Ford Expects Profit, Electric Car By 2011

[NickF1011]

I cannot wait till preconceived import bias becomes a thing of the past...Ford should re-edumacate people via ad campaigns....for once MENTION the competitors downfalls....death to polite advertising...THIS IS WAR!

 

Well, hopefully when the time comes to replace the Mazda6, I'll get behind the wheel of a new AWD Lincoln MKZ Sport. I'll be a Ford-quality-improvement advertisement-on-wheels. I'm really liking the looks of that car. Can't wait to go drive one!!! :happy feet:

[goingincirclez]

It's not like people were lining up to buy the Taurus X or Freestyle before the Flex came out anyway. I don't look at the Flex so much as a "premium aspirational" vehicle as I look at it as "the vehicle the Freestyle should have been in the first place".

 

That's about it in a nutshell. They flubbed the Freestyle launch so many ways we need not rehash, by the time they finally fix it it's too late.

 

Their hands may have been tied in some respects, but the overall handling of it was stupid. And the timing, while beyond their control (aside from not getting it right in the first place) could not have been worse.

 

And I'm not dismissing it solely as a "premium aspirational" vehicle. But, that is essentially the rallying cry that was bandied about around here when it debuted. IIRC, admittedly. I mean, there WAS a justification for dropping the TX in favor of Flex, right? And it's not because the Flex had more room, power, or "passenger seating" function...

 

It's time Ford stopped offering bargain basement vehicles. As much as they look nice on sales charts ("Yay! We sold 20,000 Focuses at a loss on every single one!"), it's time for Ford to focus on transaction price per vehicle. To that end, I'm sure the Flex is already exceeding the Taurus X by a large margin.

 

If you hate the "premium aspirational" feeling the Flex conveys, you'll probably hate every new Ford vehicle coming out, as they are all expected to raise the bar considerably over their predecessors in relation to content and material quality. I don't think it's the wrong way to go at all. Ford needs to change its image, and that's not going to happen as long as they try to sell on nothing but bang-for-the-buck.

 

Agreed. I've never bought a bargain-basement Ford and don't plan to. In fact, all my cars have been as close to fully-loaded as I could get. I've seen the results of the bad ol' Nasser decontenting days, and that IS something that Ford should never, NEVER consider again!

 

 

Now you and Deanh and everyone else, call off the friggin' dogs already! I've often said I like the Flex, multiple times, But I'm not going to say it (or the TX, et al) was perfect. Sheez!

Edited December 3, 2008 by goingincirclez

[NickF1011]

That's about it in a nutshell. They flubbed the Freestyle launch so many ways we need not rehash, by the time they finally fix it it's too late.

 

Their hands may have been tied in some respects, but the overall handling of it was stupid. And the timing, while beyond their control (aside from not getting it right in the first place) could not have been worse.

 

And I'm not dismissing it solely as a "premium aspirational" vehicle. But, that is essentially the rallying cry that was bandied about around here when it debuted. IIRC, admittedly. I mean, there WAS a justification for dropping the TX in favor of Flex, right? And it's not because the Flex had more room, power, or "passenger seating" function...

 

 

 

Agreed. I've never bought a bargain-basement Ford and don't plan to. In fact, all my cars have been as close to fully-loaded as I could get. I've seen the results of the bad ol' Nasser decontenting days, and that IS something that Ford should never, NEVER consider again!

 

 

Now you and Deanh and everyone else, call off the friggin' dogs already! I've often said I like the Flex, multiple times, But I'm not going to say it (or the TX, et al) was perfect. Sheez!

 

The Flex launch could have been done better, at a different time. I agree with you there. But the fact that the Flex is better than the Taurus X is justification enough to get rid of the Taurus X. In comparison, the Taurus X is a downright homely vehicle. It's bland, it's interior is really nothing to write home about. Like Fords before it, it's one saving grace is its price tag. That's no way to sell vehicles.

 

I think we've beaten this to death enough now. :lol:

[Deanh]

That's about it in a nutshell. They flubbed the Freestyle launch so many ways we need not rehash, by the time they finally fix it it's too late.

 

Their hands may have been tied in some respects, but the overall handling of it was stupid. And the timing, while beyond their control (aside from not getting it right in the first place) could not have been worse.

 

And I'm not dismissing it solely as a "premium aspirational" vehicle. But, that is essentially the rallying cry that was bandied about around here when it debuted. IIRC, admittedly. I mean, there WAS a justification for dropping the TX in favor of Flex, right? And it's not because the Flex had more room, power, or "passenger seating" function...

 

 

 

Agreed. I've never bought a bargain-basement Ford and don't plan to. In fact, all my cars have been as close to fully-loaded as I could get. I've seen the results of the bad ol' Nasser decontenting days, and that IS something that Ford should never, NEVER consider again!

 

 

Now you and Deanh and everyone else, call off the friggin' dogs already! I've often said I like the Flex, multiple times, But I'm not going to say it (or the TX, et al) was perfect. Sheez!

no dogs, just an angry Papillon with a spiked collar and a hair lip....personally the tX was a vehicle that answered no question....great car but characterless and basically unwanted, I truly do not think ANY amount of advertisng would have gotten it to where the Flex is NOW, bad buying climate and all....barring the adament bargain hunters of course....I WOULD own a Flex in a heartbeat, and that is my yardstick...can't sell something I have no beleif in.....

[NickF1011]

no dogs, just an angry Papillon with a spiked collar and a hair lip....personally the tX was a vehicle that answered no question....great car but characterless and basically unwanted, I truly do not think ANY amount of advertisng would have gotten it to where the Flex is NOW, bad buying climate and all....barring the adament bargain hunters of course....I WOULD own a Flex in a heartbeat, and that is my yardstick...can't sell something I have no beleif in.....

 

If I actually had a need, I could see myself in a Flex in a heartbeat. I just don't need anything that large. The Freestyle and Taurus X never did a thing for me.

[Deanh]

If I actually had a need, I could see myself in a Flex in a heartbeat. I just don't need anything that large. The Freestyle and Taurus X never did a thing for me.

judging by sales never did anything for anyone else either......my guess due wholey to faceless bland styling....NO middle ground on the Flex...its either a love affair or dry heaving......will be curious what happens if/ when they release a 2.5ish eco.....

Edited December 3, 2008 by Deanh

[630land]

Well, when the new Explorer replaces the TX, then all the suburbanites will go "wow, they get better MPG now" and gobble them up.

[goingincirclez]

judging by sales never did anything for anyone else either......my guess due wholey to faceless bland styling....NO middle ground on the Flex...its either a love affair or dry heaving......will be curious what happens if/ when they release a 2.5ish eco.....

 

I'll go on the record: I waited and waited for the Freestyle to debut - from the 2002 concept (which really looked cool at the time), and when it finally came out for 2005, I was infuriated. I even had a LTE published in Autoextremist at the time, in which I essentially said "And Ford thinks they'll get me to pay $30K+ for a bloated 1992 Escort Wagon?! HA!"

 

I still stand by that sentiment, the styling was a HUGE letdown. It would not have taken much to make it exciting... the concept actually had a fair amount of zing to it that I just can't quantify. Or maybe it just dated that quickly. Who knows.

 

However, when the time came to get something for the family, no other vehicle came close. TX wasn't even out yet. But the Freestyle offered all the functional amenities we needed. So I bit the bullet, and guess what - we love it - it does everything we ask and more, if a little short on lead-foot gratification.

 

It frustrates me that Ford was/is so close yet so far away. 5 years, 3 names, 2 platforms on and on... and still just shy of the sweet spot. (Naming it the Freestyle the same as their POS minivan didn't help and ranks as one of the absolute stupidest things I've ever seen ANY car company do, and probably set them back 2 years). I guess you can't have everything but the Freestyle/TX/Flex is a case of pure aggravation. As much a step forward as the Flex is in style and surface amenities, it's as much one backward in function. I just wish more people weren't so hung up on the former, and Ford had been more successful promoting the latter.

 

 

 

OK. I know, dead horse. But I had to get that out. And now I will go back to my cave.

[Hugh]

judging by sales never did anything for anyone else either......my guess due wholey to faceless bland styling....NO middle ground on the Flex...its either a love affair or dry heaving......will be curious what happens if/ when they release a 2.5ish eco.....

My two cents: The Taurus X is arguably more practical then a Edge (yes there have been cases of potential customers comparing the two) yet between those two, Edge scores more points for relative styling, quality and value. Having seen the Flex in person I can see how you can mistake the look, feel, quality as a (What was the quote?) "Premium Aspirational" when basing against the other cars on the lot. After discussion with local dealers, there appears to be a small growing middle ground for Flex which is you like the two-tone roof or not.

[Deanh]

My two cents: The Taurus X is arguably more practical then a Edge (yes there have been cases of potential customers comparing the two) yet between those two, Edge scores more points for relative styling, quality and value. Having seen the Flex in person I can see how you can mistake the look, feel, quality as a (What was the quote?) "Premium Aspirational" when basing against the other cars on the lot. After discussion with local dealers, there appears to be a small growing middle ground for Flex which is you like the two-tone roof or not.

regardless...one HAS to love, good or bad, a vehicle that draws so many opinions.....FINALLY! next up the fusions ( excellent IMO ) and the Fiesta ( SUPERB! )....god I'm glad I work at a FORD dealership and NOT GM or, whats the other one??????

[NickF1011]

As much a step forward as the Flex is in style and surface amenities, it's as much one backward in function.

 

In what way is the Flex a step backward in function in comparison to the Freestyle or Taurus X?

[Deanh]

In what way is the Flex a step backward in function in comparison to the Freestyle or Taurus X?

I will echo that "Huh?", Flex leapfrogged the X in basically EVERY parameter....

[RichardJensen]

On Ford 'blowing' the Flex launch, here's the question:

 

Would Ford have been better off canning the project in April when it became obvious the market was going to heck?

 

 

Exactly.

[battyr]

I only issue I have with the Flex is that Ford had to make the rocker panels higher to make it more ridged and to allow for a longer wheel base.

 

No one cares, but it does make entry harder for senior citizens.

 

The big fault with the Freestyle is that it was designed to appeal seniors.

 

In reallity, seniors want a young mans car.

[mlhm5]

LOL! You can fool some of the people most of the time and that's usually enough.

[Deanh]

LOL! You can fool some of the people most of the time and that's usually enough.

I took my name off the waiting list for the Acura/ Honda diesel.....

[goingincirclez]

On Ford 'blowing' the Flex launch, here's the question:

 

Would Ford have been better off canning the project in April when it became obvious the market was going to heck?

 

 

Exactly.

I conceded that already, up front. It's not so much an issue of the Flex alone, as it is the two false-starts that put the Flex in that position. They're still paying the price for all the sins of the '05 Freestyle. Had that not happened, the Flex wouldn't seem so ill-timed out of place today. Nothing they could do, it's water under the bridge at this point, but it is stupidity borne out to play.

 

I see "24MPG 7-seat crossover" and think "Wow, you idiots, you had a 27MPG one just two years ago, I drive one. Pray Congress doesn't figure that out."

 

 

 

 

As for the step backwards, OK: in my rush to post during work, I did not realize that Ford's own website spec sheets for the two vehicles (TX and Flex) do not align properly... the interior categories are kind of rearranged whereas I thought I they were the same. So it is NOT AS BAD AS I THOUGHT. I thought the Flex gave up some seating room, but on second look I see it is comparable if not better. It DOES give up some cargo room, which for my family could be an issue at times but is not an insurmountable one. So the Flex interior, while technically smaller, is not as much so to the degree I initially thought. I did try to verify this first, at least give me credit for being open to doing so again - The website specs are not ordered the same. I will call the difference negligible to most.

 

So I guess the Flex is marginally superior, except in fuel economy and a small amount of cargo room. We could argue all day what is more important. But I am glad and it is more competitive in interior room than I initially was led to believe as I have always liked it anyway. The FE is still a disappointment though. So trading in all-important FE for needed style, while maintaining essentially the same amount of room... I'm not sure if that's a clear-cut "win". But maybe I'll call it a "draw" instead of a "step back". B)

[dante hicks]

The "New EPA estimate" for an '05 Freestyle is 25 mpg hwy, not 27.

 

That said, I've yet to find a TX/Freestyle owner who disliked it in any way.

[Deanh]

I conceded that already, up front. It's not so much an issue of the Flex alone, as it is the two false-starts that put the Flex in that position. They're still paying the price for all the sins of the '05 Freestyle. Had that not happened, the Flex wouldn't seem so ill-timed out of place today. Nothing they could do, it's water under the bridge at this point, but it is stupidity borne out to play.

 

I see "24MPG 7-seat crossover" and think "Wow, you idiots, you had a 27MPG one just two years ago, I drive one. Pray Congress doesn't figure that out."

 

 

 

 

As for the step backwards, OK: in my rush to post during work, I did not realize that Ford's own website spec sheets for the two vehicles (TX and Flex) do not align properly... the interior categories are kind of rearranged whereas I thought I they were the same. So it is NOT AS BAD AS I THOUGHT. I thought the Flex gave up some seating room, but on second look I see it is comparable if not better. It DOES give up some cargo room, which for my family could be an issue at times but is not an insurmountable one. So the Flex interior, while technically smaller, is not as much so to the degree I initially thought. I did try to verify this first, at least give me credit for being open to doing so again - The website specs are not ordered the same. I will call the difference negligible to most.

 

So I guess the Flex is marginally superior, except in fuel economy and a small amount of cargo room. We could argue all day what is more important. But I am glad and it is more competitive in interior room than I initially was led to believe as I have always liked it anyway. The FE is still a disappointment though. So trading in all-important FE for needed style, while maintaining essentially the same amount of room... I'm not sure if that's a clear-cut "win". But maybe I'll call it a "draw" instead of a "step back". B)

circle....Freestyle used OLD epa ratings....Flex rated EXACTLY the same as the Taurus X......as for the EPA being dissapointing, perhaps, but putting it into perpective with its competitors it equals or exceeds, and remeber, revamps ( Direct injection, elec steering etc, not to mention the eco-boost engines) are in the pipeline so its future looks good and ratings will only improve....( sure would have been nice to be groundbreaking to begin with, but one has to start somewhere...)

[Deanh]

The "New EPA estimate" for an '05 Freestyle is 25 mpg hwy, not 27.

 

That said, I've yet to find a TX/Freestyle owner who disliked it in any way.

08's 16/24..........

[Hugh]

regardless...one HAS to love, good or bad, a vehicle that draws so many opinions.....FINALLY! next up the fusions ( excellent IMO ) and the Fiesta ( SUPERB! )....god I'm glad I work at a FORD dealership and NOT GM or, whats the other one??????

No argument here. I believe Mr. Farley stated Flex sales were mostly conquest. I could be off but I have to check it.

[Pioneer]

Well, hopefully when the time comes to replace the Mazda6, I'll get behind the wheel of a new AWD Lincoln MKZ Sport. I'll be a Ford-quality-improvement advertisement-on-wheels. I'm really liking the looks of that car. Can't wait to go drive one!!! :happy feet:

 

 

Shame on you. Trading in a domestic vehicle on an import.

[rmc523]

um, the 300 day old "freestyle"/ Taurus X on my frontline states 16/24......no amount of advertising could have helped that vehicle in my book, king of blandsville....like it or not, the Flex turns heads......and garners reactions NOT in tune with a yawn.....

 

I know I've seen quite a few people turn their heads when I drive by in the Flex. :shades:

 

I truly do not think ANY amount of advertisng would have gotten it to where the Flex is NOW, bad buying climate and all....

 

You do bring up a good point....Flex is already selling better than TX did in a worse economy, which could/should bode well for Flex sales when the economy does get better.

 

No argument here. I believe Mr. Farley stated Flex sales were mostly conquest. I could be off but I have to check it.

 

Yes, I do remember reading about that a while back.....I wanna say it was a really high percentage too...

[NickF1011]

Shame on you. Trading in a domestic vehicle on an import.

 

Well, my "domestic" for the past 3 mornings has shot out a cloud of smoke from the tailpipe each time I've started it. Maybe I'll have more luck with an "import" Lincoln instead.