RichardJensen Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Igor have you heard that one of the reasons the C1 was dropped for N.A. was a fear that the C1 4 door Focus would cannabilize sales from the up coming , higher margin, Fusion which came out in 2006? No Fusion selling for Focus prices would be 'high margin' compared to the Focus. A $20k Focus probably grosses more profit than a $20k Fusion. Why? Because the luxury add-ons almost always carry higher margins than the base car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 of course - although a D35 Eco boost might be still pushing it for the Fusion-class vehicles. It does not fit right now, and it might not in the future - it is a lot of plumbing to fit under the hood, and 350hp is quite a punch for such a light and small vehicle. They might just stick with something smaller - like I4 EB's (Volvo's I5 and I6 engines still have uncertain future - they are not as powerful as the V6 engines, are thirstier, and more expensive to build, but as far as I know they have not been killed yet). Igor Sorry, the 2.0 EB was what I had in mind. Speaking of Volvo, I feel they're getting rid of the I5 to FOE (just like P2/D3 platform) because they're going to be gone eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I like new product, but replacing successfully targeted American tailored products with imports concerns me at first glance. I do hope that these products are more cooperative than the Focus and Contour. The Fiesta does not have much domestic input and I'm afraid that might cause some problems when it comes time to selling them to real consumers (I'm sure all of us and the auto rags will love the lack of American input). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted May 22, 2008 Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 Igor, any thoughts about the production site for the Focus (the article says the U.S.)? Will the platform mates be manufactured alongside the Focus at the same plant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noub Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 The bad thing for ford is that those product B/C cars and even the new small trucks (F100 and global ranger) will only come to the market within 2 and 3 years. I think by the end of 2011, for will have a tremendous line up but they need wait 2 years before the small cars/trucks replacement begins. This is the MAJOR ISSUE, gas prices are rising now !! They need somehow to increase sales of the current focus and ranger to keep being in the market. Even the success of the 2010 fusion becomes tremendously important. They need to reach a higher level and move 25'000 to 30'000 of them each month. The question now is how they would decrease their capacity for buildind trucks and in the meantime increase their production capacity for cars. Will Wayne be dedicated to C1 based products ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Sorry, the 2.0 EB was what I had in mind. Speaking of Volvo, I feel they're getting rid of the I5 to FOE (just like P2/D3 platform) because they're going to be gone eventually. They should kill the I5 off. The I5 only gets 1 mpg better efficiency over the larger I6. If they built a smaller I6 it would get the same or better efficiency than the old I5. As for the Volvo I6. Just add the technology from the Ford 3.5 L V6. That will get the cost down and the power up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 of course - although a D35 Eco boost might be still pushing it for the Fusion-class vehicles. It does not fit right now, and it might not in the future - it is a lot of plumbing to fit under the hood, and 350hp is quite a punch for such a light and small vehicle. They might just stick with something smaller - like I4 EB's (Volvo's I5 and I6 engines still have uncertain future - they are not as powerful as the V6 engines, are thirstier, and more expensive to build, but as far as I know they have not been killed yet). Igor If the newest technology is appied I think the I-6 will work in the next Fusion. But Ford will have to take a very careful look into it. If they have to build it to take both a I6 and V6 the vehicle will end up too heavy. They will be better to kill the I6 and use the V6 in both Ford and Volvo than make the vehicle to take both engines. I think there is value in a smaller and cheaper I6 for Europe. If you add EB, it would be perfect for USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 They should kill the I5 off. The I5 only gets 1 mpg better efficiency over the larger I6. If they built a smaller I6 it would get the same or better efficiency than the old I5. As for the Volvo I6. Just add the technology from the Ford 3.5 L V6. That will get the cost down and the power up. I think that's the direction Volvo is going. A newer I4 is out (based on the I5 but it came out in 2004?), a new diesel which we won't see and the 3.2 I6 which can be fitted with High and/or Low-pressure Turbo. As for the 4.4L V8, that's going to be around for a while. I think the I5s been put in Fords are convienent for both parties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 (edited) If the newest technology is appied I think the I-6 will work in the next Fusion. But Ford will have to take a very careful look into it. If they have to build it to take both a I6 and V6 the vehicle will end up too heavy. They will be better to kill the I6 and use the V6 in both Ford and Volvo than make the vehicle to take both engines. I think there is value in a smaller and cheaper I6 for Europe. If you add EB, it would be perfect for USA. It could but I doubt it. The I5 in the C1 Focus ST and RS is conveinent because the factory is not far away and the engine is rumored to be discontinued. This is speculation because I have no info backing that up. As for the I6 in a Fusion, I don't see the point because of the current efforts with the Cyclone family and EcoBoost. A transverse I6 in the CD3 could widen the turning radius (a bane for Volvos) while the Cyclone is a compact design. Include the logistics of importing I6's in limited numbers (ref. I5 Turbos to Focus, S-Max and Transit Connect Concept) while Cyclones are been built in Lima. It doesn't make sense unless you want to retool Windsor from Modular to Volvo which is a spitball idea I just came up with and most likely won't happen. As for a Cyclone in a Volvo, again the logistics of a factory in Europe making a brand new I6 and importing Cyclones for Volvos: 1. Too expensive and, 2. The emotive (and ridiculous) response of a "POS Ford engine in a Volvo". I'm just spitballing here, I could be wrong. Edited May 23, 2008 by Hugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMDEE Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Is there any reason this discussion is completely ignoring the upgraded 3 liter, 240 HP V6 currently being released in the US in the 09 Escape? It's apparently scheduled to become the V6 in the 2010 Fusion and Milan. With 240 HP, it's already putting out more power than BMWs naturally aspirated 3 liter I6, and more than the na Volvo I6. Can the EB technologies - direct injection and maybe turbos - be fitted to this engine? Or is there a 3 liter version of the 3.5 going to come along? Anyone know? Direct injection alone could add another 20 or 30 HP to the 3 liter, which would put it in the league of the Honda and Toyota 3.5 V6s (and Ford's). The Fusion and Milan probably couldn't handle any more power than that, at least not the current versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Maybe because Honda had a 3.0L making 240HP in the last generation Accord...so this isn't anything orgasmic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Maybe because Honda had a 3.0L making 240HP in the last generation Accord...so this isn't anything orgasmic? Premium or regular? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 As I understand it, Accord used regular. Ford also had the Duratec 3.0L in the LS making 232HP, while Jag had the 240HP version, both on premium though. Maybe the big whoop-de-doo this time is that its achieving 240HP, with regular fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 As I understand it, Accord used regular. Ford also had the Duratec 3.0L in the LS making 232HP, while Jag had the 240HP version, both on premium though. Maybe the big whoop-de-doo this time is that its achieving 240HP, with regular fuel. I care more about torque, the 3.0L is giving up about 50 ft. lbs to the 3.5L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 While a 240 hp 3.0 V6 sounds OK, I'm thinking it's future will be cut short by the I-4 Ecoboost. The vast majority of Fusions sold are I-4s so the 2.5 with 6-speed auto is the major engine. It would be logical for Ford to offer the NA I-4, Hybrid and an Ecoboost I-4. The key is when are the Ecoboost I-4s due? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Is there any reason this discussion is completely ignoring the upgraded 3 liter, 240 HP V6 currently being released in the US in the 09 Escape? It's apparently scheduled to become the V6 in the 2010 Fusion and Milan. With 240 HP, it's already putting out more power than BMWs naturally aspirated 3 liter I6, and more than the na Volvo I6. Can the EB technologies - direct injection and maybe turbos - be fitted to this engine? Or is there a 3 liter version of the 3.5 going to come along? Anyone know? Direct injection alone could add another 20 or 30 HP to the 3 liter, which would put it in the league of the Honda and Toyota 3.5 V6s (and Ford's). The Fusion and Milan probably couldn't handle any more power than that, at least not the current versions. IIRC, Cleveland Engine Plant 1(?) has only one line for Duratec 30 PIP. There is indication the line will be retooled for Cyclone/Duratec 35. As for it been in the 2010 Fusion/Milan, I've heard D35 not D30 PIP. I don't see the point in putting effort in a engine which is on the way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 As I understand it, Accord used regular. Ford also had the Duratec 3.0L in the LS making 232HP, while Jag had the 240HP version, both on premium though. Maybe the big whoop-de-doo this time is that its achieving 240HP, with regular fuel. There were two versions of the D30 (ref. Wiki). I am not sure which one they used for PIP but I believe it's the lesser powered one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Martin Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Why dosen't Ford give these new European models to Mercury, and make it a completely new Mercury! This would at least give buyers another line to look at, in the case that they don't want a Ford model. It could also make Mercury the new European Division. I think it would be a great way to resurect the Mercury Division, and make it more than just a rebadged Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Why dosen't Ford give these new European models to Mercury, and make it a completely new Mercury! This would at least give buyers another line to look at, in the case that they don't want a Ford model. It could also make Mercury the new European Division. I think it would be a great way to resurect the Mercury Division, and make it more than just a rebadged Ford. Not this tired argument again. Simple. Ford of Europe's vehicles cannot become Mercurys because Ford of Europe's vehicles are becoming Ford of North America's vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Why dosen't Ford give these new European models to Mercury, and make it a completely new Mercury! This would at least give buyers another line to look at, in the case that they don't want a Ford model. It could also make Mercury the new European Division. I think it would be a great way to resurect the Mercury Division, and make it more than just a rebadged Ford. If the plan was to have FOE and FOA as different companies, then this would be a good idea. But the plan is to have one Ford. The few future FOE cars that won't be sold in the US will not sell in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 If the plan was to have FOE and FOA as different companies, then this would be a good idea. But the plan is to have one Ford. The few future FOE cars that won't be sold in the US will not sell in the US. Hey, I have an idea....why not have Mercury continue the "American" styling...it seems to be working for them now....oh wait... Actually, if some style was injected into Mercury's designs, an "American" Mercury could possibly work alongside the "Euro-yet-American" Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 Hey, I have an idea....why not have Mercury continue the "American" styling...it seems to be working for them now....oh wait... Actually, if some style was injected into Mercury's designs, an "American" Mercury could possibly work alongside the "Euro-yet-American" Ford. I would say that's a better idea. I would say by and large Mercury's clientele are more "traditional" than Ford's customers. Just might work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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