Full Size Sedans Could Shrink

[ausrutherford]

Maybe this opens up a space for Falcon platform based CV and TC replacements.

 

BINGO!

[mustang_sallad]

BINGO!

 

 

I agree. With the Taurus as it is, there is absolutely no room for a full size above it. Isn't the trunk in the new Taurus basically the same size as the CV? This has been the case since the 500 came out. I think the Taurus will be too big to be really mainstream. It would get better sales if it were downsized just a little bit. Then working on a true CV replacement would actually make sense.

[NickF1011]

I agree. With the Taurus as it is, there is absolutely no room for a full size above it. Isn't the trunk in the new Taurus basically the same size as the CV? This has been the case since the 500 came out. I think the Taurus will be too big to be really mainstream. It would get better sales if it were downsized just a little bit. Then working on a true CV replacement would actually make sense.

 

I don't think it's a matter of size as much as it is a matter of personality. Ford could very well have two large cars in their lineup, even if the dimensions are very similar, if they offer distinctively different personalities. I think many of the people who would be drawn to a Falcon wouldn't necessarily be drawn to a Taurus and vice versa, regardless of their size similarities.

[matthewq4b]

I agree. With the Taurus as it is, there is absolutely no room for a full size above it. Isn't the trunk in the new Taurus basically the same size as the CV? This has been the case since the 500 came out. I think the Taurus will be too big to be really mainstream. It would get better sales if it were downsized just a little bit. Then working on a true CV replacement would actually make sense.

 

 

What makes sence is keeping the D3 Taurus around till the CV TC replacement is ready then move it down to the CD size platform and drop the Fusion name plate all together. That is what makes sence.

 

 

Matthew

[rmc523]

What makes sence is keeping the D3 Taurus around till the CV TC replacement is ready then move it down to the CD size platform and drop the Fusion name plate all together. That is what makes sence.

 

 

Matthew

 

I don't see Ford dropping the Fusion nameplate, as they've spent all the time and money developing it into a known, reliable, efficient, etc. name that people know and now recognize. Dropping that name now, especially after the Five Hundred/Freestyle > Taurus/Taurus X situation wouldn't go over well, IMO.

[dante hicks]

What makes sence is keeping the D3 Taurus around till the CV TC replacement is ready then move it down to the CD size platform and drop the Fusion name plate all together. That is what makes sence.

 

 

Matthew

 

"Fusion" is the hot word in the auto media. While it doesn't have the history of "Taurus," it is gaining credibility. In a couple of years, Fusion may not be a name plate you'd want to drop.

[rmc523]

"Fusion" is the hot word in the auto media. While it doesn't have the history of "Taurus," it is gaining credibility. In a couple of years, Fusion may not be a name plate you'd want to drop.

 

I think it already is. You can't build a good reputation for a vehicle (nameplate) if you drop the name after 6 years (or however many it'll be when we're talking about) on the market. Fusion is winning over customers and people are beginning to (if not already) know what it is....no reason to drop it. If my area's any indication, plenty of people know what the Fusion is.

[NickF1011]

What makes sence is keeping the D3 Taurus around till the CV TC replacement is ready then move it down to the CD size platform and drop the Fusion name plate all together. That is what makes sence.

 

 

Matthew

 

Yeah, Ford hasn't confused the customer enough already. Let's move vehicles from size class to size class again to make up for it. :rolleyes:

[PREMiERdrum]

You can't build a good reputation for a vehicle (nameplate) if you drop the name after 6 years

 

Just ask GM!

[jpd80]

Think about CD4 and what Ford wants to acheive with a unified FWd/AWD platform. It has to satisfy

all the needs of North America with I-4, V6, AWD and Hybrid having adequate battery storage space.

All of that has to be available in the Fusion but at the same time, preserving the characteristics needed

to share with the next Mondeo, S-max and Galaxy and satisfy the needs of a diesel power train that

needs low weight in order to provide maximum fuel economy and lowest possible CO2 figures.

 

And then we're going to share that platform with the future Taurus.

 

I think that project is a huge undertaking and will probably span a couple of models in order to merge

engineering and to allow suppliers time to ramp up changes in parts on contracts.

 

The market is shifting and the Taurus becoming a little smaller externally will help its green image.

I think Ford is entering an interesting phase of product flexibility to meet changing buyer needs,

if they get the FWd cars right then maybe the RWDs become a natural slot above the future Taurus.

[Mustang_Marty]

Sounds like the Fox platform all over again... It spawned no less than a dozen cars on the same chassis.

[ausrutherford]

Sounds like the Fox platform all over again... It spawned no less than a dozen cars on the same chassis.

 

Just one big difference. Ford wont engineer them for 80k miles.

 

And lets make it clear, name killing at Ford has been killed itself.

Edited July 14, 2009 by ausrutherford

[Edstock]

Just one big difference. Ford wont engineer them for 80k miles.

And you know this how?

[RichardJensen]

Re: Fox

 

But recall that while there were eight Fox bodies in production at once for a couple years ('84/'85: Mustang/LTD/T-Bird, Capri/Marquis/Cougar, MK VII, Continental), most years there were only five in production.

 

With CD4, Ford should be able to crank out 12 or so every year:

 

(Fusion/Edge/Taurus/Flex, Milan, MKZ/MKX/MKS/MKT, Mondeo/S-Max/Galaxy)

Edited July 14, 2009 by RichardJensen

[RichardJensen]

And you know this how?

I believe that's a reference to the typical lifespan of the typical fox-body.

[rkisler]

Re: Fox

 

But recall that while there were eight Fox bodies in production at once for a couple years ('84/'85: Mustang/LTD/T-Bird, Capri/Marquis/Cougar, MK VII, Continental), most years there were only five in production.

 

With CD4, Ford should be able to crank out 12 or so every year:

 

(Fusion/Edge/Taurus/Flex, Milan, MKZ/MKX/MKS/MKT, Mondeo/S-Max/Galaxy)

 

While I don't think the D3 is that great as a car platform, it works well for crossovers and SUV's.

 

It's not so easy getting commonality between car and SUV platforms; it's a lot easier getting commonality between minivans and crossovers/suv's (i.e., Honda Odyssey and Pilot).

 

Ford is going to have its hands full sorting out a good, flexible car platform, so I think some of these vehicles would best be left outside the corral.

 

Edge is TBD. It's a unique platform with the MKX, CX9, and Mazda MPV in Japan. I have no idea what's happening there. Personally, I think it needs to be lighter and lower (i.e., Toyota Venza/Honda Crosstour). Could be CD4. But I hope Ford isn't thinking S-Max can go up against those two entries -- it certainly doesn't do anything for me at all.

[PREMiERdrum]

(i.e., Toyota Venza/Honda Crosstour).

 

 

I see where you're going... but could you have picked any UGLIER examples???

[ausrutherford]

^^Course not. EU wanted the edge in addition to the S-Max as well.

 

CD4 will cover Edge, Fusion/Mondeo, S-Max, Galaxy, Taurus, Flex, Explorer, Milan, MkX, maybe MkS, MkZ, MkT, 6, CX-9, and MPV and maybe Biante...thats up 16! And cuts 2 platforms and increases profitability.

[goingincirclez]

Re: Fox

 

But recall that while there were eight Fox bodies in production at once for a couple years ('84/'85: Mustang/LTD/T-Bird, Capri/Marquis/Cougar, MK VII, Continental), most years there were only five in production.

 

With CD4, Ford should be able to crank out 12 or so every year:

 

(Fusion/Edge/Taurus/Flex, Milan, MKZ/MKX/MKS/MKT, Mondeo/S-Max/Galaxy)

 

 

Just a addition/correction: 1982 had 9, and 1983 had 10 Fox nameplates each, respectively (!)

 

1982

Mustang

Fairmont (2/4/W)

Granada (2/4/W)

Thunderbrick

 

Capri

Zephyr (2/4/W)

Cougar (2/4/W) (a Cougar wagon... yeesh)

Marquis [new this year]

 

Continental (new this year)

 

 

1983

Mustang

Fairmont (2/4/W)

LTD (4/W) [nee Granada]

Thunderbird [aero]

 

Capri

Zephyr (2/4/W)

Marquis (4/W)

Cougar [aero]

 

Continental

Mark VII [new]

 

 

 

Now if you count bodystyles (2 door vs 4 door vs Wagon), 1982 had SEVENTEEN!!!! different cars on one platform! 1983 had one less.

 

It was that kind of frugality that saved Ford back then.

 

Hey look, everything old is new again!

[RichardJensen]

Was the Conti around in '83?

 

I had forgotten how long the Fairmont & Zephyr lasted...

[Hoser768]

I believe that's a reference to the typical lifespan of the typical fox-body.

 

I have 2 with 320k between them. Mine must not be typical. :P

[goingincirclez]

Was the Conti around in '83?

 

I had forgotten how long the Fairmont & Zephyr lasted...

 

I assume you mean the bustle-back Conti, which oh yes was very much around for '83. Went from 82-86 IIRC.

 

 

The "Continental" name has been so overused, abused, extraneous and redundantly applied throughout its history it's a wonder people still have any fondness for the plate at all.

 

I mean, technically all Mark Series cars from II up to and including VI were "Continentals"... but this gets dangerously confusing when looking at service literature because the "Continental" (no suffix) was itself an entirely different car...

 

...until 1981 when the Continetal Town Coupe was dropped, and the Continental Town Car was renamed simply to "Town Car"... which meant the only Continental was the Mark VI (which very much looked like a Town Car with an Opera Window)...

 

...until 1982 when the new fox Continental debuted, much smaller than ever before.

 

 

Compared to all that nonsense, I never understood the fanboy ulcers over the FWD contis that killed off the marque for good. Much like the name "Cougar" (and even "Thunderbird"), "Continental" became almost meaningless in terms of what if anything it was ever supposed to truly represent.

[armadamaster]

Yes I did. Here:

 

 

 

Therefore, the TAURUS would be the biggest sedan on the CD4/whatever platform.

 

A LWB Town Car is guess what....still a Town Car.

 

A LWB Crown Vic is still guess what....a Crown Vic.

 

So a LWB Fusion is still gonna be guess what....A FUSION!

[NickF1011]

A LWB Town Car is guess what....still a Town Car.

 

A LWB Crown Vic is still guess what....a Crown Vic.

 

So a LWB Fusion is still gonna be guess what....A FUSION!

 

So by your logic, all vehicles that share a platform but are sized differently are still the same vehicle, even if they use entirely different sheet metal, interiors, and powertrains? Just making sure I follow you here.

[RichardJensen]

While I don't think the D3 is that great as a car platform, it works well for crossovers and SUV's.

 

It's not so easy getting commonality between car and SUV platforms; it's a lot easier getting commonality between minivans and crossovers/suv's (i.e., Honda Odyssey and Pilot).

 

Ford is going to have its hands full sorting out a good, flexible car platform, so I think some of these vehicles would best be left outside the corral.

 

Edge is TBD. It's a unique platform with the MKX, CX9, and Mazda MPV in Japan. I have no idea what's happening there. Personally, I think it needs to be lighter and lower (i.e., Toyota Venza/Honda Crosstour). Could be CD4. But I hope Ford isn't thinking S-Max can go up against those two entries -- it certainly doesn't do anything for me at all.

I could see Ford developing a CUV variant of CD4 for the NA & EU CUVs.

 

However, I wouldn't go so far as to call the Venza a target for the next Edge--it's not much of an improvement in any direction-including fuel economy.