rmc523 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Market segments are great for magazine comparisons. Beyond that, they usually don't mean a whole lot to the real-world consumer. Of the choices I mentioned earlier as possible candidates for my next car, they could be considered to cover Large Car (Taurus SHO and G8), Midsize Car (Fusion Sport, Mazda6), Entry Luxury Midsize Car (MKZ), Entry Luxury Small Car (Volco C30), and Large CUV (Flex). What do these segment labels mean to me as a consumer? Absolutely nothing!! I considered an Edge before I decided on Flex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgande Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 ok, i'm gonna try and wrap this up in a nutshell...whilst i DO NOT underestimate the Genesis as a product, or its significance...unlike the press ansd worshipers...I also do NOT OVERESTIMATE the product...which seems to be a BLATANT trend..... Agreed. There is a tendency to over praise this car. But I think that's because they think it will appeal to so many people who may want a E or a 5 but can't afford one after they added stuff like air conditioning and and cup holders. And as stated, this vehicle is going to have a hard time attracting real buyers because they sell it at a Hyundai dealership (I did say that decision was flawed). I do think its important to know what your competing against, because it can help judge how well the market is receiving the car. Lincoln is playing catch up, and so I would think they would care to know where their buyers are coming from, what they cross shopped against, as one of the indicators of market penetration. I know every time I walk into a dealership and ask for info about a car, the sales associate always asked me what else I've look at. They are always interested in knowing if any of the other potential candidates are one of that vehicles target competitors. And for obvious reasons as I stated. Truth is, I really want a 5 series Lincoln. Mater of fact, I want an M-5 Lincoln or a AMG CLS Lincoln. but i can't get one. So I'm stuck, because Ford won't give me what I want...so i'm forced to look elsewhere but I dont want to look elsewhere because I want a Lincoln for my next vehicle. I even put a Navigator front clip on my Supercrew. :shades: But for now, I have to wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I do think its important to know what your competing against, because it can help judge how well the market is receiving the car. Lincoln is playing catch up, and so I would think they would care to know where their buyers are coming from, what they cross shopped against, as one of the indicators of market penetration. I know every time I walk into a dealership and ask for info about a car, the sales associate always asked me what else I've look at. They are always interested in knowing if any of the other potential candidates are one of that vehicles target competitors. And for obvious reasons as I stated. Yes, of course it is important to keep track of such information. But that has nothing to do with the automaker coming up with their own preconceived notions about what their vehicle is actually going to compete against. All it has to do with is understanding your customer better. What good is telling the press your car competes against Car A and Car B if after a few months you realize most of your buyers were actually considering Car C and Car D and trading in a lot of Car E's? Toyota ran into this with their Scion division. Automakers should simply build good products, market them as such, and let the consumer decide if said vehicle fits their needs and wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Agreed. There is a tendency to over praise this car. But I think that's because they think it will appeal to so many people who may want a E or a 5 but can't afford one after they added stuff like air conditioning and and cup holders. And as stated, this vehicle is going to have a hard time attracting real buyers because they sell it at a Hyundai dealership (I did say that decision was flawed). I do think its important to know what your competing against, because it can help judge how well the market is receiving the car. Lincoln is playing catch up, and so I would think they would care to know where their buyers are coming from, what they cross shopped against, as one of the indicators of market penetration. I know every time I walk into a dealership and ask for info about a car, the sales associate always asked me what else I've look at. They are always interested in knowing if any of the other potential candidates are one of that vehicles target competitors. And for obvious reasons as I stated. Truth is, I really want a 5 series Lincoln. Mater of fact, I want an M-5 Lincoln or a AMG CLS Lincoln. but i can't get one. So I'm stuck, because Ford won't give me what I want...so i'm forced to look elsewhere but I dont want to look elsewhere because I want a Lincoln for my next vehicle. I even put a Navigator front clip on my Supercrew. :shades: But for now, I have to wait... my opinion...the ONLY conquest sales from Mercedes and BMW are people hit by the crunch and questioning the $650-800 a month lease payments...given the choice, irrespective of common sense, they STILL want the propellor or Chicken foot up front...tough times mean compromize....M5 lincoln....look no further than the ecos coming out, SHO will "perhaps" raise your eyebrows.....theres some SCARY 0-60 times being touted....and Morg ( related to Borg? ) do you realize the pricing of the BMW and Benz equivilents....perhaps you should price them and realize American manufacturers should be proud to be mentioned in the same sentence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgande Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 my opinion...the ONLY conquest sales from Mercedes and BMW are people hit by the crunch and questioning the $650-800 a month lease payments...given the choice, irrespective of common sense, they STILL want the propellor or Chicken foot up front...tough times mean compromize....M5 lincoln....look no further than the ecos coming out, SHO will "perhaps" raise your eyebrows.....theres some SCARY 0-60 times being touted....and Morg ( related to Borg? ) do you realize the pricing of the BMW and Benz equivilents....perhaps you should price them and realize American manufacturers should be proud to be mentioned in the same sentence I don't have an issue with the price. I just came to realize that the majority of people are buying stripped down luxury cars to get them into the "affordability range". So are you saying that an Ecoboost/AWD MKS (Taurus) will hang with an 500+ hp 8500rpm redline M5? I'm sure for daily driving it will ride far better...but performance driving??? And not just 0-60, but across the board driving dynamics?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I don't have an issue with the price. I just came to realize that the majority of people are buying stripped down luxury cars to get them into the "affordability range". So are you saying that an Ecoboost/AWD MKS (Taurus) will hang with an 500+ hp 8500rpm redline M5? I'm sure for daily driving it will ride far better...but performance driving??? And not just 0-60, but across the board driving dynamics?? nope....but it may come surprizingly close and actually may be superior in day to day, let alone maintenence....at 1/2 the price no less........makes a good case study no?...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 So are you saying that an Ecoboost/AWD MKS (Taurus) will hang with an 500+ hp 8500rpm redline M5? I'm sure for daily driving it will ride far better...but performance driving??? And not just 0-60, but across the board driving dynamics?? I think the 500 hp German would struggle to stay with the AWD Taurus on less than perfect roads. Imagine the scene in winter time for a start, or on wet roads in summer time - get the picture? Any time the weather comes out Sigfried runs and hides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I don't have an issue with the price. I just came to realize that the majority of people are buying stripped down luxury cars to get them into the "affordability range". So are you saying that an Ecoboost/AWD MKS (Taurus) will hang with an 500+ hp 8500rpm redline M5? I'm sure for daily driving it will ride far better...but performance driving??? And not just 0-60, but across the board driving dynamics?? Once again someone says that Lincoln is "doomed" because they aren't building the type of car that THEY want to buy - and they assume that everyone else wants to buy the same thing. Fact is most people buying RWD V8 cars don't even care which wheels are driven and only care about the engine because it gives them a bigger number on the trunk (E500 vs. E320) and bragging rights over their friends who bought the smaller one. It usually has nothing to do with performance (M/AMG being the exception). The Genesis offers V8 power and RWD. The EB MKS offers V8 power with AWD and V6 fuel economy and more amenities. When the Genesis outsells the MKS consistently, then you might have an argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) I think the 500 hp German would struggle to stay with the AWD Taurus on less than perfect roads.Imagine the scene in winter time for a start, or on wet roads in summer time - get the picture? Any time the weather comes out Sigfried runs and hides. to even be mentioned in the same breath i think is absolutely applaudable....and refutes COMPLETELY the title of this thread....HOW BOUT THEM APPLES! Edited March 3, 2009 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 When the Genesis outsells the MKS consistently, then you might have an argument. It'd have to start first... to even be mentioned in the same breath i think is absolutely applaudable....and refutes COMPLETELY the title of this thread....HOW BOUT THEM APPLES! I'd love to see the MKS EB run against the Audi A6 4.2... I'm sure the MKS would beat it, but it'd be something to watch. I almost said S6, but that really wouldn't be close... V10 FTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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