TomServo92 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Link Careful reading of the patent application shows that it focuses on the intake/exhaust layout and valvetrain configuration. The text indicates that the technology could be applied to either gasoline or diesel engines. What we're probably looking at here is the layout of Ford's new Scorpion diesel V-8, which will replace the Navistar engines used in its Super-Duty trucks. Ford is unlikely to put such an engine in its cars anytime soon, instead focusing on smaller EcoBoost four and six-cylinder engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versa-Tech Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Good ol' Matt/P71 miseducating the sheep over at autoblog as usual Matt12:43pm (4/05/2009) This may be the end of boat anchor V8s from Ford... Matt1:34pm (4/05/2009) Hmmm.....let's see. Ford 4.6 V8: ~300-315HP Ford 5.4 V8: ~310-320HP Hyundai 4.6 V8: ~375HP Matt1:36pm (4/05/2009) Yeah...GM's 6.0 OHV V8 puts out the same power and mileage as Ford's 3.5 V6 :finger: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Good ol' Matt/P71 miseducating the sheep over at autoblog as usual Why even bother posting his stupidity here? He was banned her for a reason and I don't need to be reminded of how much an idiot he is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Ford may not have any intension of building all the engine configurations as described in the patent. If they patent it, then anyone who wants to build it, will have to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 4-valve push-rod? The super-Hemi diesel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 As was mentioned, this is the 6.7L Scorpion diesel. Turbo's in the vee with the reversed flow. You can tell who can't read, the ones who think it's a new gas engine. That includes "you know who". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 4-valve push-rod? The super-Hemi diesel? 6.0/6.4L are 4 valve pushrod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versa-Tech Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Why even bother posting his stupidity here? He was banned her for a reason and I don't need to be reminded of how much an idiot he is I find his idiocy comical :yup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 (edited) Ahhhh a classic. Peter Graves accidentally creates gigantic grasshoppers and a two-star general has the authority to order a nuclear strike on a US city........................ I had thought Ford was mightily displeased with Navistar's 4 valve pushrod design for the 6.0/6.4 PSDs. Edited April 5, 2009 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Ahhhh a classic. Peter Graves accidentally creates gigantic grasshoppers and a two-star general has the authority to order a nuclear strike on a US city........................ I had thought Ford was mightily displeased with Navistar's 4 valve pushrod design for the 6.0/6.4 PSDs. I think not enough head bolts was the bigger problem. If I remember correctly the 6.4 has the same count just a larger diameter. If you check out the diesel mags anyone that "builds" a 6.0 uses ARP head studs.When I was still at Flandreau we had a early 6.0 that broke it's crankshaft. I called Ford and told them what we suspected. The guy from Ford said "the crank BROKE?!?!" "I'll call you right back." About 30 minutes later he called back,"we're sending you a new engine off the line. DO NOT open that motor up. Send it directly to International." Last I heard about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I think not enough head bolts was the bigger problem. If I remember correctly the 6.4 has the same count just a larger diameter. I thought they went from 5 bolts per cylinder to 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 When I was still at Flandreau You were in Flandreau? Shoot. You can tell where I spent 4 years of my life based on my sig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) I know this is a stupid question, but why not 4-valve pushrod engines that burn gasoline? Especially when EcoBoost works that torque curve. Is OHC cheaper? Edited April 6, 2009 by Edstock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versa-Tech Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I know this is a stupid question, but why not 4-valve pushrod engines that burn gasoline? Especially when EcoBoost works that torque curve. Is OHC cheaper? 4-valve pushrods heads are way more expensive, less efficient and less reliable than DOHC at higher RPMs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 4-valve pushrods heads are way more expensive, less efficient and less reliable than DOHC at higher RPMs. Not to argue, but the point of EcoBoost is to get the torque curve as flat as possible from around 1,500 rpm to 2,000 rpm, so that trying for 5,000-7,000 rpm is not necessary, so pushrod reliability is not a limiting factor. Less efficient? How so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Good ol' Matt/P71 miseducating the sheep over at autoblog as usual That's odd. Someone was stating for a fact he was banned at autoblog. Guess it was another clueless statement, as usual. Anyway, nice to see plans for an EB V8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Anyway, nice to see plans for an EB V8. As was mentioned in the original posting, this is likely in reference to the new Scorpion diesel, not a EB V8. Would be nice though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) This has to be truck related, I it see that fitting under a car hood anytime soon: Edited April 6, 2009 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versa-Tech Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Not to argue, but the point of EcoBoost is to get the torque curve as flat as possible from around 1,500 rpm to 2,000 rpm, so that trying for 5,000-7,000 rpm is not necessary, so pushrod reliability is not a limiting factor. Less efficient? How so? It requires more energy to actuate the valves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) I think timing at higher RPMs used to be an issue, but less so with modern pushrod engines (if memory serves, there was an issue with the pushrod flexing, which was a minor problem at lower RPMs, but more pronounced at higher RPMs--again, if memory serves, stronger pushrods have reduced that problem). Edited April 6, 2009 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I know this is a stupid question, but why not 4-valve pushrod engines that burn gasoline? Especially when EcoBoost works that torque curve. Is OHC cheaper? I don't know. 4 CAMs and a long timing chain vs. 1 CAM an Pushrods? Doesn't this engine get cylinder deactivation. I would think Pushrods might make cylinder deactivation easier to package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versa-Tech Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 (edited) I think timing at higher RPMs used to be an issue, but less so with modern pushrod engines (if memory serves, there was an issue with the pushrod flexing, which was a minor problem at lower RPMs, but more pronounced at higher RPMs--again, if memory serves, stronger pushrods have reduced that problem). It is true that stronger pushrods have reduced pushrod flexing in 2-Valve motors. However, 4-valve motors have twice the valvesprings and therefore twice the pressure on the pushrods. Just ask the guys over at Arao Engineering. Their proprietary 4-valve OHC design uses patented pushrods made from a ceramic composite pressed into an alloy liner. They're the most expensive parts on the entire valvetrain. I believe they cost something like $2500 for a set. Obviously the costs outweigh the benefits for a mass produced vehicles , so 4-valve OHV heads are not an option on Gasoline engines. EDIT: Typo Edited April 7, 2009 by Versa-Tech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 It is true that stronger pushrods have reduced pushrod flexing in 2-Valve motors. However, 4-valve motors have twice the valvesprings and therefore twice the pressure on the pushrods. Just ask the guys over at Arao Engineering. Their proprietary 4-valve OHC design uses patented pushrods made from a ceramic composite pressed into an alloy liner. They're the most expensive parts on the entire valvetrain. I believe they cost something like $2500 for a set. Obviously the costs outweigh the benefits for a mass produced vehicles , so 4-valve OHC heads are not an option on Gasoline engines. Didn't someone develop 4-valve heads for the 5.0L back in '90s? I remember seeing pics of them in MM&FF magazine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Their proprietary 4-valve OHC design uses patented pushrods OHC stands for Over Head Cam So, there's an overhead cam deaign that uses pushrods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versa-Tech Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 OHC stands for Over Head Cam So, there's an overhead cam deaign that uses pushrods? You know what I meant damnit :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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