sub fund and 3% bonus modification

[musicman]

It amazes me how we keep losing benifits when we have a contract. What good is a contract when your leadership sells you out. Ford supposedly isn't asking for any money, yet they sure ride the coat tails of everyone that has their hands out. Are the rest of the plants taking in a bunch of shoulda been retired people for no apparent reason during a constant wave of layoffs? When are these corparations going to figure out that when you ship all you jobs out of the country for that CHEAP LABOR, no one can afford to buy'em. Gotta love it!!

[Q-bert]

You should stuff something in that mouthhole Q-bert.

 

 

Actually, I was making fun back at him for having unemployment, but if you want to point jabs, go ahead.

[lquidspine]

name='Skilled1' date='Feb 19 2009, 06:22 PM' post='467203']

 

First of all we have no idea what has been negotiated.

 

Is their shared sacrifice?

No reports yet as to any shared sacrifices except more salaried getting the ax

 

More investments?

this promise has been broken before, a new flex body shop is a nice investment like the one that is collecting dust in Wixom that was brand new in 1998.

 

Secondly retirees cant vote. In 2005 they took a hit and could not vote on it.

Truely sad, my guess is they expect us to look after them.

 

This time it is our turn to make small sacrifices as long as retirees are treated fairly.

Less cash up front for a fund that was underfunded when it started, is that fairly to you ?

 

If we keep saying no we are basically keeping our heads in the sand.

Or seek alternative sacrifices than cutting our own throats, just my opinion why I am saying no

 

I feel we should give a good look at any changes to the agreement before all of this bull s#$t continues.

Many of the leaks discussed on this site have already been confirmed by news and union rep's(not officially) but just like the 07 contract leaks these days happen.

 

If you have 20 or less years you should be concerned (my seniority)

 

If you are retirement eligible you should be concerned

 

If you are a retiree you should be concerned.

Safe to say we all need to be concerned, but this is not the first time autoworkers have had to make tough choices.

 

It is time to forge our future now before a bankruptcy judge does it for us. Just ask your neighbors that worked for textile, airline and steel companies which their loss of jobs and pension is more than words.

If this is the future you speak about forging we started that in 2005 with the first round of concessions, sorry if I disagree that bending over our retiree's and bending over ourselves is not a future I wish to take part in.

 

I am embarrassed to read how we tear up and kick our leadership and fight among ourselves. We need to start supporting our leadership like brothers and sisters should. Solidarity is a easy word to say, but do we practice it. I think not.

 

I believe we need to be more vocal so maybe our leadership will actually hear what we want, because by reading here and talking to others they obviously are not hearing us.

When all of the people I talk with either are pissed and say they will vote no, or the others say "its a done deal, it wont matter what we vote it will pass 51% to 49%" does that not say anything as to how much those that pay attention feel leadership ignores the rank and file ?

 

I don't know everything on the inner workings of the local/international union, but being involved with my local Union I have witnessed first hand how some at that top feel entitled and all powerful and have no regard for what even some elected officials have to say.

 

I am not a huge fan of kicking the Union or Union officials down, but be honest Skilled did ya see some of the hidden language with the COA's ?

 

It was just a few years ago the companies had temps all over at every location while we had people on JSP, Do you not see the waste there ?

 

Sometimes the problems with the companies( Ford especially I am concerned about they help me feed my family) is so simple, a dumb ass like myself can see the problems but somehow people making millions of dollars can not. But those at the bottom always take the biggest hits when times gets tough.

 

Get a sack bro before everything is taken and nothing will matter anyway, we owe it to those before us, ourselves and those that come after us.

Edited February 21, 2009 by lquidspine

[Skilled1]

No reports yet as to any shared sacrifices except more salaried getting the ax

 

 

this promise has been broken before, a new flex body shop is a nice investment like the one that is collecting dust in Wixom that was brand new in 1998.

 

 

Truely sad, my guess is they expect us to look after them.

 

 

Less cash up front for a fund that was underfunded when it started, is that fairly to you ?

 

 

Or seek alternative sacrifices than cutting our own throats, just my opinion why I am saying no

 

 

Many of the leaks discussed on this site have already been confirmed by news and union rep's(not officially) but just like the 07 contract leaks these days happen.

 

 

Safe to say we all need to be concerned, but this is not the first time autoworkers have had to make tough choices.

 

 

If this is the future you speak about forging we started that in 2005 with the first round of concessions, sorry if I disagree that bending over our retiree's and bending over ourselves is not a future I wish to take part in.

 

 

 

I believe we need to be more vocal so maybe our leadership will actually hear what we want, because by reading here and talking to others they obviously are not hearing us.

When all of the people I talk with either are pissed and say they will vote no, or the others say "its a done deal, it wont matter what we vote it will pass 51% to 49%" does that not say anything as to how much those that pay attention feel leadership ignores the rank and file ?

 

I don't know everything on the inner workings of the local/international union, but being involved with my local Union I have witnessed first hand how some at that top feel entitled and all powerful and have no regard for what even some elected officials have to say.

 

I am not a huge fan of kicking the Union or Union officials down, but be honest Skilled did ya see some of the hidden language with the COA's ?

 

It was just a few years ago the companies had temps all over at every location while we had people on JSP, Do you not see the waste there ?

 

Sometimes the problems with the companies( Ford especially I am concerned about they help me feed my family) is so simple, a dumb ass like myself can see the problems but somehow people making millions of dollars can not. But those at the bottom always take the biggest hits when times gets tough.

 

Get a sack bro before everything is taken and nothing will matter anyway, we owe it to those before us, ourselves and those that come after us.

 

 

Thanks for the honest input.

 

I have been proactive my whole life, always five steps ahead of my visions.

 

I guess what I am trying to get across is simply voting "no" means a step closer to bankruptcy. Though I feel these changes will be temporary we need to trust our leadership.

 

This starts with Gettlefinger on down.

 

With the UAW presence in Washington with Ruether and the resources the IUAW have how does this benefit the IUAW to bring concessions to the membership?

 

How does it benefit the IUAW????

 

It doesn’t.

 

The UAW is looking out for our best interest period.

 

Do you think it is easy for them to bring us these changes?? I don’t think so.

 

We bash the very institution that looks out for us.

 

I guess what I am struggling with is the fact that The Republicans made it clear they want organized labor wiped out. They convinced the American consumer we are overpaid, lazy, and pampered. We will get no support from the American consumer if we vote this contract down. It will be on Fox News 24/7 and the Republicans again will turn our own American consumers against us.

 

Everyone in this country is hurting financially. We blow this one chance to get or patriotic Americans back buying our vehicles we are toast.

 

2 years ago US total markets share was 17 million vehicles per year. As of today the US is on track to sell 8.5 million vehicles. Basically half of the US sales gone. Translation = Half our production = gone. Which means Engine plants will close, transmission plants will close and with these flex lines coming in assembly plants will be consolidated and many will close.

 

You see pounding our chest and simply voting no gets us one step closer to the end.

 

Trust our leadership, ask questions and show solidarity.

 

Easier said than done.

 

Again look a few steps ahead as to the benefit of a possible concessions now and rewards later.

 

Be proactive and live to fight another day.

[level]

Actually, I was making fun back at him for having unemployment, but if you want to point jabs, go ahead.

 

 

Could tell from your post....at least add a LOL when you make a joke so everyone knows you are not serious. You can't see faces here. For example....I still thought that mt comment was funny about your mouth-hole LOL. See....now that funny.

[snoopy]

I agree! VOTE NO WHEN YOU HAVE THE CHANCE TO VOTE. NO NO NO NO!!! Did you know, that anyone that does not vote it is considered a YES vote. IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT ALL VOTE ON THE TENTATIVE AGREEMENT. VOTE NO NO NO NO!!!!!

[level]

I agree! VOTE NO WHEN YOU HAVE THE CHANCE TO VOTE. NO NO NO NO!!! Did you know, that anyone that does not vote it is considered a YES vote. IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT ALL VOTE ON THE TENTATIVE AGREEMENT. VOTE NO NO NO NO!!!!!

 

 

Please refrain from hijacking every thread with your stupid bullshit hype.

[TheEagle]

I agree! VOTE NO WHEN YOU HAVE THE CHANCE TO VOTE. NO NO NO NO!!! Did you know, that anyone that does not vote it is considered a YES vote. IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT ALL VOTE ON THE TENTATIVE AGREEMENT. VOTE NO NO NO NO!!!!!

That is not true. If you don't vote your vote does not count at all like all elections or ratifications. Why are you telling lies?

 

I have'nt even seen the agreement yet and you want me to commit a No vote? Are you stupid or somthing?

[guilt trip]

That is not true. If you don't vote your vote does not count at all like all elections or ratifications. Why are you telling lies?

 

I have'nt even seen the agreement yet and you want me to commit a No vote? Are you stupid or somthing?

True enough. Wait until you hear/read the agreement before jumping the gun.

Also ask if your Reps if the Union is allowed to veto the vote. I don't know how the UAW works compared to the CAW. If they are, and I think they can, it won't matter what you vote, it'll pass.

[the prisoner]

yes listen to what they say and also ask them what concessions that we are giving what concessions are they giving we gave up 3% last contract gettlefucker gave himeself a raise so if there not giving then we don't give period . hi paid lazy ass giveback backstabbers !!! lead by fucking example i loose pay you loose pay.

[400member]

Well, my father in law, a retiree, got a letter yesterday. I'm picking it up this afternoon to scan it. It's about his VEBA. Apparently some dire warnings. Now, my father in law is a retiree as is my own father (since this December). I, personally, am willing to bite the bullet and give up part of my sub, take a wage cut, lose COLA, never see overtime again, etc. BUT THAT ALL GOES OUT THE DOOR IF EVEN ONE SINGLE RETIREE LOSES ONE GODDAMN DOLLAR IN THEIR PENSION OR MEDICAL BENEFITS! That is my position and it will remain unchanged. I know that this will not apply to everyone but, hey, the way I see it, for as hard as the retirees fought for our benefits and wages, the least I can do is make a stand, even a nominal one, to protect what they fought for! Those dickheads in the IUAW and the company managed to totally screw everything up and now those who went before, are here now and will come after will bear the brunt of it while these assholes go off into the sunset scott free! Unfreakinbelievable!

 

Isn't it strange, that in our history the UAW has been able to maintain and grow contracts through WWI, WWII, the Koreon War, the Viet Nam War, Desert Storm, multiple NATO actions, multiple recessions and an oil embargo, but now we have to give it all back. It sure lends credance to the leadership of yesterday and those so-called leaders of today. PATCO was given away and started the downhill slide of labor across this country. When we heard Owen Bieber say in public that the UAW was going to maintain the corporate agenda, everyone that heard that knew it was going down the tubes.

[snoopy]

Please refrain from hijacking every thread with your stupid bullshit hype.

 

Just go vote Have you ever wondered how these concessions keep passing when the polling is for no? hmmmm go get it level

Edited February 22, 2009 by snoopy

[Skilled1]

Isn't it strange, that in our history the UAW has been able to maintain and grow contracts through WWI, WWII, the Koreon War, the Viet Nam War, Desert Storm, multiple NATO actions, multiple recessions and an oil embargo, but now we have to give it all back. It sure lends credance to the leadership of yesterday and those so-called leaders of today. PATCO was given away and started the downhill slide of labor across this country. When we heard Owen Bieber say in public that the UAW was going to maintain the corporate agenda, everyone that heard that knew it was going down the tubes.

 

Good point....

 

You see WWI, WWII, the Koreon War, the Viet Nam War we were all patriotic which means we cared for the welfare of our country.

 

Some how Americans lost their sense of patriotism. They started supporting other countries by purchasing manufatured goods which were made here but put patriotism aside and started supporting goods from other countries.

 

When the UAW was founded and gained strength they never heard of Lexus, Honda, Toyota, Hyundia, Shelby, Corker, McConnell, Bill Orielly and on and on.

 

Our fore Fathers never had these fights

 

This is a different fight our Union is in.

 

Our contracts now hinge on public acceptance, Washington, Us, our customers........... Everything now is played out on the television.

 

We have 1 shot to get our American customers back__________

 

We pass acceptable contract revisions and gain respect with our own American customers and breathe patriotism back in their lungs---

 

or

 

Vote down revisions and piss off the American public and we are done. Nice known ya....... Hey atleast we went down swingin. We will not survive the backlash of pissed off Americans.

 

Speaking of patriotism I can not understand why we continue to speak against and spit on the UAW. The very insititution that protects us. I have always question the unions actions for better understanding but never to the crap that is spread around here.

[snoopy]

The union gave up two of the four lump-sum bonuses due workers during the four-year contract, the source said.

 

Supplemental unemployment benefits also have been limited. Idled workers with more than 20 years of service can collect SUB pay for 52 weeks at the traditional 72 percent of take-home pay and another 52 weeks at half pay, the source said. Workers with less than 20 years get 72 percent SUB pay for 39 weeks and half pay for an additional 39 weeks, the source said.

 

Those SUB provisions are all that UAW members can get now that the Jobs Bank has been eliminated. The Jobs Bank was a program that guaranteed idled workers 95 percent of pay and full benefits indefinitely if no other job could be found for them

[lquidspine]

Does anyone know how SUB funding and Short Work week are tied together off hand ?

I am looking for contract pages and such, I haven't looked at it myself yet but I will if no one knows off hand but here is why I ask.

 

1- JSP has been suspended (currently with no time table as to when the suspension will be lifted).

2- If SUB and Short Work week are tied into the same funding (944 million dollars per this contract lifespan).

 

My concern is this Ford has started adding shifts at facilities that honestly do not need them; example DTP just started there C-crew again this past week and before they even started training they announced planned down weeks 7 total and they have added to that list since then.

 

So far this week to my knowledge neither of the 3 shifts have ran a full 10 hours production, while repair bays have ran 10's the actual production has not.

 

If short work week funding is tied into SUB funding that will deplete that funding very quickly.

 

My worry is Ford has strategical over populated plants clearing out JSP in an effort to drain SUB funds, until I find it I am thinking what happens once SUB funds are depleted of the required 944 million this contract and we don't have JSP to fall back on ?

 

Thoughts please.

[Hobbitt]

Our contracts now hinge on public acceptance, Washington, Us, our customers.....

I respectufully disagree.....MOST of the Unions "fights" have been very unpopular with the public. However past battles were fought in spite of that because it was the right thing to do for the membership. I believe there comes a time to make a stand.......even if it is a final stand.... I believe we owe it to the RETIREES and all the great men and women that have come before us . If you think that the Company is going to stop here, then you are either naive, or foolish sir. We have given 8 of the last 10 raises/COLA...let them take $$ from the retirees (health care ) We have opened the contract so many times I have lost count... If you can honestly answer YES to this question I would consider voting to give concessions.........Ready ?? .. If Ford Motor Company miraculuosly turned a profit in 2010, would they open the contract up to the UAW early , and let us renegotiate for a better deal ??????? FUCK NO they wouldn't !!! So why are we ?? Again? and again and again and again ???? Remember the definition of insanity..................same results !

[Skilled1]

I respectufully disagree.....MOST of the Unions "fights" have been very unpopular with the public. However past battles were fought in spite of that because it was the right thing to do for the membership. I believe there comes a time to make a stand.......even if it is a final stand.... I believe we owe it to the RETIREES and all the great men and women that have come before us . If you think that the Company is going to stop here, then you are either naive, or foolish sir. We have given 8 of the last 10 raises/COLA...let them take $$ from the retirees (health care ) We have opened the contract so many times I have lost count... If you can honestly answer YES to this question I would consider voting to give concessions.........Ready ?? .. If Ford Motor Company miraculuosly turned a profit in 2010, would they open the contract up to the UAW early , and let us renegotiate for a better deal ??????? FUCK NO they wouldn't !!! So why are we ?? Again? and again and again and again ???? Remember the definition of insanity..................same results !

 

 

Remember American Axle.

 

Times are different son. We will be lucky to make a profit by 2011.

 

Go talk to your nieghbors that work for GM and Chrysler. I would bet the contract changes will pass by atleast 90%.

 

They know the score

 

They/We go into bankruptcy these jobs aint comin back.

 

If they dont touch my base rate I will be better off when we start banging out vehicles again. If the paper is correct and they take the perf bonus and Christmas bonus I will make it up on overtime.

 

We are only a few months behind them.

 

Go talk to your nieghbors that have lost their jobs. Do you think they will have sympathy for us while we are working. Then we vote down a agreement. He will never buy a domestic again.

 

Respectfully, Skilled1

[Hobbitt]

Remember American Axle.

 

Times are different son. We will be lucky to make a profit by 2011.

 

Go talk to your nieghbors that work for GM and Chrysler. I would bet the contract changes will pass by atleast 90%.

 

They know the score

 

They/We go into bankruptcy these jobs aint comin back.

 

If they dont touch my base rate I will be better off when we start banging out vehicles again. If the paper is correct and they take the perf bonus and Christmas bonus I will make it up on overtime.

 

We are only a few months behind them.

 

Go talk to your nieghbors that have lost their jobs. Do you think they will have sympathy for us while we are working. Then we vote down a agreement. He will never buy a domestic again.

 

Respectfully, Skilled1

I am not your son pops.... Now that we are even on the jabs we can have an adult discussion ok?? I never said we would make a profit by 2011. Also that didnt answer my question, but we both know the answer so ...... I have friends that work for GM , and I have talked to them. I only know 7 so its not a huge number, however I have known them all my life. 2 are now retired, and the other 5 still working. (from 17 to 31 yrs sen.) 3 of the 5 still working are of the same opinion...no more concessions, 1 of them says to "give em what the need" and the other is undecided. I have not talked to the 2 retirees for a while so can not say what they want. As far as neighbors that have lost jobs...they could give a rats ass about what happens to us. (thats kinda what got the US in this situation) Its just a matter of time before everyone else is in our boat...don't you see that ? Catapiller/Sprint/Harley etc etc etc.... all manufacturing is being devastated right now..the rest are right behind us. The Unions have always LED the way, and if we keep eroding our wages/benefits then which way are we leading the rest ??

[jm2607]

Remember American Axle.

 

Times are different son. We will be lucky to make a profit by 2011.

 

Go talk to your nieghbors that work for GM and Chrysler. I would bet the contract changes will pass by atleast 90%.

 

They know the score

 

They/We go into bankruptcy these jobs aint comin back.

 

If they dont touch my base rate I will be better off when we start banging out vehicles again. If the paper is correct and they take the perf bonus and Christmas bonus I will make it up on overtime.

 

We are only a few months behind them.

 

Go talk to your nieghbors that have lost their jobs. Do you think they will have sympathy for us while we are working. Then we vote down a agreement. He will never buy a domestic again.

 

Respectfully, Skilled1

"go talk to your neighbors that work at GM and Chrysler. I would bet the contract changes will pass by atleast 90%"

 

Are you sure about that? You should visit some GM forums Thats not what they say. I actually do have neighbors that work for GM--they will be voting no. They feel if 9, 13, 100 whatever billion it is now, does not keep GM out of BK neither will them giving up their Christmas bonus. :shades:

[damagedone37]

Remember American Axle.

 

Times are different son. We will be lucky to make a profit by 2011.

 

Go talk to your nieghbors that work for GM and Chrysler. I would bet the contract changes will pass by atleast 90%.

 

They know the score

 

They/We go into bankruptcy these jobs aint comin back.

 

If they dont touch my base rate I will be better off when we start banging out vehicles again. If the paper is correct and they take the perf bonus and Christmas bonus I will make it up on overtime.

 

We are only a few months behind them.

 

Go talk to your nieghbors that have lost their jobs. Do you think they will have sympathy for us while we are working. Then we vote down a agreement. He will never buy a domestic again.

 

Respectfully, Skilled1

 

hahahahah!

[Ckr01]

BREAKING NEWS....This just in , concessions passed 51%-49% in a close vote !!!!!! :hysterical:

[fordworker]

Does anyone know how SUB funding and Short Work week are tied together off hand ?

I am looking for contract pages and such, I haven't looked at it myself yet but I will if no one knows off hand but here is why I ask.

 

1- JSP has been suspended (currently with no time table as to when the suspension will be lifted).

2- If SUB and Short Work week are tied into the same funding (944 million dollars per this contract lifespan).

 

My concern is this Ford has started adding shifts at facilities that honestly do not need them; example DTP just started there C-crew again this past week and before they even started training they announced planned down weeks 7 total and they have added to that list since then.

 

So far this week to my knowledge neither of the 3 shifts have ran a full 10 hours production, while repair bays have ran 10's the actual production has not.

 

If short work week funding is tied into SUB funding that will deplete that funding very quickly.

 

My worry is Ford has strategical over populated plants clearing out JSP in an effort to drain SUB funds, until I find it I am thinking what happens once SUB funds are depleted of the required 944 million this contract and we don't have JSP to fall back on ?

 

Thoughts please.

there overloading plnts so they can say look no one is laidoff so pass this contract then shortly after that they will be laying off several thousand people with no JSP and those laidoff have a good chance 90% that they aint coming back. 9 months of sub then see ya.

[moon0917]

there overloading plnts so they can say look no one is laidoff so pass this contract then shortly after that they will be laying off several thousand people with no JSP and those laidoff have a good chance 90% that they aint coming back. 9 months of sub then see ya.

 

 

Absolutely... I heard the same thing from an alternate committee person. Once JSP is cleared out and everyone is placed, there will be a mass layoff reducing lowest seniority in each plant company wide. I'm not sure how accurate this information is, however; by looking around and seeing unnecessary shifts being added, etc... this sounds very logical to me.

[Dale143]

While reading this post replace the words boat,raft and canoe with the word buyout.

 

There is an old story preachers tell about a man trapped on the top of his house during a flood. The water is swiftly rising. As this man sits on his roof, fearful of being swept away by the current, he cries out to God, “God please deliver me.”

A few moments later, a farmer friend arrives with his boat. “Hey, friend, want a ride to safety?” he asks.

“No,” replies the man on top of his house. “God is going to deliver me.”

An hour later, the water is up to the gutters. A voluntary rescue person comes by on his yellow raft. “Hey, let’s get you off of there—and on to safety,” he yells.

But the man on top of his house refuses to go. “God is going to deliver me.”

Another hour passes and now the water is halfway up the roof. Roof Man is now on top of his chimney, nervously looking down at certain death and destruction.

Fortunately, a Red Cross volunteer swings by in a canoe and offers to ride Roof Man to safety. But Roof Man refuses. “No, God is going to deliver me.”

A couple of hours pass by and the water sweeps over the top of Roof Man’s house. He is carried away by the current and drowns. When he gets to Heaven, he meets Jesus and says, “I though you were going to deliver me.”

Jesus looks down at Roof Man and says, “I sent a boat, an inflatable raft, and a canoe—but you refused each one

 

By replacing the words boat,raft and canoe with buyout I'm starting to wander if maybe i should have taken one? :shades:

[mechanic]

I can't believe anyone out there is seriously considering voting yes for this nonsense. we should stand together and go down together or rebound together. the little amounts of money they seem to be asking us to cut are not going to make a difference, but what else are they going to want, or sneak by us? draw a line in the sand now.

 

If you want to bring up american axle, then let's talk about that, the workers can stand proud and say that they stood together and won the best deal they could. before the no vote and the strike they weren't even being offered a buyout. at least by standing up to the company, they got the chance to leave with a check and a fresh start.