TomServo92 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I think this will put more pressure on the bond holders to take equity positions. They have to be convinced that real change is coming to GM. Wagoner has been the face of GM for 8 years. He's been reinventing GM for 7 of those years without much to show for it. Hopefully GM will follow Ford's lead and bring some in from outside who is not stuck in the GM way. GM needs a Mulally level change in the way they do everything. Exactly! This will be the catalyst for real change at GM. Is it too late though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I think this will put more pressure on the bond holders to take equity positions. They have to be convinced that real change is coming to GM. Wagoner has been the face of GM for 8 years. He's been reinventing GM for 7 of those years without much to show for it. Hopefully GM will follow Ford's lead and bring some in from outside who is not stuck in the GM way. GM needs a Mulally level change in the way they do everything. So they install King Kirk.. stock rises for about a month, but nothing actually comes out of the GM tower to speak of.. Lot of mumbling bumbling going on.. finally it's said Saab and Hummer are Sold, Saturn is left to die in it's orbit. Meanwhile GM continues to flop on the shore like a fish out of water. Year goes by.. sales still have continued to plummet and Ford's have risen greatly.. Last thing you'll hear is exactly what I said a week ago, their answer lies in their history. That history is made up of grabbing nameplates and corralling under one corp. name. I just hope that this time, GM will not be under someone else's name. (Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick) Ford, Lincoln, Mercury. Only then will GM look much better than Ford does now. Oh yea, Don't think GM can't make it like that, they have it where Ford is just riding a high tide right now. Ford rises to the rightful title of America's car maker. Chrysler dies on the vine due to lack of buyers. With all the death news coming out, their core buyers are now sacred and decide to just chuck their old feelings and move on. They can't continue selling vehicles under a loss until everything is gone. Too many other makes out their to keep buying Chrysler quality like it has been for 30 years. Pressure needs to be put on Cerberus and HARD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 The folks over at GM Inside News are tearing each other up over this. There's already a 12 page thread about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe8737 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 So they install King Kirk.. stock rises for about a month, but nothing actually comes out of the GM tower to speak of.. Lot of mumbling bumbling going on.. finally it's said Saab and Hummer are Sold, Saturn is left to die in it's orbit. Meanwhile GM continues to flop on the shore like a fish out of water. Year goes by.. sales still have continued to plummet and Ford's have risen greatly.. Last thing you'll hear is exactly what I said a week ago, their answer lies in their history. That history is made up of grabbing nameplates and corralling under one corp. name. I just hope that this time, GM will not be under someone else's name. (Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick) Ford, Lincoln, Mercury. Only then will GM look much better than Ford does now. Oh yea, Don't think GM can't make it like that, they have it where Ford is just riding a high tide right now. Ford rises to the rightful title of America's car maker. Chrysler dies on the vine due to lack of buyers. With all the death news coming out, their core buyers are now sacred and decide to just chuck their old feelings and move on. They can't continue selling vehicles under a loss until everything is gone. Too many other makes out their to keep buying Chrysler quality like it has been for 30 years. Pressure needs to be put on Cerberus and HARD! Since when have Ford's sales risen greatly? http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090303/auto_sales.html?.v=8 Down 48% from last year?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Since when have Ford's sales risen greatly? http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090303/auto_sales.html?.v=8 Down 48% from last year?? He's talking a year from now, and perhaps market share would've been a better word/phrase to use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 I still don't see GM avoiding bankruptcy. No way around it. THAT is what they need - a clean slate to start over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Year goes by.. sales still have continued to plummet and Ford's have risen greatly.. Last thing you'll hear is exactly what I said a week ago, their answer lies in their history. That history is made up of grabbing nameplates and corralling under one corp. name. I just hope that this time, GM will not be under someone else's name. (Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick) Ford, Lincoln, Mercury. Only then will GM look much better than Ford does now. Oh yea, Don't think GM can't make it like that, they have it where Ford is just riding a high tide right now. Since when have Ford's sales risen greatly? http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090303/auto_sales.html?.v=8 Down 48% from last year?? Learn to read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe8737 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Learn to read Learn to write...more appropriate would have been, "A year from now..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 Learn to write...more appropriate would have been, "A year from now..." "A year goes by" = "A year from now" Silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 So they install King Kirk.. stock rises for about a month, but nothing actually comes out of the GM tower to speak of.. Lot of mumbling bumbling going on.. finally it's said Saab and Hummer are Sold, Saturn is left to die in it's orbit. Meanwhile GM continues to flop on the shore like a fish out of water. Year goes by.. sales still have continued to plummet and Ford's have risen greatly.. Last thing you'll hear is exactly what I said a week ago, their answer lies in their history. That history is made up of grabbing nameplates and corralling under one corp. name. I just hope that this time, GM will not be under someone else's name. (Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick) Ford, Lincoln, Mercury. Only then will GM look much better than Ford does now. Oh yea, Don't think GM can't make it like that, they have it where Ford is just riding a high tide right now. Ford rises to the rightful title of America's car maker. Chrysler dies on the vine due to lack of buyers. With all the death news coming out, their core buyers are now sacred and decide to just chuck their old feelings and move on. They can't continue selling vehicles under a loss until everything is gone. Too many other makes out their to keep buying Chrysler quality like it has been for 30 years. Pressure needs to be put on Cerberus and HARD! I don't see Kerkorian as an answer. First he is too old to provide consistent leadership and second, his rep as a greenmailer and raider would not inspire the confidence needed. There are probably some people at GM who could do the job if given a free hand to make substantial changes. I'm sure there are other Mulally types available who have a strong record in turning around companies in trouble. I agree that Ford can benefit from all the tumult in the industry. If things start to improve and Ford can avoid having to tap federal loans they will have a great deal of support from the public. They also seem to be in the best position productwise to increase thier share when credit is freed up. Cerebus is problematic. They have the money to invest into Chrysler but they don't want to use/risk their own cash. I don't believe that Cerberus was ever serious about fixing and running Chrysler. They thought they could get it for nothing and flip it fast. Then the credit crunch kicked in and they couldn't find anyone to buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 (edited) Peugeot Citroen canned their COE over a $343 Mil Euro loss. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090329/ap_on_...nce_citroen_ceo Edited March 30, 2009 by Mark B. Morrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardmayo Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 (edited) From the AP: The Obama administration autos task force Monday rejected the turnaround plans of General Motors and Chrysler LLC and warned both could be put through bankruptcy to slash debts. "We have unfortunately concluded that neither plan submitted by either company represents viability and therefore does not warrant the substantial additional investments that they requested," said a senior administration official, who asked not to be named. link Edited March 30, 2009 by richardmayo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Lets look at the line you left out. The Obama administration autos task force Monday rejected the turnaround plans of General Motors and Chrysler LLC and warned both could be put through bankruptcy to slash debts. The announcement by the White House autos panel headed by former investment banker Steve Rattner marked a stunning reversal for management at both automakers and for GM investors and creditors who had bet on a softer line. "We have unfortunately concluded that neither plan submitted by either company represents viability and there fore does not warrant the substantial additional investments that they requested," said a senior administration official, who asked not to be named. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 (edited) And now Ford has to compete with this.. Look what Fiat said and their trying to link up with Chrysler? TIMELINE-Global auto industry troubles Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:43am EDTMarch 30 (Reuters) ------------------------------------------------- General Motors Corp Chief Executive Rick Wagoner resigned under pressure from President Barack Obama's administration on Sunday.In France, PSA Peugeot Citroen also ousted Chief Executive Christian Streiff and replaced him with Philippe Varin, who will take up the position on June 1. Here is a timeline of the ups and downs in the auto industry during the financial crisis: Oct. 23/24, 2008 - General Motors (GM.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and Chrysler [CBS.UL], which at the time are discussing a merger, pledge to cut jobs and close plants as the downturn in auto sales deepens. [iD:nL0464508] -- In France, Renault (RENA.PA: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and PSA Peugeot Citroen (PEUP.PA: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) slash their 2008 profitability outlooks and pledge to make major production cuts to combat the crisis. [iD:nLN3604] Oct. 28 - Honda (7267.T: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) warns that full-year profits will miss targets because of falling sales and a strong yen. [iD:nT151521] Dec. 4 - The heads of GM, Ford (F.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and Chrysler travel from Detroit to Washington in hybrid vehicles packed with action plans a month after being mocked for coming to earlier congressional hearings on private jets without detailed plans to revitalise their companies. -- They agree to work for $1 a year if lawmakers approve their bids for emergency government aid totalling $34 billion. Dec. 6 - Fiat (FIA.MI: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) head Sergio Marchionne predicts only six volume carmakers will remain post-crisis. [iD:nL8643140] Dec. 19 - The U.S. announces a $17.4 billion lifeline to Detroit carmakers from the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief (TARP) programme. GM is to receive $13.4 billion and Chrysler $4 billion. Ford says it does not need a loan. Dec. 20 - Canada pledges C$4 billion ($3.28 billion) in emergency loans to the Canadian arms of GM and Chrysler. [iD:nB108203] Jan. 13, 2009 - Germany unveils a 1.5 billion euro aid package, including 2,500 euro incentives for new car purchases. [iD:nSP378771] Jan. 14 - China halves sales tax on cars with small engines and offers one-off payments for owners trading in high-emission vehicles for cleaner ones. [iD:nPEK171150] Jan. 20 - Fiat (FIA.MI: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and Chrysler strike a deal in which the Italian manufacturer gets a 35 percent stake in exchange for access to technology and overseas markets. [iD:nLK379561] Jan. 27 - Britain says it will guarantee up to 2.3 billion pounds ($3.29 billion) of loans for research into environmentally friendly technologies. [iD:nLAL002143] Feb. 6 - Toyota Motor Co (7203.T: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), the world's largest carmaker, says it is on track to post an operating loss of some 450 billion yen ($4.95 billion) for the year to end-March, the first group operating loss in its 70-year history. [iD:nT125619] Feb. 6 - Italy unveils a $1.7 billion package of measures to help its car sector, including a scrapping incentive. [iD:nL674294] Feb. 9 - France pledges over 7 billion euros ($8.91 billion) of support for its car industry but President Nicolas Sarkozy insists that carmakers must protect French jobs.[iD:nL9664042] Feb. 13 - Spain approves a 4 billion euro package that includes 1.2 billion euros in state credit for car purchases during 2009 and 2010 and aid to help car part makers upgrade plants. [iD:nMDT006082] Feb. 17 - GM and Chrysler request nearly $22 billion in additional U.S. government loans as they submit plans with the new Obama administration on how they could restructure. ID:nN17384847] Feb. 20 - The Canadian units of GM and Chrysler say they are seeking as much as C$10 billion ($8 billion) in aid from the Canadian and Ontario governments. [iD:nN20303381] [iD:nWAT011041] March 16 - Steve Rattner, adviser to President Obama's autos task force, says the panel is committed to meeting a March 31 deadline for deciding whether GM and Chrysler can be restructured successfully. [iD:nN20495692] March 19 - The U.S. Treasury pledges $5 billion to aid auto suppliers crucial to the survival of the industry. [nWAT011182] March 22 - Abu Dhabi's Aabar Investments PJSC AABAR.AD takes a 9.1 percent stake in ailing German car giant Daimler worth 1.95 billion euros ($2.67 billion). [iD:LN133911] March 22 - Chancellor Angela Merkel says Germany is not aiming to take a stake in Opel, but may give the GM unit aid to help it survive. [iD:nLM58847] March 23 - Tata Motors (TAMO.BO: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) launches the Nano, slated to be the world's cheapest car at less than $2,000. Only about 50,000 cars will be available in the first year. [iD:nBOM499250] March 29 - GM Chief Executive Rick Wagoner resigns under pressure from the Obama administration two days before a March 31 deadline to prove it can become viable and worthy of new federal assistance. [iD:nN29279204] -- The board of Peugeot Citroen fires Chief Executive Christian Streiff after the carmaker last month posted a 343 million euro ($460 million) net loss and says it expects to stay in the red until 2010. Streiff will be replaced on June 1 by Philippe Varin. [iD:nLT74726] (Writing by David Cutler, London Editorial Reference Unit; Editing by Jon Loades-Carter) Edited March 30, 2009 by Critic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I can't imagine who would want to be GM CEO..... It only pays $1.00/year. Maybe the UAW would take the job and that would fix the concession issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHV 16V Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Fritz Henderson gets the CEO's job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Fritz Henderson gets the CEO's job. I understand that he is the "Temp" CEO. I say GM will bring in an outsider like Ford did, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Say what you want, this needed to happen for GM to move forward. Nardelli needs to get the axe at Chrysler and be replaced by Jim Press....ASAP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Why weren't similar heads made to roll from the ranks of High Finance, for considerably more outlaid monies? Any institution taken over by the FDIC has its management replaced as a matter of course. At other, larger, institutions, often the CEOs that caused the problems were gone by the time TARP money was being spread around. "Hank" Greenberg screwed AIG, and he's long gone. Ditto Sandy Weill & Citi, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I can't imagine who would want to be GM CEO..... It only pays $1.00/year. Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 (edited) Wagoner did get a $20M parting gift. Thanks for playing Who Screwed the Pooch. http://jalopnik.com/5190720/rick-wagoner-r...irement-package Edited March 30, 2009 by Mark B. Morrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 The fact the Wagoner is out isn't the real news. The big story is GM's Board of Directors is gone too! Henderson won't be around long. I can't believe it, but I think that everything that either got GM in this mess or was keeping it from fixing itself is now gone. Wagoner was holding on to the past far too much. No reason for Pontiac or Buick to exist anymore, divisional structure obsolete, always too quick to cave into the UAW. Board was a real joke, they would believe anything Rick and the others would tell them. Turn-around based on the Volt and sales rebounding to 16B units a year. This is going to get REAL interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 The big story is GM's Board of Directors is gone too! Henderson won't be around long. Link? I haven't seen that information anywhere, and I've been on this like fly on stink for the last 26 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Link? I haven't seen that information anywhere, and I've been on this like fly on stink for the last 26 hours. He meant this: Rick Wagoner, late of General Motors Corp (GM.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), never saw the ax coming. When he arrived at the Treasury Department for a meeting last Friday with Obama administration's autos task force, he was a 32-year GM veteran and a chief executive carrying the weight of the company's wrenching restructuring on his 6-foot-4 frame. Pressure for him to quit last fall when he first approached Washington for a bailout had faded. But Wagoner's plan for a GM turnaround and a $16 billion bailout was rejected in the meeting and the company where he spent his entire professional life fell off his shoulders. "In the course of that meeting, they requested that I step aside as CEO of GM, and so I have," Wagoner said in a message posted on the automaker's Website early Monday. A majority of GM's board will also be replaced. http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews...=44&sp=true Board of Directors: G. Wagoner Jr.: CEO John Bryan Jr.: GM corp. George Fisher Ph.D.: Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co. Philip Laskawy: Fannie Mae Kent Kresa: Avery Dennison Corp. Karen Katen: Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America Echard Pfeiffer: GM Corp. Armondo Codina: Florida East Coast Industries, Inc. Erskine Bowles: University of N. Carolina Kathy Marinello: Ceridan Corp. Errol Davis Jr.: Board of Regents of the Univ. System of Georgia E. Isdell: Coca-Cola Co. Mark Shannon: GM Corp. http://investing.businessweek.com/business...oard.asp?ric=GM 13 people; 7 MUST GO,, get your programs here, programs here, can't tell a player without a program. Start calling your bookies now,,, put a yard down on your fav's. or at least a dime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 He meant this:http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews...=44&sp=true Board of Directors: G. Wagoner Jr.: CEO John Bryan Jr.: GM corp. George Fisher Ph.D.: Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co. Philip Laskawy: Fannie Mae Kent Kresa: Avery Dennison Corp. Karen Katen: Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America Echard Pfeiffer: GM Corp. Armondo Codina: Florida East Coast Industries, Inc. Erskine Bowles: University of N. Carolina Kathy Marinello: Ceridan Corp. Errol Davis Jr.: Board of Regents of the Univ. System of Georgia E. Isdell: Coca-Cola Co. Mark Shannon: GM Corp. http://investing.businessweek.com/business...oard.asp?ric=GM 13 people; 7 MUST GO,, get your programs here, programs here, can't tell a player without a program. Start calling your bookies now,,, put a yard down on your fav's. or at least a dime Missed that. We'd better pop some pop corn.. this is going to be entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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