2009 Mazdaspeed 6

[igor]

Why does SVT need to be "Extreme"? For much of its first 10 years (its most successful years) SVT products were hardly extreme. They were just well-tuned, well-balanced versions of vehicles already on the market. Is there even a market for an uber-performance FUSION?

Because Ford wants to reserve it for extreme, limited number, usually off-the-line-finished products.

 

I think for a brand as coveted as SVT that fits - SVT might still be involved in the "lesser" performance vehicles but without their SVT moniker on it - remember ( I know I do not have to remind YOU) but SVT comes before the model name - it is Ford SVT Focus, not Ford Focus SVT.

 

The lesser trims - ST - will be much more common and much more mainstream. This is the same difference Europe has between ST and RS.

 

I am not positive there is market for extreme-performance SVT Fusion - but I am confident that if there was SVT Fusion in the works, it would have over 300hp.

 

IF they are just planning a 260-280hp D35 sporty Fusion, I am 10)% confident, it will have ST designation AFTER the model name instead of the SVT before. Ford Fusion ST.

 

Igor

[V8 Ford]

IIRC, the only ST in North America was the old Focus, and all that was a regular focus with different seat trim, a regular 2.3L Duratec, 4 wheel disk brakes and a bigger sway bar. If the sport fusion is more than just an D35, it would be more fitting with the SVT tradition of the SVT Contour and SVT Focus than Ford's North American ST. That's just speculation though, you've got much more inside knowledge into the future doings of Ford than I do.

[StevenCaylor]

I think I'd rather see the NA Focus stick with a less expensive ST model with the new 2.5L engine, 17" wheels/tires and 4 wheel disk brakes. The SVT should go with the AWD Fusion with an EB 3.5

Edited May 1, 2008 by StevenCaylor

[calypsocoral]

I think I'd rather see the NA Focus stick with a less expensive ST model with the new 2.5L engine, 17" wheels/tires and 4 wheel disk brakes. The SVT should go with the AWD Fusion with an EB 3.5

 

I don't think a naturally-aspirated 3.7L would be a bad idea. That engine could hit 300 hp EASILY with just a bit of re-tuning...

[regfootball]

at this point, i am just frustrated we have no defintive news on what is in store for the next fusiona and when it hits.

 

its bad enough mazda wussed out and is not selling the v6 with stick.

 

but ford is giving no vibe on when the eco boost hits, which v6 is in the fusion, and if manual trannies will be had. at launch or at any time.

 

quite honestly, the lack of information darn near pisses me off and may make me wait for the opel insignia instead. at least i have something to look at. Ford is giving nothing. the 010 taurus spy photos don't suggest anything that will ride and handle sporty, much less induce sleep by looking at it.

 

at a minimum if someone could assure me an ecoboost fusion with stick would be available at launch and would be affordable.....i'd have no reason to defect to another brand. the news coming out of ford these days is pathetic. at least we get to see things like the vw routan and chevy traverse several months in advance.

Edited May 3, 2008 by regfootball

[Extreme4x4]

I could be in the market for an SVT Fusion.

 

I have owned a 94 Lightning, and a 2001 Lightning. I will own an SVT Contour, if I can find a good one............. another first gen Lightning (still cry over getting rid of mine)............. and a 2001 Cobra Vert.

 

However, an SVT Fusion would probably eliminate the need for the SVT Contour.

[Noah Harbinger]

at this point, i am just frustrated we have no defintive news on what is in store for the next fusiona and when it hits.

 

its bad enough mazda wussed out and is not selling the v6 with stick.

 

but ford is giving no vibe on when the eco boost hits, which v6 is in the fusion, and if manual trannies will be had. at launch or at any time.

 

quite honestly, the lack of information darn near pisses me off and may make me wait for the opel insignia instead. at least i have something to look at. Ford is giving nothing. the 010 taurus spy photos don't suggest anything that will ride and handle sporty, much less induce sleep by looking at it.

 

at a minimum if someone could assure me an ecoboost fusion with stick would be available at launch and would be affordable.....i'd have no reason to defect to another brand. the news coming out of ford these days is pathetic. at least we get to see things like the vw routan and chevy traverse several months in advance.

 

It would be worth your defection to get you to shut up.

 

Other companies don't give away their models this far in advance, why should Ford put themselves at a disadvantage?

 

By the way, people have said don't hold your breath about having an Ecoboost at launch.

[silvrsvt]

By the way, people have said don't hold your breath about having an Ecoboost at launch.

 

I agree, though I think the Fusion would be the first product to have the EB 2.5L I4 in it, outside the Unibody Explorer

 

Speaking of the Explorer...anyone know what the status is of it? 2010-11 is right around the corner.

[Blueblood]

Well, I don't know if over 300 would be NEEDED. Certainly it would be nice. However, there's more to a sport sedan than power. If they can tune the suspension to give it a MUCH more sporting flair (think BMW) and do their normal round of body/brake/interior upgrades, it would be just fine by me. Oh, and it better have a manual transmission.

 

 

For an ST. And this is something that is probably 2 years away if not more if it is going to be a Fusion, right now, run of the mill family sleds like the Camry and Altima are sporting about 270 horsepower. SVT was never intended to make cars that are just as powerful as the competitions normal cars, that would be an absolute embarrassment. Power isn't everything, but it's a huge part of it, and the most important part of a performance car, and by CY 2010-2012 regular old V6 Camry's and Altima's might have 300 horse DI V6's, that number will be nothing special by then. I'd say to really stand out and pull in the enthusiast SVT crowd it would need to have at least 340 horsepower, and AWD. The only way I can think of them getting those numbers is an ecoboost D35 of course, and it would probably need some engine bay changes for it to all fit.

 

Suspension, braking, and body/interior mods are the easy part, we've seen how good SVT is at making their cars handle good over the years, they'd get that down. Throw some big Brembo's on it, new front clip, new rear bumber, dual exhaust, blacked out heads and tails, HID's/LED's, sportier interior with better gauges, supportive seats, and you'd have one kick ass car. Would be really cool if they could lighten it up a bit too and spank some STi's and Evo's.

 

I think a 4 cylinder is a possibility too, it would be a little lighter, and if they can get 275 horsepower out of a 2.0L ecoboost, then 300+ out of the 2.5 should be possible.

 

 

I think the amount of power it offers up would be dependent upon the price too. Hopefully SVT will go back to a day when their models didn't cost twice what the car they are based upon did.

 

What universe has that happened in? The 03-04 Cobra's were about 32k, if they were twice as much as a GT they would have cost about 45k, shady dealers that mark cars up aren't SVT's fault.

Edited May 3, 2008 by Blueblood

[Blueblood]

Well, I don't know if over 300 would be NEEDED. Certainly it would be nice. However, there's more to a sport sedan than power. If they can tune the suspension to give it a MUCH more sporting flair (think BMW) and do their normal round of body/brake/interior upgrades, it would be just fine by me. Oh, and it better have a manual transmission.

 

I think the amount of power it offers up would be dependent upon the price too. Hopefully SVT will go back to a day when their models didn't cost twice what the car they are based upon did.

 

Btw, recently, SVT has really stepped it up over their early years, the Terminators made about 160 horsepower more than the GT, and the GT500 is up 200 over the GT, the last L was up 120 over the regular F-150, and they worked on the GT as well. And the updated GT500 in 2011 looks to be a monster, and there's the wicked Raptor coming, so I don't see them half assing an SVT Fusion by making an Altima competitor. From the rumors I've heard, the coming stuff they are working on are to be ass kickers, not "sporty metrosexual BMW 328" clones.

 

I just hope the rumors are right.

Edited May 3, 2008 by Blueblood

[silvrsvt]

For an ST. And this is something that is probably 2 years away if not more if it is going to be a Fusion, right now, run of the mill family sleds like the Camry and Altima are sporting about 270 horsepower. SVT was never intended to make cars that are just as powerful as the competitions normal cars, that would be an absolute embarrassment. Power isn't everything, but it's a huge part of it, and the most important part of a performance car, and by CY 2010-2012 regular old V6 Camry's and Altima's might have 300 horse DI V6's, that number will be nothing special by then. I'd say to really stand out and pull in the enthusiast SVT crowd it would need to have at least 340 horsepower, and AWD. The only way I can think of them getting those numbers is an ecoboost D35 of course, and it would probably need some engine bay changes for it to all fit.

 

but the vast majority of CD car sales have a I4 in them, not a V6.

 

In all seriousness, is there really a need to put 300 HP in a everyday mid-sized car, esp in light of $4 dollar gas? I think manufactures are going to focus more on increasing MPG then HP in the coming years...

[ANTAUS]

"By the way, people have said don't hold your breath about having an Ecoboost at launch."

 

I dont think many have...people already have the expectation that Ford can't get the right engine out at launch....

[Noah Harbinger]

"By the way, people have said don't hold your breath about having an Ecoboost at launch."

 

I dont think many have...people already have the expectation that Ford can't get the right engine out at launch....

 

The person I was replying to seemed to think it was a possibility.

[MERKURXR4Ti]

but the vast majority of CD car sales have a I4 in them, not a V6.

 

In all seriousness, is there really a need to put 300 HP in a everyday mid-sized car, esp in light of $4 dollar gas? I think manufactures are going to focus more on increasing MPG then HP in the coming years...

 

There is rarely a need. Is there a need for a 500hp mustang? People will buy an svt fusion in small numbers.

 

I hope it comes with say 320hp at least to remain competitive, my guess is they will gun for the 335i in performance.

[silvrsvt]

There is rarely a need. Is there a need for a 500hp mustang? People will buy an svt fusion in small numbers.

 

I hope it comes with say 320hp at least to remain competitive, my guess is they will gun for the 335i in performance.

 

 

No, I agree with you, but do you truly need a 300HP Camry or Altima as a bread and butter model as blueblood was pointing out? All the Japanese CD sized cars don't offer any inkling of a "performance" branded model in their lineups, where it would make sense....thus where my comments where coming from.

[NickF1011]

Two little things I noticed in your response:

 

For an ST. And this is something that is probably 2 years away if not more if it is going to be a Fusion, right now, run of the mill family sleds like the Camry and Altima are sporting about 270 horsepower. SVT was never intended to make cars that are just as powerful as the competitions normal cars, that would be an absolute embarrassment.

 

How much power did the 1998 Camaro Z28 make? Oh yeah. The same power as the 1998 Cobra.

 

 

What universe has that happened in? The 03-04 Cobra's were about 32k, if they were twice as much as a GT they would have cost about 45k, shady dealers that mark cars up aren't SVT's fault.

 

If they didn't waste theirt time slapping Shelby's name on crap and spent more time just building cars, they wouldn't have huge markups. There weren't giant markups on previous SVT vehicles. In fact, they rarely were more than a few thousand dollar premium over the next trim level below it. I paid $26,750 for my 1997 Cobra brand new. That was only about $3200 more than a loaded Mustang GT at the time.

 

And yes, the Terminators were a steal. But unfortunately, that was the end of an era for SVT. Now we get GT500's with a 50% premium over a Mustang GT. Keeping that model in tact, you'd expect an SVT Fusion to come in somewhere around $36-37K. No thanks.

[Blueblood]

Two little things I noticed in your response:

 

 

 

How much power did the 1998 Camaro Z28 make? Oh yeah. The same power as the 1998 Cobra.

 

 

And that has what to do with the subject?

 

I heard there's a tree on Neptune made out of frozen milk.

 

 

If they didn't waste theirt time slapping Shelby's name on crap and spent more time just building cars, they wouldn't have huge markups. There weren't giant markups on previous SVT vehicles. In fact, they rarely were more than a few thousand dollar premium over the next trim level below it. I paid $26,750 for my 1997 Cobra brand new. That was only about $3200 more than a loaded Mustang GT at the time.

 

And yes, the Terminators were a steal. But unfortunately, that was the end of an era for SVT. Now we get GT500's with a 50% premium over a Mustang GT. Keeping that model in tact, you'd expect an SVT Fusion to come in somewhere around $36-37K. No thanks.

 

Well I wouldn't expect a SVT Fusion to have Shelby's name on it (I hope), so I don't think that would be an issue here. And cars keep getting more expensive, what can you do? The days of 20k GT's are over.

 

But anyways I just read that no SVT Fusion exists over on the SVT board, so this mystery third SVT vehicle might not exist at all as far as I'm concerned, that would leave what exactly? The focus? The Taurus? The Focus wouldn't have an SVT version until the all new one comes out next decade, and the Taurus would make as much sense as a SVT Town Car. So yea it does suck, If you're a Ford nut and you want any sort of performance you have to either get a Mustang GT, or if you want something nicer win the lottery so you can afford a Shelby or a GT. Makes me want a G8 more and more..

[NickF1011]

And that has what to do with the subject?

 

It has everything to do with it. SVT made the earlier Cobras fantastically well-rounded vehicles without having to trump everything on the market in power by a significant margin. Using the same formula that originally made SVT a success, they wouldn't necessarily need to make an SVT Fusion have balls-to-the-wall power to make it a highly desirable and well-balanced vehicle. Only point I was making there. Without some fancy 300+ HP powertrain, they could also probably keep the price down to a realistic and marketable level too.

[silvrsvt]

If they didn't waste theirt time slapping Shelby's name on crap and spent more time just building cars, they wouldn't have huge markups. There weren't giant markups on previous SVT vehicles. In fact, they rarely were more than a few thousand dollar premium over the next trim level below it. I paid $26,750 for my 1997 Cobra brand new. That was only about $3200 more than a loaded Mustang GT at the time.

 

 

On the other hand, Ford still had leftover SVT products at the end of the Model year...AFAIK, they don't have that problem with the Shebly Mustangs. I know over the years I've seen Ford offer rebates on SVT products and they haven't so far with the GT500. Ford is limiting production of the car which is a good thing for them, but we as consumers are getting raped by the dealerships because of this. It boils down to supply and demand.

 

Without a markup the GT500 is priced in line with the old SVT Cobra, but with the ADM's on them well they aren't worth it.

[NickF1011]

On the other hand, Ford still had leftover SVT products at the end of the Model year...AFAIK, they don't have that problem with the Shebly Mustangs. I know over the years I've seen Ford offer rebates on SVT products and they haven't so far with the GT500. Ford is limiting production of the car which is a good thing for them, but we as consumers are getting raped by the dealerships because of this. It boils down to supply and demand.

 

Without a markup the GT500 is priced in line with the old SVT Cobra, but with the ADM's on them well they aren't worth it.

 

The only SVT product they had severe overstocking issues with was the SVT Focus, which was agreeably their worst product to date. You must also consider than in the earlier days of SVT, there were a far fewer number of dealers that were even allowed to sell them, which surely contributed some to having leftovers.

 

The GT500 isn't in line with the old SVT Cobra, even without ADM's. You're talking about a roughly $10,000 MSRP increase from the '04 Cobra to the GT500.

[silvrsvt]

The GT500 isn't in line with the old SVT Cobra, even without ADM's. You're talking about a roughly $10,000 MSRP increase from the '04 Cobra to the GT500.

 

Hey Nick, might want to try again:

 

2004 Mustang Cobra: $34,200

2007 GT500: $40,930

 

Just in relation:

 

2004 Mustang GT Premium: $25,040

2008 Mustang GT Premium: $29,480

[NickF1011]

Hey Nick, might want to try again:

 

2004 Mustang Cobra: $34,200

2007 GT500: $40,930

 

Just in relation:

 

2004 Mustang GT Premium: $25,040

2008 Mustang GT Premium: $29,480

 

$40,930 for an '07 GT500? I thought they were closer to $43K. Guess my memory is a little off. In either case, the pricing schema for the Mustang applied to the Fusion would leave us with a Fusion that not many people would be willing to pay for.

[silvrsvt]

$40,930 for an '07 GT500? I thought they were closer to $43K. Guess my memory is a little off.

 

If you want a vert you'd be right

[Sparks]

I'm somewhat torn on what would make a great engine lineup for next-gen fusion. I think the new 2.5 is a great addition for the 4-cyl base model. I really think it's power/efficiency has the potential to put it among the front-runners in this category.

 

After the base model, I think it gets a little tricky.

 

It looks like we're getting the PIP 3.0L (240hp). But there are other options as well. We could do the 3.5 (265hp) or even the 3.7 (275hp). I know the mks has a preliminary rating of 270hp 265tq, but I think at least have 280hp SAE certified.

 

I think the following lineup would be great:

 

2010 Ford Fusion SE I4 (2.5L 170hp, 170tq; 22mpg city, 33mpg highway)

2010 Ford Fusion SEL V6 (3.5 263hp, 260tq; 20mpg city, 29mpg highway)

2010 Ford SVT Fusion V6 AWD (EcoBoost 3.5 TTGDI, 340hp, 340tq, 18mpg city, 25mpg highway)

[V8 Ford]

Ford must be getting some pretty good fuel economy numbers out of the PIP 3.0, or still have production capacity issues with the 3.5 if they're going with the PIP 3.0 in the 09 Fusion; In addition to the superior performance, I've been told that the 3.5 is cheaper to build and got better fuel economy numbers than the current 3.0.