TomServo92 Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Link Interesting point: "We look forward to working with the Obama administration to ensure that the government's majority ownership of GM will not change the industry's competitive dynamics and that a level playing field will be maintained. " Ford should be offered loans if they want them, to keep a level and fair playing field. But it must be on the same terms as GM and/ or Chrysler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted June 1, 2009 Author Share Posted June 1, 2009 Interesting point: "We look forward to working with the Obama administration to ensure that the government's majority ownership of GM will not change the industry's competitive dynamics and that a level playing field will be maintained. " Ford should be offered loans if they want them, to keep a level and fair playing field. But it must be on the same terms as GM and/ or Chrysler. The only thing the government would accomplish by not maintaining a level playing field is driving another company into a goverment funded bankruptcy. The tin foil hat brigade ought have a field day with that one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFive Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 The ease at which GMs situation has occurred coins a new term............"McBankruptcy." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 The ease at which GMs situation has occurred coins a new term............"McBankruptcy." Bankruptcy is not punishment, it's an effective way to rid creditors - if you're smart. What did bankruptcy cost GM Vs The Government, Bondholders, Suppliers, Stockholders and employees? Answer: practically nothing, the new GM is sanitized, a reduced work force and retained brands account for 85% of the old GM's sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Bankruptcy is not punishment, it's an effective way to rid creditors - if you're smart. What did bankruptcy cost GM Vs The Government, Bondholders, Suppliers, Stockholders and employees? Answer: practically nothing, the new GM is sanitized, a reduced work force and retained brands account for 85% of the old GM's sales. It cost GM's owners everything, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 And it cost the US, Canadian, and Ontario governments tens of billions of dollars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford4v429 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 seeing as how they aparently are writing off the first 20 Billion, and loaning another 30, perhaps they should just give GIVE Ford 20B for a restructuring plan that actually is working...they threw 20 away for nothing, Ford threw away their own but for something worth throwing it at...repay Ford the same they write off for GM, sounds fair to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 (edited) seeing as how they aparently are writing off the first 20 Billion, and loaning another 30, perhaps they should just give GIVE Ford 20B for a restructuring plan that actually is working...they threw 20 away for nothing, Ford threw away their own but for something worth throwing it at...repay Ford the same they write off for GM, sounds fair to me Where does it say the government is writing of any money loaned to GM? They're not, other investors are falling on their swords, not the government. LINK GM statement yesterday showed consolidated debt in the new company of $17 billion, excluding liabilities such as a workers’ health-care trust, down from $54.4 billion in March. The filing put the new-entity loan total from the U.S. and Canadian government at as much as $65 billion. Edited June 2, 2009 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswhalen Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 What Ford is saying is, double speak. Vowing to work with Obama and hoping for a viable US market is what sounds good. The real message is, we are freeeeeee! Thank God we didn't sell our soul to socialism. We can make real cars! I personally know a bunch of people that won't buy a car from a gov't owned company. My local Ford Store's sales manager said he is seeing people who have never walked into a Ford dealership in their lives. They are saying, good for Ford, Ford is OK in my book. There are a lot of middle american people that will bond to Ford for toughing it out and not begging at the feet of a socialist that wants to give comrade Union worker the company. Good bye GM. The local Ford Store is hiring and their used car lot is jammed with trades. Accross the street the Cad Chev dealer's inventory barely fills the street row of the lot. I took my Mustang GT into Ford for an oil change and the showroom, lot and service department was buzzing. Two days later I took my DTS Cad accross the street and a great service manager told me he just got a 25% pay cut and wasn't sure if he would last another month. I said, go across the street, they are jamming. He said, I know! I bet Obama is mumbling under his breath about the one that got away. I expect tax incentives if you buy GM and an excise tax on Ford. Hey, tax the successful and give it to the losers. Since most of NASCAR fans are conservative, how long will Chevrolet get to provide cars? Can they make a Hybrid with 700 horse power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I personally know a bunch of people that won't buy a car from a gov't owned company. Add two more to that list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 (edited) Gotta say it is impossible to buy a car from Government Motors in Europe they have sold all the junk off to keep the American Leyland US afloat. +830 million Europeans won't buying an American Leyland in 2010. Edited June 2, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 (edited) Where does it say the government is writing of any money loaned to GM? That's not what the Prime Minsiter said I'm afraid: Harper said governments in Canada faced two options: participate in the restructuring or stand idly while the company was restructuring completely outside Canada. The prime minister said that second option was judged to be "too risky in the current fiscal climate." Without the Canadian financial support, GM production would have quickly left Canada, said Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty. Expectation of return on debt portion "Without Canadian money in the game, we would be out of the game," he said, adding that a GM departure from Ontario would have affected the province's parts suppliers, which employ about 45,000 Ontarians. Harper said the government is assuming it will be able to recoup the $1.3 billion it will hold in GM debt, but he said the government is not counting on getting a large amount back on its equity stake. The Canadian and Ontario governments will also get about $400 million in new GM preferred shares. "We are counting on significant return on the debt portion, but on the equity portion, we're assuming up front, we will be assuming that that’s a 100 per cent cost," said Harper. "Obviously, it will be something lesser than that in the long term, but we're not making any assumption of getting large amounts of money back." Canada, Ontario commit $10.5B to revamped GM Edited June 2, 2009 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truckwriter Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 There are a lot of middle american people that will bond to Ford for toughing it out and not begging at the feet of a socialist that wants to give comrade Union worker the company. Good bye GM. I'm having a hard time figuring out your argument... You own a recent-model Cadillac, but you hate the union workers who made it and you want the company to die? You're witnessing the complete collapse of the market economy brought about by 8 years of Republican greed and ineptitude, but you accuse Obama of being a socialist for trying to mop up Bush's mess and save some remnant of our once-great manufacturing base? The fact that you refer to socialism and communism in the same post without distinguishing between the two says a lot about where you're coming from. Would the collapse of GM and Chrysler really make you happy? Should Carter have let Chrysler fail back in 1980? Should Bush have let the airlines all fold after 9/11? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 The fact that you blame the current economy on Bush, just shows that you are doing exactly what you are accusing another of doing. Look in your own backyard, before you point fingers. You do realize that the current economic situation was decades in the making............ right?? Decades of Democrat (who started it), and Republican (who didn't fix it) presidents, who are all complicit. Nothing that has happened in the past, excuses what has happened in the last few months. All that does is transfer blame. Blame fixes nothing. Throwing Trillions of dollars, that we don't have, at a problem that you don't truly understand, also fixes nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Look in your own backyard, before you point fingers. It is time to stop pointing fingers! Fingerpointing gets us nowhere! [points] Steve! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 If Ford does want cash off the Government then is should be in the form of loans or cash for equity because that's the deal others are getting. There is no reason why GM and Chrysler shareholders should get a worse deal than Ford shareholders. Also as Ford is viable then they don't really NEED the cash. Otherwise why not give all car makers money including Toyota (who make cars in the US). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crownvicsparky Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 seeing as how they aparently are writing off the first 20 Billion, and loaning another 30, perhaps they should just give GIVE Ford 20B for a restructuring plan that actually is working...they threw 20 away for nothing, Ford threw away their own but for something worth throwing it at...repay Ford the same they write off for GM, sounds fair to me He does make a very good point.... I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustangman9494 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 The fact that you blame the current economy on Bush, just shows that you are doing exactly what you are accusing another of doing. Look in your own backyard, before you point fingers. You do realize that the current economic situation was decades in the making............ right?? Decades of Democrat (who started it), and Republican (who didn't fix it) presidents, who are all complicit. Nothing that has happened in the past, excuses what has happened in the last few months. All that does is transfer blame. Blame fixes nothing. Throwing Trillions of dollars, that we don't have, at a problem that you don't truly understand, also fixes nothing. same old blame ot on the democrats mindspeak form where else barry goldwaterville sheesh i suppose you still hate fdr for the income tax legislation!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 First off, I didn't state that I "hated" anyone. Frankly, I "hate" that word, and do not allow my son to use it. Second, I blamed both sides. I guess you didn't see that. Third, Jimmy Carter started the legislative push to get more people, who really could not afford to buy homes, to be able to. This is not my opinion, it is fact. Finally, it would not matter if Obama was in the Whitehouse, or McCain, or Donald Duck. If they did what is happening now, I would be equally displeased with them. Frankly, I think Donald Duck could mess things up less. BTW, Hooked on Phonics, is your friend. When people have to decipher your post, to decide what you are trying to say.............. by adding periods, capitals, and proper spelling.............. it is much easier to just, out and out, completely discount what you are trying to say. I know I am not perfect in that regard, but at least I try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packardbob Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 First off, I didn't state that I "hated" anyone. Frankly, I "hate" that word, and do not allow my son to use it. Second, I blamed both sides. I guess you didn't see that. Third, Jimmy Carter started the legislative push to get more people, who really could not afford to buy homes, to be able to. This is not my opinion, it is fact. Finally, it would not matter if Obama was in the Whitehouse, or McCain, or Donald Duck. If they did what is happening now, I would be equally displeased with them. Frankly, I think Donald Duck could mess things up less. BTW, Hooked on Phonics, is your friend. When people have to decipher your post, to decide what you are trying to say.............. by adding periods, capitals, and proper spelling.............. it is much easier to just, out and out, completely discount what you are trying to say. I know I am not perfect in that regard, but at least I try. Donald Duck would have stopped it, he would have kicked some serious a** as president. But please don't drag Donald Duck in to politics, he is so much better than that. As for Ford and the government and the governments (our) money, I do believe Ford should stay as far away from it as they can. If the government ever needs anything from Ford or wants Ford to do something they don't want to do, I believe money lent could be used as leverage against Ford to get them to do what the government wants them to. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 It is time to stop pointing fingers! Fingerpointing gets us nowhere! [points] Steve! When you point a finger at someone....you have three fingers pointing back at you.... :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 When you point a finger at someone....you have three fingers pointing back at you.... :shades: Unless you're a high school woodshop teacher. In that case, the actual number of fingers may vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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