Deanh Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Nice dodge there P. Talking out of our behind again.................. eh P??? Big surprise. :rolleyes: Chad Johnson would be proud of that sidestep.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Ok, lets play the P game................. Name all of the diesel cars currently available in the US. Please list price and fuel economy. If you list one car that is "coming" then you are disqualified based on your own hypocrisy. LOL Dean................ we both posted at the same time. high five...LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 lets do some simple math here....cost on eco boost ...APPARENTLY $700 premium, vaporware diesels...guesstimate $2500....cost of diesel approx 125% cost of regular gas....if they get within 5-8 mpgs of each other which is the more sensible move? that means if the verve gets 40 the diesel would have to get 50 to BREAK EVEN with the fuel costs of the gas engine.....hmmmm, now add in the extra maintenence cost.....all this is pure speculation of course, and sure do hope these engines live up to expectation or the egg on some of our faces will resemble an omelete.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 That is not the point. The point is that others can make a diesel that conforms to US emission standards. And have any of those who have managed to do it put one into a B-car yet? The profit margins just don't exist in that segment to justify the investment, at least not at present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 And have any of those who have managed to do it put one into a B-car yet? The profit margins just don't exist in that segment to justify the investment, at least not at present. personally I think it is terrific given the propensity of all the damn B car diesels that populate the Bclass sector that Ford is at least developing an alternative in gasoline eco-boost....to not have choices is communism, and to have diesel shoved down ones throat is annoying to say the least! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Can they? Yes they can... Please name 1 high volume 50-state diesel car. COMPLETELY irrelevant. Nice dodge there P. Talking out of our behind again.................. eh P??? What dodge? All I stated was that there were manufacturers out there that have made a diesel that conforms to US regs. What do you dispute about that statement? Is it not true? You and Dean brought up things that are not pertinent to my statement. And have any of those who have managed to do it put one into a B-car yet? None. But that has nothing to do with my original statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 None. But that has nothing to do with my original statement. That's our point. Your original statement is idiotic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 IIRC, the Fiesta is arriving with the Ford/Getrag transmission. With this in mind, it would be reasonable to expect a decent standard engine. Whether the price point would allow standard VVT is a consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Ford Focus ECOnetic has led a 38 per cent sales surge in the first half of this year in Europe, the idiotic Econetic diesel should be banned from Blue Oval no doubt a success story is not allowed, gotta say the new Fiesta design is firing on all cylinders it should be a big hit for Ford in Europe and models fitted with the ECOnetic engines will be a huge sales winner for Ford. +38% Sales are idiotic Nick? http://www.greencarsite.co.uk/GREENNEWS/Ne...%20Econetic.htm The Fiesta is a car for the female buyer l wish Ford marketing men would drop the stupid dogbot adverts as most women are not interested in the mechanical side of a car and what it offers, most would be more interested a biggest possible vanity mirror under that Ford can get under the sun visor so they can check their hair and that they have no big bogies up their nose on display. You can see the Fiesta dogbot advert was made a men and not a woman, new Fiesta adverts need to woo their market that buys the car and thats women. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIEOilFR2Qg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 +38% Sales are idiotic Nick? Another one who completely misses the point.... NOBODY offers a diesel in a B-car in the US. It's pretty likely NOBODY will for quite awhile either. The profit margins just DON'T exist. Could it increase Fiesta sales 38% in the US compared to what it would otherwise do? Maybe. Probably not, but maybe. Would Ford lose money on every single one of those additional 38% of diesel Fiesta sales in the US? DEFINITELY yes. There's no maybe. No probably. DEFINITELY. So please, justify bringing the EcoNetic diesel here. By all means. I'll be waiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Another one who completely misses the point.... NOBODY offers a diesel in a B-car in the US. It's pretty likely NOBODY will for quite awhile either. The profit margins just DON'T exist. Could it increase Fiesta sales 38% in the US compared to what it would otherwise do? Maybe. Probably not, but maybe. Would Ford lose money on every single one of those additional 38% of diesel Fiesta sales in the US? DEFINITELY yes. There's no maybe. No probably. DEFINITELY. So please, justify bringing the EcoNetic diesel here. By all means. I'll be waiting. ok...Ford could be the first to attempt marketing a 30k domestic small car...after all bragging rights are everythiing right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 From what I have heard or gleaned from the info is the American Fiesta will have 1.6L gasoline I4 and pull 39mpg highway in optimum form and probably 28-30mpg in city driving. The engine will have about 115hp and I'm guessing 9.5 sec. in 0-60 time. I would hope price target will be $13,999.00 in stripped form with most selling in $16,000-18,000 range. That gives Focus ability to upscale some more to $18,000-$23,000 range. After all, in these new times Ford will have to make profit selling high volume small cars. European based Fusion will move further upscale and Taurus will be quasi-luxury car....poor man's Lincoln. Where else can Ford go and make money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Ford Focus ECOnetic has led a 38 per cent sales surge in the first half of this year in Europe, the idiotic Econetic diesel should be banned from Blue Oval no doubt a success story is not allowed, gotta say the new Fiesta design is firing on all cylinders it should be a big hit for Ford in Europe and models fitted with the ECOnetic engines will be a huge sales winner for Ford. +38% Sales are idiotic Nick? http://www.greencarsite.co.uk/GREENNEWS/Ne...%20Econetic.htm The Fiesta is a car for the female buyer l wish Ford marketing men would drop the stupid dogbot adverts as most women are not interested in the mechanical side of a car and what it offers, most would be more interested a biggest possible vanity mirror under that Ford can get under the sun visor so they can check their hair and that they have no big bogies up their nose on display. You can see the Fiesta dogbot advert was made a men and not a woman, new Fiesta adverts need to woo their market that buys the car and thats women. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIEOilFR2Qg WOW.....looking at the photos I now realize the importance of nice looking wheels...eeeeek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 (edited) From what I have heard or gleaned from the info is the American Fiesta will have 1.6L gasoline I4 and pull 39mpg highway in optimum form and probably 28-30mpg in city driving. The engine will have about 115hp and I'm guessing 9.5 sec. in 0-60 time. I would hope price target will be $13,999.00 in stripped form with most selling in $16,000-18,000 range. That gives Focus ability to upscale some more to $18,000-$23,000 range. After all, in these new times Ford will have to make profit selling high volume small cars. European based Fusion will move further upscale and Taurus will be quasi-luxury car....poor man's Lincoln. Where else can Ford go and make money? sounds PERFECT! diesel smeeezil! Edited August 25, 2008 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 The Fiesta is a car for the female buyer l wish Ford marketing men would drop the stupid dogbot adverts as most women are not interested in the mechanical side of a car and what it offers, most would be more interested a biggest possible vanity mirror under that Ford can get under the sun visor so they can check their hair and that they have no big bogies up their nose on display. You can see the Fiesta dogbot advert was made a men and not a woman, new Fiesta adverts need to woo their market that buys the car and thats women.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIEOilFR2Qg Nice opinion of women, you got there. :rolleyes: ***Disclaimer*** Yes there are vain, superficial women out there. However, with the rise of the metrosexual male, there are almost as many vain, superficial men............ and their numbers are growing faster. That said, you once again prove your inability to think about vehicles in the perspective of the US market. Check a globe, we are this semi-large country on the other side of that big ol ocean. We have not embraced small car diesels. Will we someday............. probably. Should Ford waste money on probablies right now........... probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Nice opinion of women, you got there. :rolleyes: ***Disclaimer*** Yes there are vain, superficial women out there. However, with the rise of the metrosexual male, there are almost as many vain, superficial men............ and their numbers are growing faster. That said, you once again prove your inability to think about vehicles in the perspective of the US market. Check a globe, we are this semi-large country on the other side of that big ol ocean. We have not embraced small car diesels. Will we someday............. probably. Should Ford waste money on probablies right now........... probably not. not sure about the acceptance of diesel in light of its additional cost, now make it the same as gas ( as i beleive it IS in Europe ) and the picture changes...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 (edited) sounds PERFECT! diesel smeeezil! LOL your dead right Deanh, Fiesta press release car so Ford find the most stupid silly wheel covers no doubt made from best quality best quality plastic 1/10 could do better, lets just hope they have not already made a million of these wheel covers already for the production cars. Edited August 25, 2008 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 LOL your dead right Deanh, Fiesta press release car so Ford find the most stupid silly wheel covers no doubt made from best quality best quality plastic 1/10 could do better, lets just hope they have not already made a million of these wheel covers already for the production cars. questionable to say the least...hang THAt decision maker...boy do those caps cheapen a REALLY attractive design....they dont even deserve to be thrown to my Aussie Sheppard.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 That's our point. Your original statement is idiotic. What is "idiotic" about stating that there are diesels made that meet current US Regs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Would Ford lose money on every single one of those additional 38% of diesel Fiesta sales in the US? DEFINITELY yes. There's no maybe. No probably. DEFINITELY. Shooting from the hip again? Or do you have proof to back up your statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 The idiotic part, which you seem to be INTENTIONALLY MISSING is that no one in the US market, at present, or has planned for the next calendar year, a 50 state legal diesel powered car that will be in the B size class (where the Fiesta will surely be) and for an MSRP that is $17,998 or less. Since this is the target market for the Fiesta, it is idiotic to try to lambast Ford for not having a car to sell to that market that they will definitely lose money on every unit produced. Face it, with the technology available TODAY (or for the next year or so) it is economically impossible to sell a vehicle that cheaply that is powered by a diesel engine that meets 50 state emissions guidelines, likely even with a urea injection system. This discussion is about B cars for under $18000. It doesn't include VWs in the mid to upper $25Ks, or other luxury imports in the $30K plus range. Comparing the Fiesta to any of those other vehicles is beyond the scope of the discussion and is, as a result, intentionally being antagonistic, trying to divert the discussion, or, at its worse, attempting to bait negative personal attacks. It would be forgiveable if you were pattently unintelligent, but, by the evident fact that you can successfully sign into the internet, get on the discussion board, and spell correctly and use correct grammer most of the time, you have shown that you aren't a complete moron. So, the only logical conclusion is that you are being intentionally hostile and obstinately negative by constantly berating Ford by holding them to a MUCH higher standard that to which you apparently hold their competition. The above is my case for having you banned from this board. You have repeatedly shown yourself to be completely disrespectful of the opinions of others. You through adversarial opinions out there and call anyone that dares to dispute them on any grounds mindless cheerleaders when it is you that is the mindless critic and many of the rest of us the realists that attempt to show you where your opinions don't have merit with respect ot the discussion at hand. This is supposed to be a place for intelligent discourse, yet, I'm still waiting for anything from you that comes close to resembling that. And, yes, I very likely misspelled something in this message. I don't have the time or even the motivitation at the moment to go back and proofread what I wrote, especially for the likes of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Shooting from the hip again? Or do you have proof to back up your statement? and while you are at it NICK...please list the plethora of comparable size vehicles avail statesid that have diesel drivetrains...man nick, sometimes...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenCaylor Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Seriously. Am I the only one here who remembers driving cars built between 1978 and 1988? A 12-second 0-60 time was a dream come true for some of those heaps. Yet I don't recall ever having merging problems on highway ramps. I had an 83 Escort GT with the 1.6L EFI I4 (88 hp) with a 5-speed manual, the quickest Escort you could buy. I remember it was tested with a 0-60 time of 11.3 seconds. I remember anything with a 0-60 time of less than 10 seconds was considered quick. I also live in Los Angeles. The Pasadena Freeway has no onramps, just a stop sign and you're on the freeway. Now THAT was scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 The idiotic part, which you seem to be INTENTIONALLY MISSING is that no one in the US market, at present, or has planned for the next calendar year, a 50 state legal diesel powered car that will be in the B size class (where the Fiesta will surely be) and for an MSRP that is $17,998 or less. Since this is the target market for the Fiesta, it is idiotic to try to lambast Ford for not having a car to sell to that market that they will definitely lose money on every unit produced. Face it, with the technology available TODAY (or for the next year or so) it is economically impossible to sell a vehicle that cheaply that is powered by a diesel engine that meets 50 state emissions guidelines, likely even with a urea injection system. This discussion is about B cars for under $18000. It doesn't include VWs in the mid to upper $25Ks, or other luxury imports in the $30K plus range. Comparing the Fiesta to any of those other vehicles is beyond the scope of the discussion and is, as a result, intentionally being antagonistic, trying to divert the discussion, or, at its worse, attempting to bait negative personal attacks. It would be forgiveable if you were pattently unintelligent, but, by the evident fact that you can successfully sign into the internet, get on the discussion board, and spell correctly and use correct grammer most of the time, you have shown that you aren't a complete moron. So, the only logical conclusion is that you are being intentionally hostile and obstinately negative by constantly berating Ford by holding them to a MUCH higher standard that to which you apparently hold their competition. The above is my case for having you banned from this board. You have repeatedly shown yourself to be completely disrespectful of the opinions of others. You through adversarial opinions out there and call anyone that dares to dispute them on any grounds mindless cheerleaders when it is you that is the mindless critic and many of the rest of us the realists that attempt to show you where your opinions don't have merit with respect ot the discussion at hand. This is supposed to be a place for intelligent discourse, yet, I'm still waiting for anything from you that comes close to resembling that. And, yes, I very likely misspelled something in this message. I don't have the time or even the motivitation at the moment to go back and proofread what I wrote, especially for the likes of you. EXCELLENT !!!! I am not worthy !!!! :drool: Those are exactly my thoughts also. I quoted your post in its entirety............... as it should be required reading. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Thanks, old_fairmont_wagon — that needed saying. Great nailage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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