TomServo92 Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Link Another day, another GM brand death notice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 OUCH,, so until it's official.... According to a report from InsideLine, General Motors could axe Pontiac as early as this Monday. Although IL isn't citing its source within GM, it did contact the General's PR man, Tom Wilkinson, who said, "There's nothing I can share with you at this time... Officially, nothing has changed with Pontiac's niche-brand status, until you hear differently." Not very clear, but not particularly positive either. This is a normal rebuttal until their ready to release the info. Thanks Tom, This could still mean the Pontiac will be a niche like a corvette within the Chevy family, like it's been for 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHV 16V Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I wonder if there's a deeper meaning here... Take a ride with me for a second... The dealership grouping is supposed to be Buick-Pontiac-GMC. If this is true and Pontiac is toast, one look at the numbers says Buick & GMC don't have the volume to sustain on their own. So... I wonder if Buick has been sold to the Chinese, (SAIC I believe?), then killing Pontiac was an easier choice and it also means GMC is toast as well. With Hummer all but sold, Saab already bankrupt, that leaves Saturn with a deal supposedly in the works. They can now combine Chevy & Caddy, cut more dealerships out... Just me speculating out loud.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I wonder if there's a deeper meaning here... Take a ride with me for a second... The dealership grouping is supposed to be Buick-Pontiac-GMC. If this is true and Pontiac is toast, one look at the numbers says Buick & GMC don't have the volume to sustain on their own. So... I wonder if Buick has been sold to the Chinese, (SAIC I believe?), then killing Pontiac was an easier choice and it also means GMC is toast as well. With Hummer all but sold, Saab already bankrupt, that leaves Saturn with a deal supposedly in the works. They can now combine Chevy & Caddy, cut more dealerships out... Just me speculating out loud.... Not bad OHV, but Saturn? IMO, No, that's just a few dealers hoping to save something, but they won't get backing to purchase the plants and employ people and continue to purchase parts from suppliers. Smoke screen of a few die-hards grasping for a way to save it...... shame too. Any word yet on WHO is purchasing Hummer? THAT is so small hopefully they will get Pontiac thrown in for free with the purchase. Buy one get one. Great time to close out brands, and not go thru another Oldsmobile again. To me a GMC is like a F-series Platinum. Why not just sell it as a HIGH CLASS Chevy truck which it actually is, out of a Chevy store? Now for Buick, I did like what you thought on that.. that just might play out.. I keep seeing the eventual dismantling of a great America story and at the same time, a GREAT setback to the American middle class. If you think it will be OK, take a look at England and see how things are with hardly any manufacturing on the home front. This selling off of brands,, Imagine if this was Ford and NOT GM we are seeing here, could Ford just sell Lincoln and or Mercury, and not have anything to do with it and the vehicles still be made? Wonder what Vegas is giving on the odds for all of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Not bad OHV, but Saturn? IMO, No, that's just a few dealers hoping to save something, but they won't get backing to purchase the plants and employ people and continue to purchase parts from suppliers. Smoke screen of a few die-hards grasping for a way to save it...... shame too. Remember: Saturn dealers don't have franchise agreements with GM, they have them with a seperate, third-party company, which is now owned by some of the larger retailers. I'm nearly positive GM will 'give' the Saturn name to the dealers, who have said they want to become a boutique of import models. I don't think Saturn is a big part of GM's headache, I look for a final agreement soon. I agree that Buick will most likely be sold off to the Chinese. After the last viability plan wasn't 'enough' according to Obama and the ATF (which included keeping Chevy - Buick - GMC - Cadilliac and a niche Pontiac), I think we'll see them go down to just Chevrolet and Cadilliac. The times, they are a'changin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHV 16V Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 ...I keep seeing the eventual dismantling of a great America story and at the same time, a GREAT setback to the American middle class. If you think it will be OK, take a look at England and see how things are with hardly any manufacturing on the home front. I couldn't agree with you more. It's sad yet utterly ridiculous. For my real thoughts, check out my post in the "GM Debacle" thread. Nick let it go, but I promised to behave after that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 I couldn't agree with you more. It's sad yet utterly ridiculous. For my real thoughts, check out my post in the "GM Debacle" thread. Nick let it go, but I promised to behave after that... Monkey see Monkey do. Yea, good laugh.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Theres a couple hundred thousands sales open to be taken up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calypsocoral Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 (edited) Theres a couple hundred thousands sales open to be taken up. Not if the recession keeps strrrrrreeeeeeeeetching out over the next few years, as it likely will... Edited April 24, 2009 by calypsocoral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 This will only be the start. GM is still pumping out vehicles at last years rate...and buyers aren't shopping, at last years rate. Something has got to give. For GM, it'll probably cost them 2-3 brands. In other words (if someone here wished to take the time and do the math), but if they are forecasting sales at 10MIL rate, what percentage did GM have last year when the sales were at 15-16-17MIL, and couple that with these years sales forecast. I'm guessing Saturn and Buick will probably be the other 2 brands. Hummer, to me, is already dead... Then my next concern is, GM doesn't have much of a consistent platform strategy. As in, they counted on ONE platform of a specific vehicle (such as the malibu, aura, G6) and made due spreading that to different brands. Take out the different brands, and now you have a much harder business case to make that ONE platform viable. Ford on the other hand, has been integrating platform families, consolidating, and stretching them in every form from a Taurus, to a Flex, to an Explorer. And while we are at it, I'm HOPING that some other smaller automakers (that have nothing special to offer), just fold up and leave. These include Suzuki, Mitsubishi, Etc. We have toooooo many vehicle options, not enough buyers...the weakest ones will have to leave. This will last much longer than people expect... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHV 16V Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Wanna hear something funny? The local GM plant stated they have at least a 177-day supply of Cobalts and a 600-plus day supply of pontiac G5s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSFan00 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Wanna hear something funny? The local GM plant stated they have at least a 177-day supply of Cobalts and a 600-plus day supply of pontiac G5s. Yeah, but what is that total? 5,000 G5's? It may not be the total number that is so terrible, but the fact that no one wants to buy this car, period. It's not that terrible a vehicle, either. Maybe if GM announces the closure of Pontiac on Monday, they can just give these cars to the dealers as a going-away present! Or, they could simply change a few decals on them and claim they're limited-edition final-year 2011's, and make one a pace car @ some Nascar race. Bam, problem solved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Not if the recession keeps strrrrrreeeeeeeeetching out over the next few years, as it likely will... Eh, I'm sure it's not going to be rosy for a few years, but I doubt we'll continue to see any major declines past the end of this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpc655 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 I wonder if there's a deeper meaning here... Take a ride with me for a second... The dealership grouping is supposed to be Buick-Pontiac-GMC. If this is true and Pontiac is toast, one look at the numbers says Buick & GMC don't have the volume to sustain on their own. So... I wonder if Buick has been sold to the Chinese, (SAIC I believe?), then killing Pontiac was an easier choice and it also means GMC is toast as well. With Hummer all but sold, Saab already bankrupt, that leaves Saturn with a deal supposedly in the works. They can now combine Chevy & Caddy, cut more dealerships out... Just me speculating out loud.... Buick might become a china only brand, but i don't see it being sold. it generates solid numbers (in china) USA will be shrunk down to chevy & caddy..maybe keep GMC. but that dealer network will be tough as a standalone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Suzuki is ALREADY a part of GM, reselling GM owned Daewoo produced vehicles in the US under a different brand name. I'm continually amazed that Mitsubishi can still justify their existence in the US market. Their sales are litterally a drop in the bucket. Isuzu is in the process of leaving. In the US, the major players are... Toyota Honda Nissan Mazda The Big 2.5 with all their domestic brands Mercedes, BMW, Audi, VW Then, there are the bit players Mitsubishi at the top of that list Saab Volvo (I can't consider them a major anymore) Suzuki What little is left of Isuzu Smart Aside from the occassional Exotic, what else is there? Who do you want to see leave? Aside from Mitsu and Suzuki, which make up such a small portion of the overall market as to not affect it, Saab, which is in bankruptcy, Volvo which is for sale, what's left? The handful of Smart's that are soon to be crushed in accidents or the last few rebadged GM vehicles that were being sold as ISuzus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Suzuki is ALREADY a part of GM, reselling GM owned Daewoo produced vehicles in the US under a different brand name. I'm continually amazed that Mitsubishi can still justify their existence in the US market. Their sales are litterally a drop in the bucket. Isuzu is in the process of leaving. In the US, the major players are... Toyota Honda Nissan Mazda The Big 2.5 with all their domestic brands Mercedes, BMW, Audi, VW Then, there are the bit players Mitsubishi at the top of that list Saab Volvo (I can't consider them a major anymore) Suzuki What little is left of Isuzu Smart Aside from the occassional Exotic, what else is there? Who do you want to see leave? Aside from Mitsu and Suzuki, which make up such a small portion of the overall market as to not affect it, Saab, which is in bankruptcy, Volvo which is for sale, what's left? The handful of Smart's that are soon to be crushed in accidents or the last few rebadged GM vehicles that were being sold as ISuzus? You left out the Koreans. Hyundai is larger than Mazda now by a long shot. Why do they always seem to be forgotten on lists like this? I'm guilty of it too. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 In the US, the major players are... Toyota Honda Nissan Mazda Mercedes, BMW, Audi, VW Then, there are the bit players Mitsubishi at the top of that list Saab Volvo (I can't consider them a major anymore) Suzuki What little is left of Isuzu Smart Who do you want to see leave? All the RED ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixt9coug Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 2 for 1 G8 GT's! woot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 (edited) It looks like now it is official Pontiac is gone forever... www.cnn.com "Breaking News Banner at the top" http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/24/autos/pont...sion=2009042414 Edited April 24, 2009 by 2005Explorer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted April 24, 2009 Author Share Posted April 24, 2009 It looks like now it is official Pontiac is gone forever... www.cnn.com "Breaking News Banner at the top" http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/24/autos/pont...sion=2009042414 Still not "official" yet: An official announcement is expected Monday. GM spokesman Jim Hopson declined to comment on Pontiac's fate, saying the automaker has no announcements to make at this time. It's the same line we've been hearing. The death watch continues.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 I wonder if there's a deeper meaning here... Take a ride with me for a second... The dealership grouping is supposed to be Buick-Pontiac-GMC. If this is true and Pontiac is toast, one look at the numbers says Buick & GMC don't have the volume to sustain on their own. So... I wonder if Buick has been sold to the Chinese, (SAIC I believe?), then killing Pontiac was an easier choice and it also means GMC is toast as well. With Hummer all but sold, Saab already bankrupt, that leaves Saturn with a deal supposedly in the works. They can now combine Chevy & Caddy, cut more dealerships out... Just me speculating out loud.... very plausible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 And the GM flip-flop-flip-flop continues....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
156n3rd Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 POntiac's death should come as no surpise, but I thought Satrun would die from the beginning of this mess. There are quite a few of imported models in that group as it is. The G5 was a very bad joke, just as ever Cavalier-clone with a Ponton name has ever been. And let's face it, the Cavalier-Cobalts have never been real precision machines.Those 2.2 engines sound like buzz-saws and Chevy never did build a decent 4-banger anyway. Someone mentioned Mitsubishi. I do not agre that they should leave the market. Their engines are a few of the best around and if Chevy had something as good as those things might have been better. GM has held onto their old ways too long. We have to hope their bankruptcy doesn't touvh Ford's momentum of keeping solidly afloat. Although I still kling to the idea that my PTCRuiser is one of the best built cars EVER, if Fiat doesn't take them they also will be gone. Unless someone else wants to torture themselves with a bad investment. Imagine if car fans could buy that company and run it right! Ah, maybe not. :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 POntiac's death should come as no surpise, but I thought Satrun would die from the beginning of this mess. There are quite a few of imported models in that group as it is. The G5 was a very bad joke, just as ever Cavalier-clone with a Ponton name has ever been. And let's face it, the Cavalier-Cobalts have never been real precision machines.Those 2.2 engines sound like buzz-saws and Chevy never did build a decent 4-banger anyway. Someone mentioned Mitsubishi. I do not agre that they should leave the market. Their engines are a few of the best around and if Chevy had something as good as those things might have been better. GM has held onto their old ways too long. We have to hope their bankruptcy doesn't touvh Ford's momentum of keeping solidly afloat. Although I still kling to the idea that my PTCRuiser is one of the best built cars EVER, if Fiat doesn't take them they also will be gone. Unless someone else wants to torture themselves with a bad investment. Imagine if car fans could buy that company and run it right! Ah, maybe not. :unsure: Actually... who the hell really understands all this. I should wait for the novel to come out. Still, Ford had better damn well learn a lesson from all this and that is, a near Death guarantees you their is NO MORE SECOND CHANCE. Not in America anymore. I had one of those IRON-DUKE's in the early 80's, yea sweet little engine until about 3 years into it, after the warranties were up, did the blocks start to crack. I think every damn one of the blocks would crack. Bad thing... GM new it would happen. Took a civil suit for them to institute the double-secret warranty on them. Daimler may have raped Chrysler, and the management of Chrysler might talk the talk of conquest sales, but all they had were returning buyers willing to accept the known faults of the company. For how long does a company internalize that it's damn well good enough to be #3 on everything you do for 20 years going on 40? As much as I like both GM and Chrysler for what they were, it's past time things to change. I bid them a fond ado, I will look back on them with nostalgia. I empathize for the employee's and the retirees who gave their all for the company, but management, ... management needs to commit Hari-Kari. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Suzuki doesnt sell the Deawoo cars anymore, the Reno and Forenza are dropped for 09. But, they are not doing so well, either. The SX4 car is filling up lots as the Forenzas did. Mitsu is propped up by their conglomorate parent company, and Japan. GM fanatics will cry and blame the Gov't, but it's GM's fault for thinking the status quo would last and last. Pontiac died in 1979, when the last 400 ci Trans Am was built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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