Chevy and Dodge Pony Cars DOA?

[suv_guy_19]

Work buys me my Filet Mignon once a week. Sometimes you get tired of it though and i indulge in a lovely blackened halibut with a Guinness or two. :D

 

In all seriousness, that particular restaraunt has a dish called "the glory hole" thats a petite filet mignon topped with crab. Ooooh its delicious and so overtly decadent :D

 

 

Oh, how I miss being in the city and getting to have to choose between several very good restaurants for lunch once a week. How I miss my NY strip and Filet Mignon.

Edited May 24, 2008 by suv_guy_19

[Moby Vic]

I wouldn't eat anything with "glory hole" in the name.

[TomServo92]

I wouldn't eat anything with "glory hole" in the name.

 

[Tico]

What I was trying to say was, like the turck and suv market, the pony car market is gonna shrink not grow in the next few years. Can there really be 3 or more players in a market that is getting smaller not bigger? Mustang has survived this in the past by getting smaller. Also with the engines that are possible now a days smaller does not have to equal less fun. I think Ford can do it. The question was can Chevy or Dodge do it? Anyone care to address these quetions rather than just post wild rants?!

Edited May 26, 2008 by Tico

[Sixt9coug]

I wouldn't eat anything with "glory hole" in the name.

 

 

when we go there with a new batch of people (remember, it IS a business dinner) i can always tell when someone finds the "glory hole" on the menu. You look off to the side, hear a little snikering, and you see them show the menu to the guy next to them as they point and snicker some more... its funny

[Moby Vic]

What I was trying to say was, like the turck and suv market, the pony car market is gonna shrink not grow in the next few years. Can there really be 3 or more players in a market that is getting smaller not bigger? Mustang has survived this in the past by getting smaller. Also with the engines that are possible now a days smaller does not have to equal less fun. I think Ford can do it. The question was can Chevy or Dodge do it? Anyone care to address these quetions rather than just post wild rants?!

 

We need a 21st century Fox body. Take the next generation Focus, make it RWD, and stick a V8 in it. I love the looks of the S197, but it's too big. It feels more like driving my Crown Vic than like driving a Mustang.

[Sixt9coug]

What I was trying to say was, like the turck and suv market, the pony car market is gonna shrink not grow in the next few years. Can there really be 3 or more players in a market that is getting smaller not bigger? Mustang has survived this in the past by getting smaller. Also with the engines that are possible now a days smaller does not have to equal less fun. I think Ford can do it. The question was can Chevy or Dodge do it? Anyone care to address these quetions rather than just post wild rants?!

 

 

going ON topic however, i do agree that part of the reason of the Mustangs success has been that it has been able to adapt and carve out the direction of the market on its own over the years. Look at the current retro design language of the Dodge and GM boys for example. It started back in 94 with the SN95s and has continued to this day.

 

Im all for downsizing the Mustang a touch, and even open to the possibility of a turbo 4 as a lower end engine, or even a Turbo 6 as a special model. Every Mustang doesnt HAVE to have a V8, but it should offer one. Base models are fair game as far as i am concerned for different powertrains, but i would LOVE the next progressive models of the Mustang to gradually decrease in weight.

Edited May 26, 2008 by Sixt9coug

[Moby Vic]

It started back in 94 with the SN95s and has continued to this day.

 

... which the automotive world refuses to acknowldedge. The unique thing about the retro '94s (through the '98s at least) was that they blended the retro theme with the aero theme.

[Blueblood]

What I was trying to say was, like the turck and suv market, the pony car market is gonna shrink not grow in the next few years. Can there really be 3 or more players in a market that is getting smaller not bigger? Mustang has survived this in the past by getting smaller. Also with the engines that are possible now a days smaller does not have to equal less fun. I think Ford can do it. The question was can Chevy or Dodge do it? Anyone care to address these quetions rather than just post wild rants?!

 

The 2010 Mustang is lighter.

[Moby Vic]

How much? And how did they lighten it?

[NickF1011]

How much? And how did they lighten it?

 

New lighter materials. Probably some more aluminum. I've also heard the new seat frames alone are worth a 15-20 lb reduction in weight.

[96 Pony]

... which the automotive world refuses to acknowldedge. The unique thing about the retro '94s (through the '98s at least) was that they blended the retro theme with the aero theme.

 

Ah yes. One of the best designed Mustangs IMHO. Until the retro Thunderbird came out that was one of the few cars that literally caused me to stop and go "Whoa!" :shades:

 

I miss my pony. -_-

 

As for the Challenger and Crapmaro's long-term survival I am not sure. The mullets will snap up the Camaros for a few years. I could see it outselling Mustang for the first year, but after that I don't think it will have the following it once had with that bizarre styling. Challenger will probably follow in Chrysler's habit of coming out with something that gets a lot of attention for awhile but then they will fail to capitalize on it correctly.

 

I also think we will be heading to a Mustang II era shortly. Probably the first of the three pony cars that comes out with a fuel efficient model will be the long-term sales leader.

[Moby Vic]

I could see it outselling Mustang for the first year, but after that I don't think it will have the following it once had with that bizarre styling.

 

I can't see that happening. It will be too expensive.

[snooter]

I can't see that happening. It will be too expensive.

while we are at it,,,lets revive charlies angles as well...good marketing for the new stangII...and lets not forget to add lots of stickers and fake scoops....mustang ghia would be nice as well

Edited May 26, 2008 by snooter

[timmm55]

while we are at it,,,lets revive charlies angles as well...good marketing for the new stangII...and lets not forget to add lots of stickers and fake scoops....mustang ghia would be nice as well

 

Or a smaller Mustang II could go waaaaay back to the original idea: http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...showtopic=23792

[Deanh]

New lighter materials. Probably some more aluminum. I've also heard the new seat frames alone are worth a 15-20 lb reduction in weight.

flashback to the BIG guy that snapped his Fusion seats then bitched Ford wouldn't fix em..........

[silvrsvt]

flashback to the BIG guy that snapped his Fusion seats then bitched Ford wouldn't fix em..........

 

I thought it was a Focus? And putting 300+ plus weight on anything outside of a reinforced steel frame is asking for problems...

[LM4EVR]

I wouldn't shrink the Mustang. Make it more fuel efficient, yes. And maybe a touch lighter, but not smaller. Cars lose too much character when they get too small.

 

The Challenger is a much different car from the Mustang. It is a much bigger car. I think it can succeed with a fuel efficent six in both sporty and personal luxury versions. And of course high end, high performance versions. It doesn't seem to compete directly with Mustang.

 

The Camaro I think will bomb. Where I see the Challenger and Mustang as indirect competitors the Camaro seems too fat to compete with the Mustang and too small to compete with the Challenger.

Edited May 26, 2008 by LM4EVR

[96 Pony]

I wouldn't shrink the Mustang. Make it more fuel efficient, yes. And maybe a touch lighter, but not smaller. Cars lose too much character when they get too small.

 

The Challenger is a much different car from the Mustang. It is a much bigger car. I think it can succeed with a fuel efficent six in both sporty and personal luxury versions. And of course high end, high performance versions. It doesn't seem to compete directly with Mustang.

 

The Camaro I think will bomb. Where I see the Challenger and Mustang as indirect competitors the Camaro seems too fat to compete with the Mustang and too small to compete with the Challenger.

 

I agree. The Challenger is so much better than the Crapmaro in so many ways. It will never outsell Mustang but of the two (Camaro and Challenger) I think the Challenger has the upper hand.

 

I can't see that happening. It will be too expensive.

 

The mullets have been waiting years for a new Camaro. They'd rather buy a foreign POS than go to a Mustang.

 

Those old '90's Firebirds/Camaros up on blocks in the front year have to come down!

[Deanh]

I thought it was a Focus? And putting 300+ plus weight on anything outside of a reinforced steel frame is asking for problems...

cannot rightfully remember the car...DO remember the guys thread....and FORDS WARRANTY SUCKED...LOL!

[Blueblood]

I agree. The Challenger is so much better than the Crapmaro in so many ways. It will never outsell Mustang but of the two (Camaro and Challenger) I think the Challenger has the upper hand.

 

How do you know it's better? It isn't even out yet!

 

 

 

 

The mullets have been waiting years for a new Camaro. They'd rather buy a foreign POS than go to a Mustang.

 

Those old '90's Firebirds/Camaros up on blocks in the front year have to come down!

 

Lots of Camaro guys have bought Mustangs over the past several years, now they will have a Camaro again, and a far superior to the old catfish inspired junker GM sold last.

[retro-man]

I wouldn't shrink the Mustang. Make it more fuel efficient, yes. And maybe a touch lighter, but not smaller. Cars lose too much character when they get too small.

 

The Challenger is a much different car from the Mustang. It is a much bigger car. I think it can succeed with a fuel efficent six in both sporty and personal luxury versions. And of course high end, high performance versions. It doesn't seem to compete directly with Mustang.

 

The Camaro I think will bomb. Where I see the Challenger and Mustang as indirect competitors the Camaro seems too fat to compete with the Mustang and too small to compete with the Challenger.

The 2008 Mustang is 6" longer (187.6" vs. 181"), 6" wider (74" vs. 68.2"), 3" taller (54.5" vs. 51.1"), and 900 lbs. heavier (3450 lbs. vs. 2556 lbs.) than the 1965 Mustang. Park my son's '65 next to a Camry, and the Camry looks huge. I think the Mustang could get substantially smaller, and still be a Mustang. In fact, compared to its distant roots, the new car (beautiful though it is) looks like a bloated tick. Working on weight savings is a must. I know all the safety stuff comes with a weight penalty, but there must be some technology to apply somewhere to get it down. Lightweight composites? Finite element analysis engineering? Aluminum vs. steel?

 

I think the Camaro and the Challenger (which I really really like - it's just 5 or 10 years late to the game) will sell a handful to enthusiasts, and shortly go the way of the SSR, the Prowler, and - unfortunately - the GT. Then after a few years become auction staples like their predecessors. The Mustang I have no doubt, will soldier on for another 40 years. In one form or another.

[Blueblood]

How much? And how did they lighten it?

 

I was told just slightly lighter, so I wouldn't expect much, but any weight loss these days is good, considering most cars gain weight every re-design with all the added safety features and electronic gadgets going into them.

 

I don't know how, but I'm sure there are lots of things that can be made out of aluminum or plastic that are currently made of steel.

[96 Pony]

How do you know it's better? It isn't even out yet!

 

True. I am just basing that what I have read and seen. Right now it looks as tho the Blue Tie boys missed the mark yet again.

 

Lots of Camaro guys have bought Mustangs over the past several years, now they will have a Camaro again, and a far superior to the old catfish inspired junker GM sold last.

 

Please quote facts to back up that statement.

[NickF1011]

Please quote facts to back up that statement.

 

What kind of facts do you need to support that statement? I'm sure plenty of previous Camaro owners have bought newer Mustangs. There's really no reason to doubt that. I know several personally.

 

As for saying its better. Heck. It's many years later. EVERY car out now is superior to its equivalent that was designed over 15 years ago. The new Camaro will be better than the old one. I don't see how that could be argued.