joihan777 Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Hey hey, I'm wondering if Ford is working on a Taurus/ Flex Hybrid? With the succesful implemenation of a hybrid powertrain in the Fusion, I'm wondering what powertrain would a Taurus/ Flex Hybrid utilize? Would an EB I-4 work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Both, 3rd gen is said to compley to V6s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 An Atkinson cycle engine like the ones used in the other Ford hybrids would be cheaper. Ford might want to use the same size electric motors in the Flex hybrid as the Fusion hybrid, so they would need the extra power of a V-6. On the other hand, if they want the best fuel efficiency, they would use a bigger battery, bigger electric motors and a 1.6L or smaller EB 4 cylinder. It would also be a bit more expensive. They may need bigger electric motors anyway because they have to balance the torque of the engine to control the E-cvt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 I understand that Ford is looking at many hybrids alternatives. They still need to make a major cost reductions. I think the system depends on what happens to the cost of future batteries and any advancements they make in the next couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 (edited) An Atkinson cycle engine like the ones used in the other Ford hybrids would be cheaper. Ford might want to use the same size electric motors in the Flex hybrid as the Fusion hybrid, so they would need the extra power of a V-6. On the other hand, if they want the best fuel efficiency, they would use a bigger battery, bigger electric motors and a 1.6L or smaller EB 4 cylinder. It would also be a bit more expensive. They may need bigger electric motors anyway because they have to balance the torque of the engine to control the E-cvt. IIRC, Ford switched from V6 hybrid program to I-4 EB hybrid. If Taurus and Flex go hybrid, I expect it would be with a 2.0 EB hybrid. That way they don't need a bigger electric motor, the Ecoboost engine provides geometric power so on light throttle it's pretty efficient. Much like you have a base 2.5 Fusion and 2.5 Fusion Hybrid, so you would have a base I-4 EB Taurus/Flex and I-4 EB Hybrid Taurus/Flex. I could see all those above vehicles having an interesting market response. Edited May 23, 2009 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ds91776 Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I do believe that we will see the 2011 Explorer's powertrains in the Taurus, Edge, and Flex very soon. This means that the base 3.5V6 will be replaced by a either a 2.0 EB-I4 or 2.5 EB-I4 that should make 260-275 hp. The upgrade engine will be the 3.5 EB-V6. I also would not be surprised to see on a future Edge (and less likely on the Taurus) a 1.6 EB-I4 making 200 hp, with the EB 2.0/2.5 I4 as the updgrade or middle-grade engine. I would expect that a hybrid system could and should be added to the 1.6 EB-I4 and 2.0 EB/2.5 EB engines. There really is no reason that Ford could not add hybrid versions to most of its products. Fiesta: I doubt a hybrid will makes sense for a while...they could EB a 1.0I4 though. Focus: They should hybridize the base engine (a 150 hp version of the 1.6I4?) Fusion: Hybrid version of the base 2.5 or EB 1.6 Taurus: Hybrid version of the EB 2.5 or EB 1.6 Mustang: I think a hybrid EB 2.5 could be cool, the merging of 21st century tech with classic American cool B-MAX (Faction?): Same as Fiesta Focus C-MAX ?: could use same system as Focus hybrid Escape: same as Fusion Edge: Same as Fusion or Taurus Explorer: Same as Taurus Flex: Same as Taurus Expedition: Waste of time. Ranger: Very possible...in EB2.5 I4...would sure transform what Truck could get in MPGs! F-150: Probably a waste of time at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Isn't there suppose to be a V6 Hybrid, I believe with the 3.0L possibly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I think the V6 hybrid program was shelved.... The Edge/MKX are allegedly next in line for the hybrid treatment, or at least they were a couple years ago. That may have been initially as V6 hybrids, but with the EcoBoost system, it may well be that they're being repackaged as turbo 4 hybrids instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I think the V6 hybrid program was shelved.... The Edge/MKX are allegedly next in line for the hybrid treatment, or at least they were a couple years ago. That may have been initially as V6 hybrids, but with the EcoBoost system, it may well be that they're being repackaged as turbo 4 hybrids instead. I wonder, if the Flex gets 24 mpg hwy now, could the I-4 EB get that up near 29-30 mpg? That would be a staggering increase, especially if the performance was similar to the regular 3.5 V6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I think the V6 hybrid program was shelved.... The Edge/MKX are allegedly next in line for the hybrid treatment, or at least they were a couple years ago. That may have been initially as V6 hybrids, but with the EcoBoost system, it may well be that they're being repackaged as turbo 4 hybrids instead. Given the size of the vehicles in question, I'd think the I4-EB would be the better choice than hybrid. I used to own a Passat with a 1.8L turbo that got great MPG on the hwy (not so much city, mostly because my wife has a lead foot). Can't imagine saddling it with several hundred pounds of battery would have made it that much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 T turbo I-4 Hybrid I would imagine would be a very expensive powertrain to manufacture. As it is, adding turbos is probably a good chunk of change, most of that probably recouped because it's less material/valves etc over the 6 cylinder version, but then add a Hybrid onto the Turbo4, and I would say it starts adding up. I dont see the reason for a Hybrid V6. Lexus has tried it and I dont really see any performance or much of a fuel economy gain. Firs they went with the "oh it'll save fuel" (like luxury buyers care), then when they say it wasn't working they went with "Well we want a performance hybrid" (and they aren't getting much performance out of it), now their spin is "Well, want to offer the best technology to performance equation"...Uh...yeah... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsonlu Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 T turbo I-4 Hybrid I would imagine would be a very expensive powertrain to manufacture. As it is, adding turbos is probably a good chunk of change, most of that probably recouped because it's less material/valves etc over the 6 cylinder version, but then add a Hybrid onto the Turbo4, and I would say it starts adding up. I dont see the reason for a Hybrid V6. Lexus has tried it and I dont really see any performance or much of a fuel economy gain. Firs they went with the "oh it'll save fuel" (like luxury buyers care), then when they say it wasn't working they went with "Well we want a performance hybrid" (and they aren't getting much performance out of it), now their spin is "Well, want to offer the best technology to performance equation"...Uh...yeah... Indeed, the Honda Accord Hybrid was a V6, and it didn't sell well. Hybrids still have to be able to deliver the gas savings, and if they don't, they won't sell. However, that's a reason why EcoBoost I4 Hybrid might work. It should provide even more gas savings over the current Fusion/Milan hybrids, while at the same time provide additional performance. The Accord Hybrid failed because it didn't deliver on gas savings. An EcoBoost Fusion Hybrid that gets 50 MPG should be able to eat the Prius for lunch even if it is substantially more expensive. I think, at the time that EcoBoost was announced, Ford claimed (which it is no longer claiming) that the cost of EcoBoost over conventional engines would be about $700. If that $700 price differential holds, it's chump change in comparison to the additional gas savings and performance bonus, and I'd say that anything that's less than about $1,500 or so would work. Certainly if I had a choice between a "regular" Fusion Hybrid at 41/36 MPG (which I drive and love so far) and paying about $1,000 more for an EcoBoost Fusion Hybrid at, say, 50/45, I'd take the EcoBoost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Direct Injection and Turbocharging is expensive and it will be interesting to see whether Ford's mantra of technology to the masses holds up over time, maybe the step up in CAFE makes it imperative now..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I think, at the time that EcoBoost was announced, Ford claimed (which it is no longer claiming) that the cost of EcoBoost over conventional engines would be about $700. If that $700 price differential holds, it's chump change in comparison to the additional gas savings and performance bonus, and I'd say that anything that's less than about $1,500 or so would work. Certainly if I had a choice between a "regular" Fusion Hybrid at 41/36 MPG (which I drive and love so far) and paying about $1,000 more for an EcoBoost Fusion Hybrid at, say, 50/45, I'd take the EcoBoost. The true price difference between an EcoBoost and a regular engine may be $700, but the necessary added equipment, such as AWD, power steering (if not already equipped), and perhaps some other items, may lead to the increased cost over that $700 figure. I don't know if that's true or not, I'm just throwing it out there.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 The true price difference between an EcoBoost and a regular engine may be $700, but the necessary added equipment, such as AWD, power steering (if not already equipped), and perhaps some other items, may lead to the increased cost over that $700 figure. I don't know if that's true or not, I'm just throwing it out there.... I wouldn't think an I4 Ecoboost hybrid would require AWD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I wouldn't think an I4 Ecoboost hybrid would require AWD. No, it won't. The I4 is geared toward economy. The V6, at least in it's current form, is not. It creates so much power and torque that it has to be installed in an AWD application because the FWD only transmission can't handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 (edited) I wouldn't think an I4 Ecoboost hybrid would require AWD. Sorry, I thought I had typed it in, but I meant in all applications we've seen so far (obviously, just the 3.5 EB), it required AWD, etc. because of the power they're putting out. Edited May 24, 2009 by rmc523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 The true price difference between an EcoBoost and a regular engine may be $700, but the necessary added equipment, such as AWD, power steering (if not already equipped), and perhaps some other items, may lead to the increased cost over that $700 figure. I don't know if that's true or not, I'm just throwing it out there.... No the problem with finding the true costs of Ecoboost engine is that its ONLY found on topend models of what its being installed in. Seriously, the Taurus Limited Starts at 31K and the SHO starts at 36K...Ford doesn't have the build and price out for the 10 Taurus yet, but I don't think the Limited is going to be lacking any of the options outside of 20in High performance tires and the Ecoboost engine the SHO comes with. I think that the cost per MPG improved vs V6 will be seen till the Ecoboost I4 engines come along, since the current V6 EB is more or less an Luxury option replacing a V8 engine in these said cars and well yea it gets decent MPG its not the huge improvement that you'll see if u had a EB I4 replacing a V6 in a product, like a 30 MPG Explorer with a 2.5L Ecoboost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 The true price difference between an EcoBoost and a regular engine may be $700, but the necessary added equipment, such as AWD, power steering (if not already equipped), and perhaps some other items, may lead to the increased cost over that $700 figure. I don't know if that's true or not, I'm just throwing it out there.... The 3.5L EB is designed to replace a V-8 in a luxury car. If Ford built a V-8 for the Taurus, the engine would not add a huge cost to the car, but Ford will add AWD, a beefed up transaxle, bigger wheels, a spoiler, racing stripes, special suspension tuning, the SHO name and add a lot to the price tag. If they put the same engine to the F-150 the price will be $700.00 plus what ever markup they want to add. Same thing with the 4 cylinder. Will the engine be a SVT option, or a base engine? Also a 4 cylinder EB that replaces a V-6 has 1 fewer turbo (If it replaces an EB V-6), 1 less exhaust manifolds, 2 less injectors, 2 less spark plugs, 8 less valves, shorter and simpler block and crank shaft and 2 fewer CAM shafts. Turbo are becoming a high volume, manufactured product. I can see most car coming standard with a turbo in the short-term future. They already are in Europes diesels. They will become cheaper. So will DI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Ford doesn't have the build and price out for the 10 Taurus yet Yes they do, it's just not on a public forum. Limited comes with 19" Chrome Clad wheels. 20" Premium Painted Luster Nickel is only available on the SHO, and it's an option. It comes standard with 19" Premium Painted Luster Nickel wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 (edited) Seriously, the Taurus Limited Starts at 31K and the SHO starts at 36K... Oh, and MSRP starts at: Limited: $33,020 SHO: $37,170 Not including $825 for Destination and Delivery. Edited May 25, 2009 by Pioneer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 No the problem with finding the true costs of Ecoboost engine is that its ONLY found on topend models of what its being installed in. Seriously, the Taurus Limited Starts at 31K and the SHO starts at 36K...Ford doesn't have the build and price out for the 10 Taurus yet, but I don't think the Limited is going to be lacking any of the options outside of 20in High performance tires and the Ecoboost engine the SHO comes with. I think that the cost per MPG improved vs V6 will be seen till the Ecoboost I4 engines come along, since the current V6 EB is more or less an Luxury option replacing a V8 engine in these said cars and well yea it gets decent MPG its not the huge improvement that you'll see if u had a EB I4 replacing a V6 in a product, like a 30 MPG Explorer with a 2.5L Ecoboost. IIRC, on Flex, EcoBoost will be available on both SEL and Limited models. The videos Autoblog and Jalopnik had featured SEL models, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 IIRC, on Flex, EcoBoost will be available on both SEL and Limited models. The videos Autoblog and Jalopnik had featured SEL models, anyway. Yes, it is available on both the SEL and Limited AWD models. Adds about $3,000 to the base price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Oh, and MSRP starts at: Limited: $33,020 SHO: $37,170 Not including $825 for Destination and Delivery. Where did you get your numbers from? I got mine from the 2010 Taurus Website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Where did you get your numbers from? I got mine from the 2010 Taurus Website I got mine from the dealers website. The price list was issued on April 6th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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