.

[suv_guy_19]

They do..when I said controlling share I meant that they own that portion of Volvo. Only the car side of Volvo though...not the trucks.

 

I understand now.

[7Mary3]

Those sales figures are good news, but since class 6 starts at 19,500#'s, those totals include the F-550 and many of the LCF models. You know how many 550's Ford sells! Ford has never to my knowedge broken out F-650 and F-750 sales separately. In any event, it looks like 'Blue Diamond' will end in Sept. 2009 and there isn't anything on the horizon to replace the 650 and 750.

[Bob Rosadini]

Those sales figures are good news, but since class 6 starts at 19,500#'s, those totals include the F-550 and many of the LCF models. You know how many 550's Ford sells! Ford has never to my knowedge broken out F-650 and F-750 sales separately. In any event, it looks like 'Blue Diamond' will end in Sept. 2009 and there isn't anything on the horizon to replace the 650 and 750.

Ah 7 Mary. The glass is always half empty! Perhaps you are right about 550- I actually never thought about 550 being a class 6. Let's see, you are a GMC salesman in disguise right? You say the 750 is a "pick up cab" on a medium chassis yet the GMC is a van cab on a medium chassis- so what's the diference? I personally think the visibility in the GM's sucks with that 30" of flat dash panel in front of you- or so it seems. Again - perception. To support your GM bias, no doubt they are better marketers- just look at the GM web site for mediums and then look at Ford's. Ford needs to clean house and get some truck people in medium truck marketing.

 

But Joe, I agree with you. They have good numbers and they don't try- they are brain dead. look at their marketing. They spend money in Heavy Duty Trucking and what is their add copy? A 450 dually pick up! Why spend money advertising a pick up truck in mag whose mere title implies "heavy duty"? I get a couple of mags that cater to the fuel oil business. Freightliner like clockwork has specific ads that show a 33,000 gvw F'liner equipped with a 2800 gallon tank- the std "tax cheater" in the residential oil delivery business. Ford owned that market in the old days with C series and LN's and even F-800's and 8000's. The 750 specs will work. this was a market they owned! Do they advertise? Nope

 

On another advertising note, Light and Medium Truck Mag also caters to the utility industry. 750's are a very popular truck at least in New England with several utilities as big bucket trucks. What does Ford advertise in that mag? F-350's with 10' boxes! They don't even advertise the LCF. Which on second thought, says that ay be a dead duck in anycase if Bluediamond goes away.

[7Mary3]

GMC salesman? Sorry, no. Been involved in fleet maintenance operations, municipal and utility. A little taste of public transit, too. GMC bias? I'll go on record as saying at the moment GMC has a better medium duty product (I like the visability better because the cab is higher and wider). Has not always been that way. Recent experience with Ford 650's and 750's has been so-so. I guess like you, I am P.O.'ed that Ford ran their commercial truck operations right into the ground. I know the reasons that Ford gave for this (slim profit margins), and I think there was truth to it. But that in itself is the problem. Rather than fix the situation, they sold out, ostensibly to make more 'high profit' light trucks and SUV's. How on earth was the HM80 Louisville supposed to fix that problem? Maybe in the long run if given the chance the HM80 would have been able to pull in more high margin small fleet and O/O sales, but 8 months after the first one was sold Ford announced the deal with Freightliner. Some chance. You are absolutely right about Ford's advertising. A quick check of the trade magazines I get ('Light and Medium Truck' included) supports your observations. In fact, I can't remember the last time I saw an ad devoted to the 650 and 750. I really hope Ford does have something new coming, and if they have to build it in Mexico to do it profitably, so be it. Until then, buy a Sterling.

Edited February 19, 2008 by 7Mary3

[elkarlo]

What is class 6, and 7? Is is the F-series 600/700's?

[RichardJensen]

Ford breaks out 650/750 as a single unit on their sales reports as "heavy trucks"

[Bob Rosadini]

Ford breaks out 650/750 as a single unit on their sales reports as "heavy trucks"

That is a good point. It then becomes a matter of checking the class 6 and 7 sales figures as reported vs Ford's "Heavy Truck" numbers same period. If 7Mary is correct, then the higher class 6,7 numbers as reported in the trade press will in fact be 550 sales.

 

7Mary- Ford does advertise 650/750 in two heavy construction mags I get- Construction Equipment and Equipment Today. For the last two years they run copy featuring a 750 dump. Kind of short on technical merits although they talk about its available 14,000 lb front axle, bolted frame and a few other goodies. Still, the "hairdresser" mentality comes out. Istead of showing the truck with a premium dump body, complete with auto load cover etc, they show it with a cheesy body and in fact, it has the tail gate release handle on the curb side! I have a son in the printing business and he explained how some technical aberation like that can happen but to me it shows a lack of attention to detail, indifference, or stupidity- or most likely all three. Pisses me off- In pariticular when my share basis is close to 23 bucks!

 

But what treally frosts my ass is when you look at the push Hino is putting on. Ford has the beachead and the question is will they surrender another product to Toyota. And we all know, Toyota can put a set of good looking wheels on a milk crate and it will get rave reviews! You can bet your ass while some idiot at Ford is making speeches about ..."focusing on our core business", Hino/Toyota will say..."thank you very much- we will take your non core business and WE will make money at it- in spite of the fact we have no dealer base".

[rmc523]

But Joe, I agree with you. They have good numbers and they don't try- they are brain dead. look at their marketing. They spend money in Heavy Duty Trucking and what is their add copy? A 450 dually pick up! Why spend money advertising a pick up truck in mag whose mere title implies "heavy duty"?

 

So, a truck that can tow 24,500 lbs isn't a "Heavy Duty" truck?

[Joe771476]

regarding the LCF's: The Ford/International venture is a dismal failure! The only chassis configuration is a long wheelbased chassis suitable for medium/long boxes. Why is the best selling LCF in the USA an Isuzu? Why doesn't Ford/International make short chassis for short boxed inner city delivery and short chassis suitable for landscapers which double as dumps and plow trucks? How can two companies screw up so badly?!

[7Mary3]

The Ford/International LCF was late to the party. The Isuzu NPR has a lot of very satisfied customers (a guy I do some consulting work for absolutely will not buy any other truck). It is tough to convince happy customers you have a better product. The Isuzu in addition to offering more wheelbase choices also has the gas engine option. That is a big selling feature where I am these days. One unique truck Ford had for a very brief time that I thought would be a big seller was the E-550 cut-away. I think it was dropped after less than one year.

[twintornados]

Now I know that Ford only owns a controlling share of Volvo cars, but I wonder if they refrain from some of the heavy duty truck market because of their ties with Volvo. Volvo is a pretty big player in that segment, and jumping in there would kinda be a slap in the face to one of your somewhat partners in business. Now maybe I'm completely wrong and they are planning to get back in, but it could make some sense.

 

Ford only owns Volvo Cars.....Volvo AB is a truck company and I knew at one point they (Volvo) also own Mack as well. Ford commanded the roads when they dominated in the class #6, 7, and 8 market....but dopes like Jac Nasser let that market fritter away while he was on a buying spree. Now, Ford is having a garage sale and unloading Jag, Land Rover, and possibly Volvo Cars to concentrate on Ford....

[Bob Rosadini]

The Ford/International LCF was late to the party. The Isuzu NPR has a lot of very satisfied customers (a guy I do some consulting work for absolutely will not buy any other truck). It is tough to convince happy customers you have a better product. The Isuzu in addition to offering more wheelbase choices also has the gas engine option. That is a big selling feature where I am these days. One unique truck Ford had for a very brief time that I thought would be a big seller was the E-550 cut-away. I think it was dropped after less than one year.

You are 100% correct on the E-550. It was a good seller and gaining ground. Friend of mine was managing a big Sterling Ford store when they dropped it and he was disappointed as they had made sales, the customers loved the truck and they were looking at repeat sales.

 

Oh as to someone's comment that .. a 24,000 lb towing capacity is not a "Heavy Duty Truc"- its not -we are talking about "Heavy Duty Trucks as in class 8- not pick up trucks. Don't confuse "heavy duty" as a marketing term vs "heavy Duty" as a GVW classification.

[7Mary3]

Not too sure why, but the E-550 was a big hit with the film studios here. Ever hear the reason why it was dropped? Seemed like a rather low cost truck to build, mainly a cross between a F-550 and an E-350 cut-away.

[Bob Rosadini]

Not too sure why, but the E-550 was a big hit with the film studios here. Ever hear the reason why it was dropped? Seemed like a rather low cost truck to build, mainly a cross between a F-550 and an E-350 cut-away.

If I had to guess, I would say it was a manufacturing issue. E's are built in Ohio right? so they had a line at KTP that was receiving E cabs and dropping on a 550 chassis. Plus with the commitment to build the LCF with is V-6 P'stroke, I would bet International leaned on them as they wanted to jump into the LCF class and Ford of course was not going to build E-550's for them.

 

By the way, looks like you are correct on the 550 numbers being in class 6. HDT's 07 YTD totals for 6 and 7 are 19,858 units. Per Richards suggestion, looking at the stats on BON they list 11,782 "heavy trucks and 3576 LCF's for a total of 14,858 or a difference of 5000. Then again, I find it hard to beleive that they built only 5000 550-s. I see a ton of them on a regular basis.

[7Mary3]

Is there a missing post here? Bob or someone found out that all F-550's are under 20k GVW. I checked one of mine, and though it is licensed for 20k, the GVW actually is 19,500lbs.. In other news, Navistar and Ford were unsuccessful in resolving their dispute, so it's back to the court house. Big surprise, huh?

[Bob Rosadini]

Is there a missing post here? Bob or someone found out that all F-550's are under 20k GVW. I checked one of mine, and though it is licensed for 20k, the GVW actually is 19,500lbs.. In other news, Navistar and Ford were unsuccessful in resolving their dispute, so it's back to the court house. Big surprise, huh?

&mary- You are right- Idid post something the other day to the effect that the 550 has a max gvw of 19,000lbs.- at least I think it was on this thread- its a bitch getting old!

 

As for the suit, hard to believe these two can't come to some resolution- As always, the only winners will be the lawyers.

 

On another note, did you see Daimler has formed a special "commercial truck" marketing group to target I assume class 3 to 5? They will be tough- unlike the idiots at Ford. Did you see the newest addition of "Work Truck"? There is a cover story on Super Duty with a picture of a 750. Does the article say anything about 650/750? Nope! As a matter of fact, it only mentions 250, 350 and 450! Do you conclude from this that they truly are downplaying the class 6/7's because they will in fact fold their tent? Or is because they are that stupid and some marketing genius says "Work truck" is the wrong venue for 650/750??? If you are offered a cover story, why wouldn't you cover your entire product mix??

 

Amazing

[NLPRacing]

If I had to guess, I would say it was a manufacturing issue. E's are built in Ohio right? so they had a line at KTP that was receiving E cabs and dropping on a 550 chassis. Plus with the commitment to build the LCF with is V-6 P'stroke, I would bet International leaned on them as they wanted to jump into the LCF class and Ford of course was not going to build E-550's for them.

 

By the way, looks like you are correct on the 550 numbers being in class 6. HDT's 07 YTD totals for 6 and 7 are 19,858 units. Per Richards suggestion, looking at the stats on BON they list 11,782 "heavy trucks and 3576 LCF's for a total of 14,858 or a difference of 5000. Then again, I find it hard to believe that they built only 5000 550-s. I see a ton of them on a regular basis.

 

There were a few Class C motorhomes built on the E550 as well. I've seen some from Gulf Stream & Dynamax, they were very nice. I wish Ford would put the E-Series cab on the F53 RV chassis to compete with the Kodiak chassis. I would love to replace my Class A with an E-550 Super C with a diesel.

[7Mary3]

Yes, I heard about Daimler Truck's new marketing group. It will include the Sterling Bullet and the lighter Mitsubishi Fuso's. I think that could be a potential problem for Ford as most of the former Ford dedicated medium/heavy dealers are now Ford/Sterling. In other news, Mitsubishi will abandon class 6 and larger after 2010. they don't want to spend the money to meet the new emission standards. I have a feeling that Isuzu may leave that market, too. The GM-Navistar deal includes the Isuzu F series, which will be built by Navistar with the Topkick and Kodiak until 2010. After that, no one seems to know what will happen to the Isuzu F series and GMC T series.