3.5L EB in 2010 Flex

[theoldwizard]

Anyone waiting for a Flex to get 30 mpg highway will have to wait for more than Hell. MI to freeze over !

Edited January 13, 2009 by theoldwizard

[Michael Reynolds]

Don't have to buy at this point. With the economy down, there's going to be a lot less 'I want it so I'll buy it' spending...which means most will be in this boat - if someone wants to argue most, fine, many many many many many.

 

Given that sales climate, not only will prices have to come down, but, features will have to increase to entice through the monetary logjam. High mpg is a feature. So is high HP/TQ.

 

My argument is simply that high mpg is far more valued as a feature nowadays than high HP/TQ, when, the high HP/TQ comes at the expense of high mpg. Granted, some won't care (YEEEEHHHHAAAWWWWWW!!!!), but, most will.

 

Them's the breaks of making bad "Leadership" decisions....

 

Chuck

 

I think a lot of what your getting at above, goes without saying. All of those will be factors in the coming years for every single automotive manufacturer. That said I really don't think you understand the automotive sector that much, nor are you willing to take notice of what every other automobile company has done as of late.

 

Ford Motor, like any company, is driven by profit. Don't expect for prices to hit rock bottom because of driving forces associated with the economy.

 

Bottom line. Re-evaluate your needs and the type of vehicle necessary to fufill those, because no minivan or 3 row crossover will fulfill those. It amuses me how folks have absurd expectations and demands, without taking things into consideration. Until you can logically evaluate that, you get no sympathy.

[Pioneer]

More applications in what? The Flex and the.....

 

Anything that has a V6.

 

Mustang

Fusion

Taurus

Explorer

Ranger

Escape

Edge

Milan

Mariner

Mountaineer

 

Yes, a few of those vehicles will be discontinued in the near future, but even if you put them in the remaining ones, peoples perception of Ford will change. People will look at Ford the way they look at Honda, as a leader in fuel economy.

[NickF1011]

Anything that has a V6.

 

Mustang

Fusion

Taurus

Explorer

Ranger

Escape

Edge

Milan

Mariner

Mountaineer

 

Yes, a few of those vehicles will be discontinued in the near future, but even if you put them in the remaining ones, peoples perception of Ford will change. People will look at Ford the way they look at Honda, as a leader in fuel economy.

 

Of those vehicles, the only ones that I see getting an EcoBoost of any sort before their next redesign are the Mustang, Fusion, and Milan, and Taurus. So even if an I4 EcoBoost was ready today none of those other vehicles would get it today.

 

By the time the next Explorer, Ranger, Escape, Edge, Mariner, or Mountaineer are redesigned, it seems very likely the I4 EcoBoost will be ready.

[chucky2]

You know what...you guys are totally right, Pioneer and I are totally wrong.

 

People don't want high mpg offerings in large vehicles...that's crazy talk.

 

I for one have seen the light: YEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Maybe the next Ford Flex EB commercial can go like this:

 

There's a set sorta far off in the background with trucks racing through mud and explosions and sh1t, and then another set on the other side with a truck going flat out towing a trailer towards the cliff with a big pendulam thingie about to smash it...

 

...and then in the middle of those two sets, can be like a long paved road that just sorta dead ends at a big rocky hill.

 

Flash cut to some dirty construction equipment loading up like 15000 lbs. of busted up concrete blocks in the back of a trailer quickly, with dirty working class guys hurrying around <insert background hurry up yelling>, then, snap cut to a close up of a working mans hand (in a well worn leather glove) locking down the hitch onto the back a Flex EB. Now, the 7 working men at this mythical job site all load into the Flex EB (they miraculously got cleaner), one of the guys in the middle row opens up the refrigerator cooler (close up of that), throws them some icy cold cans labeld 'Cola', and then....now, this is the important part...the music picks up into some trendy guitar thing with bass, and the guy narrating it says something like, "With 350 HP and 350 FOOT POUNDS of TORQUE, the DOUBLE TURBO CHARGED FORD FLEX EGOBOOST IS THERE TO HANDLE THE TOUGHEST JOBS IN STYLE" Flash cut to a cabin shot of these guys YELLING and going YEEEEEHAAAAAWWWWWWWW!!!!, now a computer generated shot of a driveline shot of the AWD system, then a underhood shot of 2 glowing red turbo's...flash cut now to a front oblique shot of the Flex EB smoking all 4 tires...flash cut back to YEEEEEEEHAAAAAWWWWW!!!!!!, and then quick quick shots from different angles of the Flex EB screaming down this paved road, towards the rocky hill, faster and faster, YEEEEEHHHHAAAWWWWWW!!!!, until it actually is like right at the hill? Does it stop? Heck no!!! It goes right through the rocky hill BAAAMMMM!!!! YEEEEHAAAAAWWWWW!!!!!! Plows through the other side where it skids to a stop - flash cut to 4 wheel ABS in operation shot - at a decent (but not pretentous) Sports Bar. The working class guys, now dressed in nice working class going out clothes, but, totally clean, get out laughing and smacking each other on the backs, head on into the bar, where, WOW!!!! There's some hot chicks shooting pool. Of course they just walk right over and meet them....

 

...now, a sorta far away shot of a Dodge and Toyota coming down the road to where the Flex is already parked...

 

..and exit out...Ford logo in the middle centered, flex taking up one side of the picture...Flex 1/3 at the bottom, EgoBoost 2/3 at the bottom, and then off to one side:

 

"Flex with EgoBoost: It's got the power to get the job done, and the refinement to let you do it style"

 

End.

 

Wow.....so powerful....god, I want one.

 

Chuck

[NickF1011]

You know what...you guys are totally right, Pioneer and I are totally wrong.

 

People don't want high mpg offerings in large vehicles...that's crazy talk.

 

I for one have seen the light: YEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Maybe the next Ford Flex EB commercial can go like this:

 

There's a set sorta far off in the background with trucks racing through mud and explosions and sh1t, and then another set on the other side with a truck going flat out towing a trailer towards the cliff with a big pendulam thingie about to smash it...

 

...and then in the middle of those two sets, can be like a long paved road that just sorta dead ends at a big rocky hill.

 

Flash cut to some dirty construction equipment loading up like 15000 lbs. of busted up concrete blocks in the back of a trailer quickly, with dirty working class guys hurrying around <insert background hurry up yelling>, then, snap cut to a close up of a working mans hand (in a well worn leather glove) locking down the hitch onto the back a Flex EB. Now, the 7 working men at this mythical job site all load into the Flex EB (they miraculously got cleaner), one of the guys in the middle row opens up the refrigerator cooler (close up of that), throws them some icy cold cans labeld 'Cola', and then....now, this is the important part...the music picks up into some trendy guitar thing with bass, and the guy narrating it says something like, "With 350 HP and 350 FOOT POUNDS of TORQUE, the DOUBLE TURBO CHARGED FORD FLEX EGOBOOST IS THERE TO HANDLE THE TOUGHEST JOBS IN STYLE" Flash cut to a cabin shot of these guys YELLING and going YEEEEEHAAAAAWWWWWWWW!!!!, now a computer generated shot of a driveline shot of the AWD system, then a underhood shot of 2 glowing red turbo's...flash cut now to a front oblique shot of the Flex EB smoking all 4 tires...flash cut back to YEEEEEEEHAAAAAWWWWW!!!!!!, and then quick quick shots from different angles of the Flex EB screaming down this paved road, towards the rocky hill, faster and faster, YEEEEEHHHHAAAWWWWWW!!!!, until it actually is like right at the hill? Does it stop? Heck no!!! It goes right through the rocky hill BAAAMMMM!!!! YEEEEHAAAAAWWWWW!!!!!! Plows through the other side where it skids to a stop - flash cut to 4 wheel ABS in operation shot - at a decent (but not pretentous) Sports Bar. The working class guys, now dressed in nice working class going out clothes, but, totally clean, get out laughing and smacking each other on the backs, head on into the bar, where, WOW!!!! There's some hot chicks shooting pool. Of course they just walk right over and meet them....

 

...now, a sorta far away shot of a Dodge and Toyota coming down the road to where the Flex is already parked...

 

..and exit out...Ford logo in the middle centered, flex taking up one side of the picture...Flex 1/3 at the bottom, EgoBoost 2/3 at the bottom, and then off to one side:

 

"Flex with EgoBoost: It's got the power to get the job done, and the refinement to let you do it style"

 

End.

 

Wow.....so powerful....god, I want one.

 

Chuck

 

Did anyone ever tell you that you are crazy? If not, let me be first. You are crazy.

 

Flex: Already most fuel efficient 7-passenger CUV on the market. Most fuel efficient isn't good enough? I guess the most beautiful woman on the planet isn't beautiful enough for you either?

[chucky2]

Did anyone ever tell you that you are crazy? If not, let me be first. You are crazy.

 

Flex: Already most fuel efficient 7-passenger CUV on the market. Most fuel efficient isn't good enough? I guess the most beautiful woman on the planet isn't beautiful enough for you either?

 

The most beautiful woman on the planet would absolutely be enough for me. Then telling me she's got incurable sypth. (22 mpg highway) would mean I'd have something I'd love to have, paying for, but just don't want to deal with the pain.

 

<insert whatever great thing> and then <insert absolute deal breaker>. Result?

 

Deal breaker.

 

Chuck

 

P.S. YEEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NickF1011]

The most beautiful woman on the planet would absolutely be enough for me. Then telling me she's got incurable sypth. (22 mpg highway) would mean I'd have something I'd love to have, paying for, but just don't want to deal with the pain.

 

<insert whatever great thing> and then <insert absolute deal breaker>. Result?

 

Deal breaker.

 

Chuck

 

P.S. YEEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

So don't buy one.

 

At least Ford can rest easy knowing you won't be buying a fullsize crossover from anybody else either.

[chiefstang]

Here's your fundemental problem: You blindly accept whatever Ford does. Period.

And you complain all day on a Ford forum about a vehicle that is obviously outside of your means in hopes that someone will see you as some sort of epiphany and change everything to your standards. Brilliant. I'm sure Ford hadn't thought about gas mileage before you started spewing pure genius.

 

Wait, they sorta already did that with their SUV's and Truck's this past time....how'd that work for their sales again?

 

I keep hearing that Ford was "guilty" of buying vehicles that people didn't want, and correct me if I'm wrong, but that's not the case. Ford was selling Explorers and full sized trucks for decades because people wanted them. There was an SUV in every driveway. There was a sudden shift in the economy and gas prices that left Ford in the cold. A shift that they were not responsible for. Now, in just a few short years, they've revamped their whole lineup to reflect what people want, and still you say they don't. I don't know where you lived the past 20 years, but Ford built exactly what people wanted. Now people want something else, and they will build that too.

 

 

Any news from the auto show about Ford improving the mileage of the Expedition/Navigator?

 

I'd really like a Expedition, but not at the mileage they're currently getting. I know I'm not alone.

 

The Expedition's mileage rating is best in class. 3 MPG better than the Toyota. You can't expect a 1/2 ton truck that tows 9000 lbs to get great mileage. That being said, nobody builds a half ton SUV that does better than the Ford. Period.

 

 

 

Now, back to reality...

 

Chief

Edited January 13, 2009 by chiefstang

[rmc523]

You know what...you guys are totally right, Pioneer and I are totally wrong.

 

People don't want high mpg offerings in large vehicles...that's crazy talk.

 

Nobody here, to my knowledge, ever said that people don't want high mpg offerings in a Flex type vehicle. In fact, I agree with you, that there needs to be a more efficient option available.

 

That said, think about it.....the 3.5 (regular) came out when, in '07 for the Edge & friends? Ok, so that's 2 years between when the regular motor came out until EB was debuted in it. Now in that time, at least to our knowledge, the entire project was conceived and/or announced and completed. Fast forward to now.....the new 2.5 just came out this past year for '09 models (Escape, etc). I'm sure they've been working on it already, but now they have to create/produce/finish the 2.5 EB I4. The engine is coming (likely next year), it's just not here yet, and seeing as how the engine just came out, I'd give them a break.

 

As I stated above, I feel as though the Edge/MKX refreshes or the new Explorer may end up being the debut vehicles for the 2.5 EB engine, which are both slated for 2010 MY, AFAIK, which again is next year (not even, likely before that). After those are released, you can be sure that it'll be announced that the 2.5 EB will be spread throughout the lineup.

[Deanh]

So don't buy one.

 

At least Ford can rest easy knowing you won't be buying a fullsize crossover from anybody else either.

newsflash#2, Chuckys thought are obviously being taken seriously, Ford announces a 4 cylinder King of the Road.......

[Extreme4x4]

You want to use that "perspective" thing again............ here goes.

 

My 2003 AWD Mazda Tribute (same as Escape), was rated at 18/23. Do understand, that this same basic vehicle, in 2008 was rated at 17/22.

 

This was a 5 person, 3450lb, 200hp, AWD vehicle.

 

Do you not thing that I would have paid BIG money for it to have 155 more horsepower, and still get the same economy???

 

BTW, people do buy Escapes for economy. They "assume" that it gets great economy, because it is a small vehicle. People who look at large vehicles, "assume" that they do not get as good of economy as small vehicles. They know nothing about weight, and nothing about features................ they just see this very large vehicle, and think lower fuel economy. It is common sense.

 

Now, take these same people, looking at this large vehicle............... and seeing that it gets 22mpg with AWD, which is what they want anyway. Then, they go to the one next to it, and see that it has a turbocharged _________, that gets the same mileage. This person is going to be happy. Even people who do not know much about engines, associate turbocharged with more power. They don't know how much more power, and frankly, it really means little to most. However, if they drive it, and get a smile on their face when they hit the gas................ and then remember that it gets the same mileage as the one that really didn't put a smile on their face, when they drove it.................. well, they just might buy it.

 

See, you are not looking at reality, you are looking at your reality. The reality is, that Ford has gotten negative press for years, for not having powerful enough engines in their vehicles. They have also gotten negative press, in recent years, for not having good enough fuel economy. This engine will make the power people, and some of the FE people happy............... and when an I4 Ecoboost is available, it will make more of the FE people happy.

 

I can want my 7500lb V10 3/4 ton 4x4 Crewcab to get 25mpg all I want. It doesn't mean it is going to happen any time in the future. So, I have a 7500lb V10 3/4 ton CrewCab that gets 11/14................ but I still have it.

 

What this means is, you wishing it, does not make it happen. It will happen when it does. In the meantime, you can sit and bitch about it................ or you can buy the vehicle that you want, live with the FE, and shut up. It is obvious what you have chosen.

[NickF1011]

This thread is like a fractal. No matter how much more we try to expand upon it we're still looking at the exact same thing over and over and over again.

 

Edited January 13, 2009 by NickF1011

[Deanh]

This thread is like a fractal. No matter how much more we try to expand upon it we're still looking at the exact same thing over and over and over again.

 

Mhlm, is that you?

[chiefstang]

This thread is like a fractal. No matter how much more we try to expand upon it we're still looking at the exact same thing over and over and over again.

 

 

 

Ooooh! Pretty....

 

Aren't most threads here about the same, though?

 

At work we call a situation like this "an evil merry go round". It's lots of fun 'till you get dizzy and puke.

 

Game on!

[stephenhawkings]

This thread is like a fractal. No matter how much more we try to expand upon it we're still looking at the exact same thing over and over and over again.

 

ooh pretty pictures...

[DUCKRACER]

Let's look back on when the EcoBoost program was first started.

 

Gas was still cheap.

 

Ford had little focus on cars.

 

People were demanding power.

 

Which avenue does Ford explore: A twin turbo V6 or a fuel-sipper Turbo 4?

 

 

Let's face it: If Ford launched the I-4 EcoBoost first, people would be here bitching about all of the powertrain options in Ford's cheap cars while vehicles like the MKS were stuck being saddled with nothing but an underpowered 3.7 liter N/A V6.

 

It's a no-win situation with some people.

 

And this isn't cheerleading, it's simply owning up to the reality of things: Ford can't do everything at once.

 

Isn't there a possibility that the weight of the flex would keep the I4 working so hard that the MPG might not be much better than the NA 3.5???

[NickF1011]

Isn't there a possibility that the weight of the flex would keep the I4 working so hard that the MPG might not be much better than the NA 3.5???

 

It's a possibility, but I think the 2.5 EB might be up to the task. If we see it showing up in other vehicles and not the Flex, I think we'll have our answer. Personally? I don't see it showing up in anything larger than the Edge.

[theoldwizard]

It's a possibility, but I think the 2.5 EB might be up to the task...

Ah yes, the "mythical" 2.5L EB !

 

Anyone seen one Ford press release ever mentioning it ?

[rkisler]

Ah yes, the "mythical" 2.5L EB !

 

Anyone seen one Ford press release ever mentioning it ?

 

I don't know about displacement, but as I mentioned earlier, Derek K. stated in Ford's auto show reveal on Sunday that Ford would have EB 4 cylinders available in every car and crossover.

[NickF1011]

Ah yes, the "mythical" 2.5L EB !

 

Anyone seen one Ford press release ever mentioning it ?

 

I'm not saying if it does or not does exist. All I'm saying is the specs on the 1.6 and 2.0 EB's we've seen have been inadequate for the Flex. So if there is going to be an EB that would work in the Flex, it had better be a 2.5.

[MKII]

Ah yes, the "mythical" 2.5L EB !

 

Anyone seen one Ford press release ever mentioning it ?

 

No, but I read somewhere that the EB 2.0L would be offered in low pressure Turbo and high pressure with hp from 200 up to 275, and also this EB 2.0L T will replace the Volvo 2.5T used in EU Focus ST, Mondeo , and S-Max.

 

Ford N.A. is supposed to be offering the next C-Max 3 row version for North America Yes? I saw a spy pic from a German magazine showing the current skin C-Max on a stretched C platform with 3 rows. If Ford builds that in the USA and puts the EB 1.6L T with 180hp , that vehicle should get well over 40mpg highway cycle, if the predicted mpg numbers quoted by Ford for the Linclon C size concept are correct.

Would that be a suitable car for Chucks Mom?

Edited January 14, 2009 by MKII

[battyr]

I don't know about displacement, but as I mentioned earlier, Derek K. stated in Ford's auto show reveal on Sunday that Ford would have EB 4 cylinders available in every car and crossover.

 

I agree that Ford needs a 2.5 EcoBoost, but that does not mean that they have the resources to develop it now.

 

The 2.0 L EB should produce 225 hp and comparable torque to a 3.0 L V-6, With a 6 speed, 225 hp should be powerful enough for a high mileage version of the Flex. If not, then we know it will get the 3.5 L EB anyway. The 2.0 L EB is just fine for anything smaller than a Taurus.

[NickF1011]

The 2.0 L EB is just fine for anything smaller than a Taurus.

 

Which is why I said I don't expect to see a 4 cylinder EB in anything larger than the Edge.

[battyr]

No, but I read somewhere that the EB 2.0L would be offered in low pressure Turbo and high pressure, and also this EB 2.0L T will replace the Volvo 2.5T used in EU Focus ST, Mondeo , and S-Max.

 

Ford N.A. is supposed to be offering the next C-Max 3 row version for North America Yes? I saw a spy pic from a German magazine showing the current skin C-Max on a stretched C platform with 3 rows. If Ford builds that in the USA and puts the EB 1.6L T with 180hp , that vehicle should get well over 40mpg highway cycle, if the predicted mpg numbers quoted by Ford for the Linclon C size concept are correct.

Would that be a suitable car for Chucks Mom?

 

I personally think the 2.5L I-5 Turbo needs to be replaced with something.

 

I can see the 2.0L EB replacing the 2.5 but not the 2.5L T. IMHO the EB is either not compatible with a high pressure tubo, will lose the low rpm torque or lose fuel efficiency with a high pressure turbo. In theory, a new 2.0 L could match the power of a old 2.5 L by adding DI, improving valvetrain and improving the turbos. But people always demand an improvement in power and all these things can be added to the 2.5 L.