Honda President: No Diesels for Large Cars

[Harley Lover]

Article excerpt:

Honda's Fukui says no to large-car diesels

 

Hans Greimel

April 3, 2009 - 1:09 pm ET

 

TOKYO -- Honda Motor Co. President Takeo Fukui said Honda is developing a hybrid drivetrain for large cars, abandoning plans to rely on clean diesels in that segment.

 

Fukui said Honda is developing a hybrid drivetrain for large cars. Its recent push into hybrids has centered on small vehicles, such as the Insight. Next year Honda is launching the CR-Z sporty hybrid and following that with a hybrid version of the Fit.

 

"We have to think about the balance between cost and effectiveness," Fukui said.

 

"For larger vehicles, we think we might have to change the hybrid system so as to improve their efficiency. R&d is working hard on this."

 

Fukui said Honda has abandoned clean diesel as the next-generation green drivetrain for big vehicles because it costs too much to clear emissions regulations in the United States and Japan.

 

"Even for larger-size vehicles, we think it's more realistic to think about hybrids," Fukui said. "Therefore, we have changed our thinking."

Edited April 3, 2009 by Harley Lover

[RichardJensen]

If it is true because Honda says it, was it true when Ford said it?

[TomServo92]

If it is true because Honda says it, was it true when Ford said it?

 

No. When Ford says something, they're always lying... :rolleyes:

[Deanh]

No. When Ford says something, they're always lying... :rolleyes:

come on guys...anyone saying anything from the Big Three is lying....one give-away...their lips are moving....

[Deanh]

Article excerpt:

flashback to TWO LONGWINDED conversations with BOTH Mhlm5 and Chucky...I told both of them Diesel was NOT the answer, that there were more viable alternatives...well, whaddaya know...seems Hondas head honcho TOTALLY agrees with my train of thought...so i guess HE must be wrong as well....

[jpd80]

There's a good reason why the EU delayed introducing tougher diesel NOX regs like the US has,

they 're giving manufacturers time to develop an economical solution that doesn't need urea injection.

 

To a manufacturer, alternatives like hybrid technology is more marketable and easier to deliver.

[RangerM]

There's a good reason why the EU delayed introducing tougher diesel NOX regs like the US has,

they 're giving manufacturers time to develop an economical solution that doesn't need urea injection.

 

To a manufacturer, alternatives like hybrid technology is more marketable and easier to deliver.

 

But isn't a diesel cheaper to produce?

[rkisler]

There's a good reason why the EU delayed introducing tougher diesel NOX regs like the US has,

they 're giving manufacturers time to develop an economical solution that doesn't need urea injection.

 

To a manufacturer, alternatives like hybrid technology is more marketable and easier to deliver.

 

Hi JPD.

 

Hmmm.

 

Hybrids are presently more marketable in the U.S. I agree.

 

But I'm not so sure I agree on "easier to deliver". Requires a lot of coordination between and among battery and motor(s) and transmission.

 

With Honda's cancellation of the diesel, I'm not sure what that says about their development of a catalyst that will produce ammonia on board to take the place of urea. I assume they'll keep developing it so they can get it patented.

 

Also interesting tidbit in the Honda comment is that they will need a new hybrid system for the larger cars. Their present "mild" hybrid is an integrated starter-generator which they call Integrated Motor Assist (IMA). Doesn't offer nearly the improvement that Ford's and Toyota's full hybrids offer. So they have to sort out what they want to do, but IMA is not the answer. Also, it's a dead end as far as being a plug-in as it can't power the car on battery only except in coast-down.

[jpd80]

Thanks Austin,

It looks like some of the major players are still ironing out their long term plans in terms of vehicle

objectives, perhaps the supplier chains and marketing men have a bigger say in the decision process.

 

I expect some manufacturers are struggling with the combination and "right sizing" hybrid elements

like gasoline/ electric motors/Battery. Getting the mix right in the eyes of the buyer is tricky since

most people don't know what they want, more perplexing is what buyers are prepared to pay.

 

Ford and GM have vehicles planned with outstanding economy but come with $40K-$50K price tags,

that's going to scare off a lot of buyers. Maybe manufacturers need to go back to the drawing board

and ask what the consumer is really asking for.

[PREMiERdrum]

Article excerpt:

 

And somewhere, mlhm dies a little bit inside.

[battyr]

There are many technical reasons why diesel is cheaper in Europe than the US. But simply it come down to marketing. The Europeans want to buy diesels and the American's won't pay the extra for it.

[mlhm5]

And somewhere, mlhm dies a little bit inside.

 

Now that diesel is cheaper than regular, Honda pulls out. I for one do not like hybrids because there is too much to go wrong and too expensive to fix. I don't think non dealerships can get parts or know how to work on them.

 

Now a PHEV may be a consideration.

[Extreme4x4]

Any halfway decent mechanic can work on a hybrid also. It is not rocket science.

 

Believe it or not, there are classes that mechanics take, to get them up to speed on new technologies. Much in the same way that doctors and teachers get additional classroom time, for new proceedures.

 

God you are dense.

[mlhm5]

Any halfway decent mechanic can work on a hybrid also. It is not rocket science.

 

Believe it or not, there are classes that mechanics take, to get them up to speed on new technologies. Much in the same way that doctors and teachers get additional classroom time, for new proceedures.

 

God you are dense.

 

Yeah, I am sure the local mechanic is going to pay $$$ to go to classes to learn how to work on a hybrid. Dealership mechanics might, but I would venture a guess most mechanics would pass the opportunity to work on them until they became a mainstay.

[RichardJensen]

Yeah, I am sure the local mechanic is going to pay $$$ to go to classes to learn how to work on a hybrid. Dealership mechanics might, but I would venture a guess most mechanics would pass the opportunity to work on them until they became a mainstay.

Are you kidding me?

 

If you're an independent mechanic, you are your business. What you know is what makes your business valuable. Therefore investing in hybrid classes means you can work on hybrids, which means more money in your bank account.

 

Of course, some mechanics will take the old "I'm going to replace head gaskets on 3.8L Ford engines until I retire" route, but believe it or not many mechanics view education as a key to increasing their value, hence their take home pay.

 

I wouldn't worry about independent mechanics not being able to service a hybrid, as they certainly would have to get certified to work on those fiddly urea after-treatment systems too.

[RichardJensen]

There are many technical reasons why diesel is cheaper in Europe than the US. But simply it come down to marketing. The Europeans want to buy diesels and the American's won't pay the extra for it.

Wrong.

 

One of the Econetic Fiesta trims spews out about as much NOx per mile as a 5.4L equipped E150.

 

That, battyr, is not a difference in -marketing-.