Driven: Fords New Fiesta

[FordBuyer]

What we are forgetting here is that Europeans will pay top dollar for small car like Focus and thus Ford offers top of the line materials and engine choices. Historically anyway, Americans aren't willing as of yet to pay $25,000-32,000 for vehicle the size of Focus or Fiesta. So look for European based Focus, Fiesta, and future Fusion to be offered here with cheaper materials and engine choices than offered in Europe, and don't be disappointed. I doubt if many Americans as of yet are willing to pay $30,000 for any Focus. I know I'm not. Maybe that day will come in decade or so, but I doubt it right now. Americans are used to purchasing Focus for $15,000 or so after rebates and inentives.

[Deanh]

Thanks, old_fairmont_wagon — that needed saying. Great nailage.

how did you know about the pedicure?

[Deanh]

What we are forgetting here is that Europeans will pay top dollar for small car like Focus and thus Ford offers top of the line materials and engine choices. Historically anyway, Americans aren't willing as of yet to pay $25,000-32,000 for vehicle the size of Focus or Fiesta. So look for European based Focus, Fiesta, and future Fusion to be offered here with cheaper materials and engine choices than offered in Europe, and don't be disappointed. I doubt if many Americans as of yet are willing to pay $30,000 for any Focus. I know I'm not. Maybe that day will come in decade or so, but I doubt it right now. Americans are used to purchasing Focus for $15,000 or so after rebates and inentives.

make a superior product with desirable styling and they may become educated as such...witness the Minis popularity...it knocks on the door of 30k no problem....starts at 18 ish though...

[Ford Jellymoulds]

What we are forgetting here is that Europeans will pay top dollar for small car like Focus and thus Ford offers top of the line materials and engine choices. Historically anyway, Americans aren't willing as of yet to pay $25,000-32,000 for vehicle the size of Focus or Fiesta. So look for European based Focus, Fiesta, and future Fusion to be offered here with cheaper materials and engine choices than offered in Europe, and don't be disappointed. I doubt if many Americans as of yet are willing to pay $30,000 for any Focus. I know I'm not. Maybe that day will come in decade or so, but I doubt it right now. Americans are used to purchasing Focus for $15,000 or so after rebates and inentives.

 

Focus ST does not come in the $25,000-32,000 more like $39,302 the new RST 2WD Fake RS car will cost more.

http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-summar...&Submit1=GO

[P71_CrownVic]

The idiotic part....blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.................................. :boring:

 

I never called anybody names...I simply stated that there are manufactures that can produce a diesel engine that meets current US Regs. I am not sure where I lost you...but, based on the above post, I did somewhere.

[P71_CrownVic]

Thanks, old_fairmont_wagon — that needed saying. Great nailage.

 

Ooooh yeah...he sure got me.........

[Edstock]

Ooooh yeah...he sure got me.........

The fact that you posted is proof.

 

This is about the Fiesta. Diesels are not part of the B-car world in North America. You want to talk about other manufacturers' diesels, start a new thread.

[P71_CrownVic]

The fact that you posted is proof.

 

Yeah.......sure.......whatever you believe.

[RichardJensen]

Yeah.......sure.......whatever you believe.

This is the kind of crap that got you suspended before.

 

I see anymore of this and you'll get yourself another 2 week suspension.

[P71_CrownVic]

This is the kind of crap that got you suspended before.

 

I see anymore of this and you'll get yourself another 2 week suspension.

 

I don't understand...

 

I am agreeing with him and dropping the issue...wouldn't that be something you would prefer over 10 additional pages of insults back and fourth?

 

Am I to understand that you want the ten pages back and fourth...over just dropping the issue? That is what I am taking from your above post.

Edited August 26, 2008 by P71_CrownVic

[RichardJensen]

I am agreeing with him

That is patently untrue. You know it, I know it, everyone here knows it. If you don't stop this asinine "I know you are, but what am I?" crap, you will get suspended again.

 

Your conduct here is atrocious.

 

I am going to be 100% straight with you. It takes a unanimous vote to ban someone, and right now you're in the hole 2-1. And I'm the only 'friend' you've got here.

 

You have two choices: Stop being an ass, or continue to be an ass, and get banned or suspended.

[P71_CrownVic]

That is patently untrue. You know it, I know it, everyone here knows it. If you don't stop this asinine "I know you are, but what am I?" crap, you will get suspended again.

 

Your conduct here is atrocious.

 

When...since I have returned, have I typed, "I know you are but what am I"?

 

And, seriously...atrocious? That's stretching it quite a bit. What have I said, since I have returned, this is "atrocious?

[RichardJensen]

That's stretching it quite a bit.

Let me put it this way:

 

I have NEVER seen Old Fairmont Wagon ask for ANYONE to get banned.

 

And, like I said, I'm the only 'friend' you've got here.

[syrtran]

Seriously.

 

Am I the only one here who remembers driving cars built between 1978 and 1988? A 12-second 0-60 time was a dream come true for some of those heaps. Yet I don't recall ever having merging problems on highway ramps.

Hmm, let see, in memory order:

• '82 Mustang LX I-6 - 0-60 in just under 10 seconds,
  
• '81 Reliant ex-cop runabout (it had skid plates!) with the 2.2 - approx 9.5 seconds (yes, it was quicker than the Mustang),
  
• '85 1/2 SVO - no contest,
  
• and the one vehicle that comes closest: an '88 Festiva L with the 4-speed trans. IIRC, magazines said 0-60 took a day and a half. I didn't take it up to 60 often as the engine sounded like it wanted to seize at highway speeds.
  

I guess my experience is a little skewed.

 

 

As to the other off-topic subthread, would you guys mind taking it to PM? It's a little distracting listening to all that bickering while looking at lovely pictures of the Fiesta.

Edited August 26, 2008 by syrtran

[630land]

What is "idiotic" about stating that there are diesels made that meet current US Regs?

 

 

And what is keeping you from answring the damn question? For months it's "Panthers forever and Ford should push people to buy them". Now all the sudden it's "others make lots of diesels" and cant even name one after thre requests. If the Panther had a deisel standard, you and SysEng would stock pile used old Panthers to drive 'forever'.

 

VW has diesels in Jettas and they are somewhat higher than the gasoline versions. Will you dump your precious P71 for one of these since they are now your champion car? Didnt think so.

[630land]

"Speed limit was lover then" IIRC, the 65 limit was put in place in 1987, and danity finally appeared on highways. And, only old farts drove 55 then in Crown Vics and Grand Marqs, clogging left lanes with their sancitmoniousness!

Edited August 26, 2008 by 630land

[Ford Jellymoulds]

The idiotic part, which you seem to be INTENTIONALLY MISSING is that no one in the US market, at present, or has planned for the next calendar year, a 50 state legal diesel powered car that will be in the B size class (where the Fiesta will surely be) and for an MSRP that is $17,998 or less. Since this is the target market for the Fiesta, it is idiotic to try to lambast Ford for not having a car to sell to that market that they will definitely lose money on every unit produced. Face it, with the technology available TODAY (or for the next year or so) it is economically impossible to sell a vehicle that cheaply that is powered by a diesel engine that meets 50 state emissions guidelines, likely even with a urea injection system.

 

This discussion is about B cars for under $18000. It doesn't include VWs in the mid to upper $25Ks, or other luxury imports in the $30K plus range. Comparing the Fiesta to any of those other vehicles is beyond the scope of the discussion and is, as a result, intentionally being antagonistic, trying to divert the discussion, or, at its worse, attempting to bait negative personal attacks. It would be forgiveable if you were pattently unintelligent, but, by the evident fact that you can successfully sign into the internet, get on the discussion board, and spell correctly and use correct grammer most of the time, you have shown that you aren't a complete moron. So, the only logical conclusion is that you are being intentionally hostile and obstinately negative by constantly berating Ford by holding them to a MUCH higher standard that to which you apparently hold their competition.

 

The above is my case for having you banned from this board. You have repeatedly shown yourself to be completely disrespectful of the opinions of others. You through adversarial opinions out there and call anyone that dares to dispute them on any grounds mindless cheerleaders when it is you that is the mindless critic and many of the rest of us the realists that attempt to show you where your opinions don't have merit with respect ot the discussion at hand. This is supposed to be a place for intelligent discourse, yet, I'm still waiting for anything from you that comes close to resembling that.

 

And, yes, I very likely misspelled something in this message. I don't have the time or even the motivitation at the moment to go back and proofread what I wrote, especially for the likes of you.

 

Well based on what you say folk won't buy the gasoline Fiesta Stateside because if compare Fiesta's with the same engine capacity the Fiesta diesel is the cheaper car to buy NEW old man. Outgoing Diesel Fiesta 1.4 $21,653 Gasoline 1.4 $22,025 you can buy x2 Fiesta diesels for the price of a $41,500 pricy Prius if saving the planet is your game, the Focus Econetic diesel Stationwagon also offer a lot more space inside than a shitty Toyota pricy and returns more MPG than the gas guzzling Prius the new Fiesta will offer a much better MPG than the Focus.

 

Diesel v Gasoline Fiesta price (Diesel engine will also last twice a long as the more expensive gasoline engine Fiesta, it has more torque and returns more MPG) when the new Fiesta Econetic comes out the fuel consumption gap will widen even more.

http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-comparison.as...50291&ED3=0

[V8 Ford]

Those diesel fiestas don't have the expensive emissions control systems that they would need to be fitted with in the US. After you add those, any price advantage (and semblance of profitability) disappears. At least that seems to be the case since, as old_fairmont_wagon pointed out, there are no planned B car diesels in the US market by anyone in the near future. If they could, why wouldn’t they?

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Those diesel fiestas don't have the expensive emissions control systems that they would need to be fitted with in the US. After you add those, any price advantage (and semblance of profitability) disappears. At least that seems to be the case since, as old_fairmont_wagon pointed out, there are no planned B car diesels in the US market by anyone in the near future. If they could, why wouldn't they?

 

Your country is rather odd & hypocritical it sells huge pick-ups that belch out 10 fold more NOx pollution than a Fiesta, your hypocritical Californians permit & produce more NOx from LAX Airport than any other airport in the world, hypocritical Californians ports permit diesel powered ships to pump out more NOx pollution than anywhere else in the States, gotta say if l was trying to have NOx free holiday California or Beijing NOx smogs would be the last two places on Gods earth l would want to visit. California does not even have any NOx regulations on bio diesel.

 

Gotta say the Californians are odd you can even buy these stickers for your Hummer from Arnies government.

http://laist.com/2008/02/26/car_pool_lane_solo_drivers.php

 

 

Dirty filthy bastard Californians need to clean their air up before l would l would ever consider a vacation there, if they stopped posing in diesel pick-ups and moved into something smaller like a Econetic Fiesta that pumps out 10 times less Nox than a posers Pick-up, they would start to clean their air up a bit. 10 Fiesta's = 1 Californian pick-up poser, if Californians they cared they would not use aircraft or ships either. But the rest of the world does not give a shit we drive small diesel cars not big filthy diesel US pick-ups.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Ford Jellymoulds

[NickF1011]

What is "idiotic" about stating that there are diesels made that meet current US Regs?

 

That's not the idiotic statement. Go back further.

[RichardJensen]

As to the other off-topic subthread, would you guys mind taking it to PM? It's a little distracting listening to all that bickering while looking at lovely pictures of the Fiesta.

I don't warn people via PM. It's part of keeping moderation on the board transparent.

 

--

 

As to the US being hypocritical vis a vis diesel, well, the EU is being hypocritical about diesel too. It is what it is in both cases. And in both cases, an agenda is being pushed.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

IMHO, from what I've read about the econetic diesels and from what little I know about the US small diesel emissions requirements, if you fit an econetic diesel engine with the requisite gear to meet US emissions, you would loose a non-trivial amount of power output, increase the weight of the whole engine package (the gear isn't exactly without mass ya'know), and reduce the fuel efficiency of the powerplant itself. So, the econetic diesel vehicle in the US will weigh more, be more expensive to produce, achieve less power and use more diesel to do so. All of that reduces the business case for bringing it over and makes it uncompetitive with gasoline powered vehicles in the same class. But, of course, none of this is relevant to the discussion, Ford should just eat the costs and produce a non-competitive vehicle that will be bashed by the press and just take up space on dealer lots just to appease a few people that can't get it through their skulls that, given current technology, there is no business case to produce such a vehicle for sale in the US, especially with the plant situation that Ford finds itself in at the moment.

[chevys]

Seriously.

 

Am I the only one here who remembers driving cars built between 1978 and 1988? A 12-second 0-60 time was a dream come true for some of those heaps. Yet I don't recall ever having merging problems on highway ramps.

 

Nope. I had an 80 cutlass with a 260cid V8 that would go to 60 in about 14 seconds I think and through the quarter in slightly over 20 seconds. It had 105 hp I think and was by far the weakest car I have driven to date and the damn thing had a v8 in it!!

 

Back in those days anything that went 10 seconds or under was considered pretty darn fast.

[Deanh]

Well based on what you say folk won't buy the gasoline Fiesta Stateside because if compare Fiesta's with the same engine capacity the Fiesta diesel is the cheaper car to buy NEW old man. Outgoing Diesel Fiesta 1.4 $21,653 Gasoline 1.4 $22,025 you can buy x2 Fiesta diesels for the price of a $41,500 pricy Prius if saving the planet is your game, the Focus Econetic diesel Stationwagon also offer a lot more space inside than a shitty Toyota pricy and returns more MPG than the gas guzzling Prius the new Fiesta will offer a much better MPG than the Focus.

 

Diesel v Gasoline Fiesta price (Diesel engine will also last twice a long as the more expensive gasoline engine Fiesta, it has more torque and returns more MPG) when the new Fiesta Econetic comes out the fuel consumption gap will widen even more.

http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-comparison.as...50291&ED3=0

Prius mid 20's here...plus 6k markup

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Prius mid 20's here...plus 6k markup

 

Thanks for that Deanh, l can see why Toyota sales are plunging bigtime in Europe at the moment they are ripping us off, you dont see all that many Toyotas or Pricey's on our roads you must have noticed that when you had your trip to Ireland l bet you never noticed a single Camry?