Deanh Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 (edited) Most automakers don't launch many new "product of significance" because they already launched those vehicles years ago. All you're going to get for the most part now is updates. As for the TC.... :rolleyes: I know, but look at Honda, Toyota etc etc...nothing really exciting has been released...Hyundai and Kia seem to be rolling....yeah, thought you would get a kick...selling another right now thats TWO WEEKS AWAY!!!!! ( little flower shop )......crazy...nice it qualifies for the Clunker debaucle too...good thing is visibility...the more on the road the better.........face it, like it or hate it, it has character and looks like nothing else on the road...two EXCELLENT selling points....Flex has a similar personna....character and origionality even if the two markets are so far removed......we are down to but 2 of those now too.....eeeeek!....oh, and tha Calvin avatar ROCKS! Edited August 5, 2009 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I know, but look at Honda, Toyota etc etc...nothing really exciting has been released...Hyundai and Kia seem to be rolling....yeah, thought you would get a kick...selling another right now thats TWO WEEKS AWAY!!!!! ( little flower shop )......crazy...nice it qualifies for the Clunker debaucle too...good thing is visibility...the more on the road the better.........face it, like it or hate it, it has character and looks like nothing else on the road...two EXCELLENT selling points....Flex has a similar personna....character and origionality even if the two markets are so far removed......we are down to but 2 of those now too.....eeeeek!....oh, and tha Calvin avatar ROCKS! What exactly would make Kia and Hyundai "rolling" when compared to Honda and Toyota? The Genesis? Honda and Toyota have already been selling luxury sedans for decades. The Soul? Honda released the Element years ago, ditto Toyota with the xB. There's nothing really "new" coming from those brands because they have already entered most of the segments that are available in the market. Does bode well for the TC (in the commercial market -- I never doubted it would do well there) since it seems to be a new segment entirely that no one else is currently servicing. We shall see if that segment has any sustainable retail appeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 (edited) What exactly would make Kia and Hyundai "rolling" when compared to Honda and Toyota? The Genesis? Honda and Toyota have already been selling luxury sedans for decades. The Soul? Honda released the Element years ago, ditto Toyota with the xB. There's nothing really "new" coming from those brands because they have already entered most of the segments that are available in the market. Does bode well for the TC (in the commercial market -- I never doubted it would do well there) since it seems to be a new segment entirely that no one else is currently servicing. We shall see if that segment has any sustainable retail appeal. you seem to forget Nick...the element, XB are now OLD news....good or bad its all about new product...and the Koreans for some reason are popping out product like Pubescent acne....TC will garner a few retail sales, right now its aimed at Commercial and retail sales are just gravy...but talk about freebie product awareness...and in conjunction with visibility and obvious drivetrain and cosmetic adjustments around the corner i would say the future looks pretty bright....wonder if other manufacturers will attempt praiseworthy plagerism? Edited August 5, 2009 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 you seem to forget Nick...the element, XB are now OLD news....good or bad its all about new product...and the Koreans for some reason are popping out product like Pubescent acne.... It's not all about new product at all. It's about GOOD product. There is absolutely nothing earth-shattering about the Camry or Accord is there? No. But they are perceived to be GOOD product, so they sell tremendously well - better than anything Kia or Hyundai sell by a large margin. Kia and Hyundai didn't gain any real ground until recently when their product actually started getting GOOD. All of the new product in the world isn't going to get you anywhere if it's all garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 It's not all about new product at all. It's about GOOD product. There is absolutely nothing earth-shattering about the Camry or Accord is there? No. But they are perceived to be GOOD product, so they sell tremendously well - better than anything Kia or Hyundai sell by a large margin. Kia and Hyundai didn't gain any real ground until recently when their product actually started getting GOOD. All of the new product in the world isn't going to get you anywhere if it's all garbage. exactly the same could be said about some of Fords upcoming product...what IS groundbreaking????? but if its fresh and new it has a DEFINITE leg up on the competition and THAt is the publics perception and its GOOD for ford and GOOD for the Koreans...I am seeing more and more of those damn Genesis on the roads unfortunately...HOPEFULLY the Taurus can also ride that wave....public is pretty fickle Nick....I would even go so far as to say toyota and Honda had better pull their socks up because I envisage a LOT of conquest sales....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 exactly the same could be said about some of Fords upcoming product...what IS groundbreaking????? but if its fresh and new it has a DEFINITE leg up on the competition and THAt is the publics perception and its GOOD for ford and GOOD for the Koreans...I am seeing more and more of those damn Genesis on the roads unfortunately...HOPEFULLY the Taurus can also ride that wave....public is pretty fickle Nick....I would even go so far as to say toyota and Honda had better pull their socks up because I envisage a LOT of conquest sales....... Flex is somewhat different than what else is on the market. Fiesta isn't groundbreaking, but it's a GOOD product so it should do well. The public is fickle in terms of only putting up with a fad vehicle for so long if that fad is built like crapola (see Scion xB). Being different will get you sales out of the gate. Being GOOD will keep those customers coming back again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 (edited) Flex is somewhat different than what else is on the market. Fiesta isn't groundbreaking, but it's a GOOD product so it should do well. The public is fickle in terms of only putting up with a fad vehicle for so long if that fad is built like crapola (see Scion xB). Being different will get you sales out of the gate. Being GOOD will keep those customers coming back again. don't get me wrong...GOOD product is excellent..and cudos to ford because they really have some SUPERIOR product coming, I truley this earth shattering and groundbreaking are things of the past or infrequent to say the least ( and usually $$$$$$$$$$$$ ) Fickle isnt the word Nick, some are downright crazy like the guy this mornming not understanding he needed to have 12000 down to get to where his COMPANY allowance was on the car HE desired !!!!!!!!! classic! But, all said and done, fresh product....regardless of the manufacturer raises interest and potential sales....and the Koreans are to be watched...thay have been slowly mending preconceived ideas the public HAS had of them..........they ARE to be watched....I actually admire hyundais game plan...the Genesis IS making people re-evaluate their lineup.....PPS....another Trans Connect 2 weeks away is soyanara....and a catering company wants another...FREAKY! Edited August 5, 2009 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I guess nobody notices the Honda Pilot, Ford Edge, or Toyota Highlander either. After all, they are FWD-based unit body too. Huh? Was that comment directed at me or someone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Let's not kid ourselves. The Explorer has been a poser for well over a decade already. They are hardly seriously offroad-worthy vehicles by any stretch. lets face it...if you truly wanted to go off road...you'd get a Bronco (original 66-77 series) or a Jeep Wrangler....the current crop of "soft"-roaders are just that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) does it strike anyone else as odd that 'soft-roaders' are only suitable for hard roads? Edited August 6, 2009 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Hyundai/Kia has come a long way, and any manufacturer that casually dismisses their product is out of their mind. Having said that the bulk of both brand's product lineup is filled with so-so product. Pricing, warranty and feature content (to a degree) are still some of the motivating factors here. Their strategy of closely copying other product isn't doing much to bolster brand equity either. It would be nice to have a product from either brand that's distinctive and fresh (for better or worse). Personally, outside of the Genesis sedan (and I'm not totally sold on it), I don't see myself snatching up anything from either brand. Not because I have an issue with what the name, but because there is nothing that appeals to me over the competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Huh? Was that comment directed at me or someone else? Well, the way you noted that nobody notices the Borrego sounded like a sleight against the Explorer going to FWD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97 F350 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 I think a lot of this is perception. They had a lot of holes in their lineup, so when they fill one - it's a cool new product, not an update of the same old one they sold last year. Just imagine the news if they came out with a full-size pickup line. But it would get Motor Trend truck of the year and Edmunds would bow down and proclaim that no more F-series would ever be sold now. All because it was a brand new vehicle and the Koreans can do no wrong right now. Also - they have what 3-4% of the market? So if you are selling say 35,000 cars a month (just a wild-ass guess). If you sell 5000 more in a month - think of the headlines - SALES UP 15%!!!!!!!. When Ford (150,000 a month for instance) it would be an increase of 3% - whup-di-do per the headlines. Actually this all reminds me of Mitsubishi a few years back. If you had a pulse, they would give you a car - and their sales were going gangbusters - huge % increases, great headlines, second wave of Japanese takeovers - US automakers were doomed - then reality hit. Nobody they loaned to could pay for their cars - the hidden defects - BOOM. Now besides the Evo, I can't even picture what a current Mitsubishi vehicle looks like. I think in about 5 or 6 years, there will be a Chinese car company selling here. (or Tata) and we will have the same thing - taking over the world, huge year-over-year increases in sales - doom and gloom for the domestics - great reviews by the press. Just the flavor of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Well, the way you noted that nobody notices the Borrego sounded like a sleight against the Explorer going to FWD. Oh, no that wasn't my intention....I was just commenting that literally nobody (at least in my area) has seemed to notice the Borrego (which is RWD, no?). I'm on the fence regarding the Explorer's coming FWD model. I think a lot of this is perception. They had a lot of holes in their lineup, so when they fill one - it's a cool new product, not an update of the same old one they sold last year. Just imagine the news if they came out with a full-size pickup line. But it would get Motor Trend truck of the year and Edmunds would bow down and proclaim that no more F-series would ever be sold now. All because it was a brand new vehicle and the Koreans can do no wrong right now. IIRC, they were supposed to build a truck off the Borrego platform, but it died when gas prices hiked and truck sales tanked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
417strokers Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 If the domestics build good cars the Amarican public will buy them if Ford GM and Chrysler continue to build poor cars don't blame the public for buying cars that are built better some were elce .The domestic car loyalty has gone far enough! We can't aford to buy over prices undependable cars US built cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
156n3rd Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I dont think in a field of cars, it'll ever stand out. It looks like something created 3-4 years ago, styling wise that is. But it'll sell well as long as they continue to cater to high risk/bad credit customers. I know you have faultless proof to back that sweeping statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNSLS Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I know you have faultless proof to back that sweeping statement. Yep, I am sure that Hyundai hasn't taken ONE FORD sales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 If the domestics build good cars the Amarican public will buy them if Ford GM and Chrysler continue to build poor cars don't blame the public for buying cars that are built better some were elce .The domestic car loyalty has gone far enough! We can't aford to buy over prices undependable cars US built cars. Hey Stroker....what cave have you been residing in?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_spaniard Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 lets face it...if you truly wanted to go off road...you'd get a Bronco (original 66-77 series) or a Jeep Wrangler....the current crop of "soft"-roaders are just that.... Agreed, or and old Blazer, a LR Discovery or old Land Cruiser. If I want a dedicated off-road vehicle, I would build up a Jeep Wrangler (ripping out the weenie six it comes with and dropping in a small-block V8). Ever been to the Rubicon trail? I saw wheelers of every type there. Jeep guys, Bronco/Blazer guys, modded Fj's, Yj's, Xterras, pickups of all types...you name it, people wheel them. I've seen plenty of so-called "soft-roaders" with modded rigs that run the Rubi without much headache. Anything will wheel with enough mods in it. The Wrangler is probably the best base to build on, but I've even seen modded Samurais getting the job done. I wouldn't run my Xterra up there without some suspension/tire/bumper/bar mods, but I would say the same thing about a new Jeep Rubicon - and the Jeep has SIGNIFICANT advantages over my Xterra. BOT: I think Nick is right, the Koreans are making larger strides because they have more to make up. The end result is they are becoming a more viable option for a lot of people. I don't know if I would describe the lineup as "exciting", but definitely getting "competitive". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 If the domestics build good cars the Amarican public will buy them if Ford GM and Chrysler continue to build poor cars don't blame the public for buying cars that are built better some were elce .The domestic car loyalty has gone far enough! We can't aford to buy over prices undependable cars US built cars. how as of late can you POSSIBLY bundle Ford in with the bailout twins???? seriously?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 If the domestics build good cars the Amarican public will buy them if Ford GM and Chrysler continue to build poor cars don't blame the public for buying cars that are built better some were elce .The domestic car loyalty has gone far enough! We can't aford to buy over prices undependable cars US built cars. Recent data doesn't match your description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97svtgoin05gt Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I definitely see signs of Subaru in the front of this thing. The Koreans have definitely stepped up their game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I definitely see signs of Subaru in the front of this thing. The Koreans have definitely stepped up their game. subies biggest hurdle is their lackluster styling... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goinbroke2 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Dunno what all the talk is about. It's another cuv that looks like any other cuv. It could be brand new, it could be two years old. It's another nothing vehicle, an appliance. There will be no "site" or "enthusiest's" for it. It's just another cuv that you'll see at the mall. (same as taurusX or equinox etc) "Let's not kid ourselves. The Explorer has been a poser for well over a decade already. They are hardly seriously offroad-worthy vehicles by any stretch" As far as the explorer being a soft-roader, I think you better get out in the woods some. There are about a dozen running around here as hunting veh's etc, all jacked up with 35's and winches. There is even one with 1 ton housings and 44"'s under it. Yup they are bent up and scratched, not "pretty" at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 "Let's not kid ourselves. The Explorer has been a poser for well over a decade already. They are hardly seriously offroad-worthy vehicles by any stretch" As far as the explorer being a soft-roader, I think you better get out in the woods some. There are about a dozen running around here as hunting veh's etc, all jacked up with 35's and winches. There is even one with 1 ton housings and 44"'s under it. Yup they are bent up and scratched, not "pretty" at all. And how many of them are post-2000 models? Hardly any, I will bet. They simply don't lend themselves to modifying nearly as well as the earlier models do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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