TStag Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Assuming for a moment that GM and Ford had to get the begging bowls out then has anyone considered what form a bailout may take? The most popular answer to this seems to be more low cost loans. But with GM and Fords cash burn and all their pre-existing debt this may not be appitising to a US administration. Indeed the debts run up by both companies are so high that some may argue that both companies are not really able to sustain yet more debt. So are we really saying that any loans will really be subsidies? Surely that's a hard sell for a US government? But there is a third possibility in this. What if a foreign car maker offered to buy one of the companies providing the government took on some debt? This may mean that the likes of the Ford family lose all their shares as a result. But I'm guessing that this would be the easiest sell of all for the next Government of the USA..... After all it would simply be the motoring equivalent of Bear Sterns, would it not? F150 by Toyota anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 But I'm guessing that this would be the easiest sell of all for the next Government of the USA..... After all it would simply be the motoring equivalent of Bear Sterns, would it not? F150 by Toyota anyone? Now, that is so funny! You are a master of the absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 What form will the bailout take? Most likely, if the legislation is drafted independent of the bank bailout it will be in the form of low interest loans. If done under the auspices of the bank bailout it will likely take the form of the government buying bonds from the car companies. --- I would imagine a minimum 10 year term on any loan or note. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Gotta say l take anything T-Stag says with a pinch of salt. What's happened to the Tata & MG's bid for world global domination T-Stag you mentioned? British car sales October 2008 TATA Jan-October - 0 (None Zero Zilch) MG Jan-Oct - 1 Land Rover October sales down - 57.92% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Any bailout of the auto companies will come with stipulations on production of fuel efficient cars. By fuel efficient, I mean at or near 50 mpg. Anyone who considers 30mpg fuel efficient has never driven in Europe. After all why bail out companies and allow them to do the same thing they have done done for over 30 years when we had the last gas crisis. Secondly, not helping the auto industries would be a major disaster that would have linkage up and down the economy. Paulson just gave $150 billion to AIG, tax free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Any bailout of the auto companies will come with stipulations on production of fuel efficient cars. By fuel efficient, I mean at or near 50 mpg. Anyone who considers 30mpg fuel efficient has never driven in Europe. After all why bail out companies and allow them to do the same thing they have done done for over 30 years when we had the last gas crisis. Secondly, not helping the auto industries would be a major disaster that would have linkage up and down the economy. Paulson just gave $150 billion to AIG, tax free. Glad to hear you know what the government's meaning of "fuel efficient" is. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Any bailout of the auto companies will come with stipulations on production of fuel efficient cars. By fuel efficient, I mean at or near 50 mpg. Anyone who considers 30mpg fuel efficient has never driven in Europe. After all why bail out companies and allow them to do the same thing they have done done for over 30 years when we had the last gas crisis. Secondly, not helping the auto industries would be a major disaster that would have linkage up and down the economy. Paulson just gave $150 billion to AIG, tax free. Well there is Bush's definition and then there is Obama's. Which do you think is closer to 50 mpg? Why rush, GM shares just got forecast to $0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Well there is Bush's definition and then there is Obama's. Which do you think is closer to 50 mpg? Neither Bush nor Obama understand the industry enough to propose 50 mpg vehicles in exchange for a government loan. Apparently you don't either. 50 mpg is a pipe dream for all but the tiniest of cars, a market for which is really non-existent in the United States. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 mlhm5 is correct.anaylist are pridicting 0$ a share for GM...who would want a gubment owned car anyhow..it would be like russian junk today and of yore...there cooked at detroit north..ill never buy anything that the gubment owns..its always a POS when they get involved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Neither Bush nor Obama understand the industry enough to propose 50 mpg vehicles in exchange for a government loan. Apparently you don't either. 50 mpg is a pipe dream for all but the tiniest of cars, a market for which is really non-existent in the United States. Did you ever consider that sacrifices have to be made to reduce paying countries we don't like $700 billion a year? People in Europe don't drive pick up trucks and SUVs as commuter vehicles. BTW, the Prius is not a tiny car unless your current vehicle is an Expedition and it gets 45 mpg. There is no competition for the Prius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Did you ever consider that sacrifices have to be made to reduce paying countries we don't like $700 billion a year? People in Europe don't drive pick up trucks and SUVs as commuter vehicles. BTW, the Prius is not a tiny car unless your current vehicle is an Expedition and it gets 45 mpg. There is no competition for the Prius. So, the Prius is the best of the best, and it gets 45 mpg. So an average vehicle is going to have to reach 50 mpg (11% better than the Prius) to qualify for the loans? Wow...hey, I've got some ocean front property here in MO if you are interested! Fuel efficient? Yes. 50 mpg? Not for a long long time for the average car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Did you ever consider that sacrifices have to be made to reduce paying countries we don't like $700 billion a year? People in Europe don't drive pick up trucks and SUVs as commuter vehicles. BTW, the Prius is not a tiny car unless your current vehicle is an Expedition and it gets 45 mpg. There is no competition for the Prius. and thats what we will soon have when the big 3 get there bailout..along with state owned company...trabant anyone...yep im done buying anything from detroit north...detroit south is where it is at now and in the future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxman100 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 (edited) Ironically, in the future one might be forced to buy a foreign car if you want to drive anything larger than an "Obama Special". Money never comes without strings attached - it's the golden rule. Those who have the gold, make the rules. Edited November 10, 2008 by taxman100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Did you ever consider that sacrifices have to be made to reduce paying countries we don't like $700 billion a year? People in Europe don't drive pick up trucks and SUVs as commuter vehicles. BTW, the Prius is not a tiny car unless your current vehicle is an Expedition and it gets 45 mpg. There is no competition for the Prius. and thats what we will soon have when the big 3 get there bailout..along with state owned company...trabant anyone...yep im done buying anything from detroit north...detroit south is where it is at now and in the future ps: what i would like to see is ford building a micro plant in the south with non union wages and then comparing quality and such to detroit north..i bet it would be able to compete...future looks like micro auto plants building stuff people actually want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 So, the Prius is the best of the best, and it gets 45 mpg. So an average vehicle is going to have to reach 50 mpg (11% better than the Prius) to qualify for the loans? Wow...hey, I've got some ocean front property here in MO if you are interested! Fuel efficient? Yes. 50 mpg? Not for a long long time for the average car. Exactly. Mlhm5, sit on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 mlhm5 is correct.anaylist are pridicting 0$ a share for GM...who would want a gubment owned car anyhow..it would be like russian junk today and of yore...there cooked at detroit north..ill never buy anything that the gubment owns..its always a POS when they get involved Its worse than I thought for GM. This is terrible. I dont understand it all and dont pretend to but man this just sucks. I read your posts snooter at z28 camaro forum and F bod father over there seems to think everything is not as bad as it seems but it is. The camaro will go on for sure but jeez. Some of those people have their head in the sand. I would post but I was banned. I hate to see this all happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Its worse than I thought for GM. This is terrible. I dont understand it all and dont pretend to but man this just sucks. I read your posts snooter at z28 camaro forum and F bod father over there seems to think everything is not as bad as it seems but it is. The camaro will go on for sure but jeez. Some of those people have their head in the sand. I would post but I was banned. I hate to see this all happen. i like the camaro and i want the challenger and camaro along with the mustang to be very very successful...but with those dismal nubers staring you in the face its just hard not to rationalize somebody is going to be gone...never in a gillon years would i have thought GM would beat chrysler out the gate....the "mark of excellence" my ass....what a farce... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 .never in a gillon years would i have thought GM would beat chrysler out the gate....the "mark of excellence" my ass....what a farce... I know what you mean and feel the same way. Corvettes are going dirt cheap right now new and used. The market is just crumbling before our eyes it seems. And then you have the idiots that will pay sticker or even more for a new Camaro? WTF are they thinking?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Exactly. Mlhm5, sit on it. It really does not make any difference, because Ford is going to do what it wants to do and it won't help one bit. The problem is demand. The consumer is not spending. Not for cars, not for gas, not for Christmas, not for anything because they are scared and are afraid their job will be cut next. Take a look at the recent unemployment numbers. That trend is just starting and it will get worse next year and so will consumer spending. When someone buys anything new in 2010, they won't be interested in buying expensive razor blades (gas). I would not give anyone in Detroit a dime unless they agreed to put a Prius competitor in the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 (edited) It really does not make any difference, because Ford is going to do what it wants to do and it won't help one bit. The problem is demand. The consumer is not spending. Not for cars, not for gas, not for Christmas, not for anything because they are scared and are afraid their job will be cut next. Take a look at the recent unemployment numbers. That trend is just starting and it will get worse next year and so will consumer spending. When someone buys anything new in 2010, they won't be interested in buying expensive razor blades (gas). I would not give anyone in Detroit a dime unless they agreed to put a Prius competitor in the market. I'm glad we have you around to tell us how things are going to be in 2010. So, while you're telling fortunes, who's going to win the Super Bowl? Oh wait, I probably shouldn't mention football. We all know how well your Tom Brady prediction panned out. Edited November 10, 2008 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Did you ever consider that sacrifices have to be made to reduce paying countries we don't like $700 billion a year? People in Europe don't drive pick up trucks and SUVs as commuter vehicles. BTW, the Prius is not a tiny car unless your current vehicle is an Expedition and it gets 45 mpg. There is no competition for the Prius. what about your beloved TDI bi-polar boy?..........sheesh! And the upcoming Fusion hybrid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 (edited) I would imagine loan guarantees. That said, I would not expect Ford to sign on, until they had to. They are already saying that they just want to know that it is available, should they need it. They would not take on more debt, unless it was a last resort. That said, ml really needs to go to GMI. The doom and gloom, over there, is thick.............. and growing every day. He would fit in well. Edited November 10, 2008 by Extreme4x4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 That said, ml really needs to go to GMI. The doom and gloom, over there, is thick.............. and growing every day. He would fit in well. He wouldn't like it over there. The moderators aren't as forgiving as we are. He'd probably be banned within a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford-150 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 it would take the shape of a circle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 (edited) it would take the shape of a circle In Ford's case, a squircle..... ...or an oval. :P Edited November 10, 2008 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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