A million protest against 'Obama the socialist'

[mustang_sallad]

and you know this how?

 

 

dude, that's HILARIOUS!

 

That's actually my favourite moment in this video:

 

The interviewer is talking to a group who are all up in a huff because of Czars. "We don't know what their powers are, are they going to be given land? and power over the government?" Dude points out that Czars aren't new, mentions Regan's Drug czar and how the czarz were expanded under George W., and he points out that they are only advisory roles and that they aren't given executive powers.

 

The only response he gets is "You know this how?"

 

How about, by paying attention to political news even when its not just to bitch and moan about stuff. These people find something that angers them about their current government, and rather than bothering to learn anything about what they're complaining about, they travel straight to DC with ridiculous, uneducated slogans. These people, at least in this video, are CLEARLY not thinking for themselves. They're gullible, and entities with lots of influence (money) and who stand to lose (money) from any of the proposed changes are able to exploit their gullibility and use them to advance their own cause (more money).

 

I'm sure there might have been a few in that protest with more intelligent things to say, but from the photos and videos i've seen, seems like the majority don't really fully understand what they're protesting against.

[grbeck]

dude, that's HILARIOUS!

 

That's actually my favourite moment in this video:

 

How about, by paying attention to political news even when its not just to bitch and moan about stuff. These people find something that angers them about their current government, and rather than bothering to learn anything about what they're complaining about, they travel straight to DC with ridiculous, uneducated slogans. These people, at least in this video, are CLEARLY not thinking for themselves. They're gullible, and entities with lots of influence (money) and who stand to lose (money) from any of the proposed changes are able to exploit their gullibility and use them to advance their own cause (more money).

 

I guess they are as gullible as those who believe that any criticism of the president is motivated by racism, and that Rush Limbaugh was serious when he said that the videotape of black children attacking a white child on a school bus is proof of what happens in President Obama's America...

[Mark B. Morrow]

Megan McCardle ran a lengthy post on it (she was initially critical of it, too), and the clip included was clearly satirical.

 

The comments in response to on her blog are quite interesting. The bottom line is that, in this case, Mr. Limbaugh's critics are motivated by snobbery toward him and his listeners, and he made fools of his critics by tricking them into responding as he thought they would. They need to stop thinking that they are smarter than everyone else. They aren't.

 

The left has become the equivalent of the Big Three and the UAW - smug, arrogant, too easily dismissive of adversaries and convinced that they know everything that there is to know. Everytime I hear a leftist whining about Rush Limbaugh, and how dumb his listerners are, I hear a GM executive or UAW member or domestic fanboy whining about Toyota and Honda and "unfair" competition, and how people are being duped to buy their vehicles. We all know who turned out to be the truly clueless...and which car buyers are more sophisticated.

 

 

 

True. In this case, he hit the target much more effectively than Mr. Stewart would have, judging by the reactions to it.

 

 

 

The ones who didn't get that it is satire are The Huffington Post writers and readers, so I wouldn't go there if I were you.

 

The original video that sparked his satire showed a group of black children attacking a white child on a school bus. They were being cheered on by other black children (although other black children tried to intervene).

 

If the races of the participants had been reversed, The Huffington Post (and probably Mr. Stewart as well) would have pointed to the tape as proof of how prevelant racism still is, and, if a Republican were in the White House, insinuated that this is what happens in racist, Republican America.

 

Limbaugh gave them a deserved taste of their medicine, and they can't accept it (and apparently aren't smart enough to realize satire when they see it).

 

 

And when the protesters at the next Tea Party start shouting about Obama's America where white kids aren't safe, I guess we will see how well the Limbaugh audience understands satire. Satire is done whith a wink and a nod. When it is done right there is no misunderstanding of the point. It is just as likely that Limbaugh says exactly what he means and dresses it up as satire when he gets called out on it. Given Limbaugh's history (the Michael J. Fox tape) I am not as confident as you are as to his motives.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Mark B. Morrow

[Mark B. Morrow]

I guess they are as gullible as those who believe that any criticism of the president is motivated by racism, and that Rush Limbaugh was serious when he said that the videotape of black children attacking a white child on a school bus is proof of what happens in President Obama's America...

 

 

I certainly don't believe that ANY criticism of Obama is motivated by racism, but some of it clearly is.

[grbeck]

And when the protesters at the next Tea Party start shouting about Obama's America where white kids aren't safe, I guess we will see how well the Limbaugh audience understands satire. Satire is done whith a wink and a nod. When it is done right there is no misunderstanding of the point. It is just as likely that Limbaugh says exactly what he means and dresses it up as satire when he gets called out on it. Given Limbaugh's history (the Michael J. Fox tape) I am not as confident as you are as to his motives.

 

When conservatives don't understand satire and take it literally, it's their fault for being too literal (i.e., too stupid to understand satire)? But when liberals don't get it - as they haven't in this case - it's Limbaugh's fault for poor delivery?

 

Sorry, can't have it both ways.

Edited September 18, 2009 by grbeck

[suv_guy_19]

I certainly don't believe that ANY criticism of Obama is motivated by racism, but some of it clearly is.

 

Exactly Mark.

[xr7g428]

Keep trying to explain it all away...

 

These people find something that angers them about their current government, and rather than bothering to learn anything about what they're complaining about, they travel straight to DC with ridiculous, uneducated slogans. These people, at least in this video, are CLEARLY not thinking for themselves. They're gullible, and entities with lots of influence (money) and who stand to lose (money) from any of the proposed changes are able to exploit their gullibility and use them to advance their own cause (more money).

 

I'm sure there might have been a few in that protest with more intelligent things to say, but from the photos and videos i've seen, seems like the majority don't really fully understand what they're protesting against.

 

Every time the left dismisses these people by calling them racists or sheep or tea-baggers, they become a little less satisfied with the value of protest. There is a phrase that you need to hear: UP IN ARMS. There are signs that you need to read: WE CAME UNARMED, THIS TIME. These people, who you are attempting to shout down and deny a voice, are rapidly becoming disenfranchised. If the protesters at Selma had met this type of derision, can you image how much worse things would have been?

 

These people are angry. Many of them have lost their jobs, their retirement, the equity they thought they had in their homes, and their lives are shattered.

 

Don't you get it? The people who lost the most were the ones who were doing all the right things. They bought a house and made the payments. They put money into their 401K's and retirement accounts. They opted in for health insurance at work, and made the co pays and premiums. They believed that hard work and sacrifice would insure their future. And now they are faced with a government that is bailing out the people who got over extended, never had a 401K or any other kind of savings, wouldn't participate in group insurance at work, and generally took as much as the system could give. They see the government picking winners and losers, massive spending that pretends to stimulate the economy by spending $800 Billion on government projects, while ignoring the 70% of the economy that is consumer driven. For all practical purposes it looks like the government now owns the banks, the automakers, and soon health care. The government is now in the business of setting compensation levels and choosing employees, and even establishing who gets to be a car dealer. Politically correct takes on a more sinister character when it really means politically connected; poster child: ACORN. These are people who know in their hearts that if they come for your neighbor toady, they may come for you tomorrow. They believe that the market, for all of its problems, at least treats all of the participants equally, where the essence of government has become increasingly slanted toward unequal treatment.

 

So go ahead, shout down and dismiss every viewpoint but your own, ignore the warning signs, provoke any one that disagrees with you in your arrogance, but be ready to pay the price. Civil unrest turns to civil disobedience and then to civil war. Is that what the left wants?

 

Edited September 18, 2009 by xr7g428

[Edstock]

They believe that the market, for all of its problems, at least treats all of the participants equally

 

Those poor saps. They believed in something that just wasn't true. There are "insiders" and there are "outsiders" and these people are the latter.

[Deanh]

Keep trying to explain it all away...

 

 

 

Every time the left dismisses these people by calling them racists or sheep or tea-baggers, they become a little less satisfied with the value of protest. There is a phrase that you need to hear: UP IN ARMS. There are signs that you need to read: WE CAME UNARMED, THIS TIME. These people, who you are attempting to shout down and deny a voice, are rapidly becoming disenfranchised. If the protesters at Selma had met this type of derision, can you image how much worse things would have been?

 

These people are angry. Many of them have lost their jobs, their retirement, the equity they thought they had in their homes, and their lives are shattered.

 

Don't you get it? The people who lost the most were the ones who were doing all the right things. They bought a house and made the payments. They put money into their 401K's and retirement accounts. They opted in for health insurance at work, and made the co pays and premiums. They believed that hard work and sacrifice would insure their future. And now they are faced with a government that is bailing out the people who got over extended, never had a 401K or any other kind of savings, wouldn't participate in group insurance at work, and generally took as much as the system could give. They see the government picking winners and losers, massive spending that pretends to stimulate the economy by spending $800 Billion on government projects, while ignoring the 70% of the economy that is consumer driven. For all practical purposes it looks like the government now owns the banks, the automakers, and soon health care. The government is now in the business of setting compensation levels and choosing employees, and even establishing who gets to be a car dealer. Politically correct takes on a more sinister character when it really means politically connected; poster child: ACORN. These are people who know in their hearts that if they come for your neighbor toady, they may come for you tomorrow. They believe that the market, for all of its problems, at least treats all of the participants equally, where the essence of government has become increasingly slanted toward unequal treatment.

 

So go ahead, shout down and dismiss every viewpoint but your own, ignore the warning signs, provoke any one that disagrees with you in your arrogance, but be ready to pay the price. Civil unrest turns to civil disobedience and then to civil war. Is that what the left wants?

 

sure makes the NRA look good doesn't it....they must be SO proud......

Edited September 18, 2009 by Deanh

[xr7g428]

A little slow today Ed? Do you envision yourself as being any different than those "poor saps"? Better look in the mirror....

 

Wall Street Banker: Insider, You: Outsider. Decision maker: Government bureaucrat.

[xr7g428]

sure makes the NRA look good doesn't it....they must be SO proud......

 

Dean, you need to get out of LA more often. This has nothing to do with the NRA. You simply have no concept of the character of the people who populate the vast majority of the US.

 

The part that you are missing is that these are not just some branch of the Republican party, they are independents, and Democrats, and Libertarians. The one thing that they do not have in common is party affiliation. Do you see any Republican party ANYTHING? These are people who are fundamentally unhappy with the direction of the country. These are mostly people who have NEVER been to a protest before.

 

You don't insult people who can draw a picture of a Bushmaster rifle from memory. These people are firm believers in gun control: they almost never miss.

 

But by all means, prove these people and see what happens... Darwin award goes to???

 

There is some silly notion that as long as 51% of the population wants something, then to other 49% are going to go along with it. The tyranny of the majority is not they way America works.

 

We have never had such a left leaning government EVER. There were many voters, including myself, that felt that we needed to achieve a bit more balance, but not a hard left turn from which we will never escape.

[Edstock]

A little slow today Ed?

Not at all, XR, not at all. Sadly, the tone of your reply shows you didn't get it either.

 

These people believed in something that just wasn't true, and they were encouraged in this delusion by all the financial advertising. FWIW, once upon a time I was a stock broker; didn't like the ethics of the biz, so I moved on.

 

Free markets with no regulation offer the psychopathic an irresistable attraction for their ruthless proclivities. Like the Talking Heads song goes, "Same as it ever was" — people don't change.

[Deanh]

Dean, you need to get out of LA more often. This has nothing to do with the NRA. You simply have no concept of the character of the people who populate the vast majority of the US.

 

The part that you are missing is that these are not just some branch of the Republican party, they are independents, and Democrats, and Libertarians. The one thing that they do not have in common is party affiliation. Do you see any Republican party ANYTHING? These are people who are fundamentally unhappy with the direction of the country. These are mostly people who have NEVER been to a protest before.

 

You don't insult people who can draw a picture of a Bushmaster rifle from memory. These people are firm believers in gun control: they almost never miss.

 

But by all means, prove these people and see what happens... Darwin award goes to???

 

There is some silly notion that as long as 51% of the population wants something, then to other 49% are going to go along with it. The tyranny of the majority is not they way America works.

 

We have never had such a left leaning government EVER. There were many voters, including myself, that felt that we needed to achieve a bit more balance, but not a hard left turn from which we will never escape.

oh I totally agree...but these photos dont do ANY justice to the "cause"...the only thing missing is a few genes and teeth...for Christs sake..WHO gos to a Govt protest waving a sign that says "We are not armed...THIS time"...what exactly is that aside from a BADLY veiled THREAT?????????? MORONS! one can make a point in vastly better ways than, dare I say it, actions atone of the people we label persons of national interest or "terrorists".....someone had a problem with you/me and arrived at yours/my door stating the same thing...

[macattak1]

Keep trying to explain it all away...

 

 

 

Every time the left dismisses these people by calling them racists or sheep or tea-baggers, they become a little less satisfied with the value of protest. There is a phrase that you need to hear: UP IN ARMS. There are signs that you need to read: WE CAME UNARMED, THIS TIME. These people, who you are attempting to shout down and deny a voice, are rapidly becoming disenfranchised. If the protesters at Selma had met this type of derision, can you image how much worse things would have been?

 

These people are angry. Many of them have lost their jobs, their retirement, the equity they thought they had in their homes, and their lives are shattered.

 

Don't you get it? The people who lost the most were the ones who were doing all the right things. They bought a house and made the payments. They put money into their 401K's and retirement accounts. They opted in for health insurance at work, and made the co pays and premiums. They believed that hard work and sacrifice would insure their future. And now they are faced with a government that is bailing out the people who got over extended, never had a 401K or any other kind of savings, wouldn't participate in group insurance at work, and generally took as much as the system could give. They see the government picking winners and losers, massive spending that pretends to stimulate the economy by spending $800 Billion on government projects, while ignoring the 70% of the economy that is consumer driven. For all practical purposes it looks like the government now owns the banks, the automakers, and soon health care. The government is now in the business of setting compensation levels and choosing employees, and even establishing who gets to be a car dealer. Politically correct takes on a more sinister character when it really means politically connected; poster child: ACORN. These are people who know in their hearts that if they come for your neighbor toady, they may come for you tomorrow. They believe that the market, for all of its problems, at least treats all of the participants equally, where the essence of government has become increasingly slanted toward unequal treatment.

 

So go ahead, shout down and dismiss every viewpoint but your own, ignore the warning signs, provoke any one that disagrees with you in your arrogance, but be ready to pay the price. Civil unrest turns to civil disobedience and then to civil war. Is that what the left wants?

 

 

Amen and well said!!!

 

Peace and Blessings

[xr7g428]

oh I totally agree...but these photos dont do ANY justice to the "cause"...the only thing missing is a few genes and teeth...for Christs sake..WHO gos to a Govt protest waving a sign that says "We are not armed...THIS time"...what exactly is that aside from a BADLY veiled THREAT?????????? MORONS! one can make a point in vastly better ways than, dare I say it, actions atone of the people we label persons of national interest or "terrorists".....someone had a problem with you/me and arrived at yours/my door stating the same thing...

 

Dean, screw that light bulb in just a little bit tighter. It is not a threat, it is a promise. That is what I am trying to tell you. While you are busy trying to dismiss them as toothless idiots, to some how make it easier to ignore them, they are moving rapidly toward action.

 

These are not people who think protesting is a sport. This is not save the whales this week, and gay marriage next week, and PETA the week after that. These are people that have never been to a protest before. They have just lost pretty much everything they have worked for their entire lives. I recommend that you look very closely at the pictures of the people in the pictures. These are the faces of people who could be your neighbors.

 

Those signs are for the majority hand made. When was the last time you believed so strongly in something that you made your own protest sign, drove hundreds of miles and spent all day in a massive crowd? And they have been labeled as terrorists by Janet Napolitano your secretary of Homeland security these people do not see themselves as terrorists, they see themselves as citizens. Guess how that worked out? As difficult as it may be to grasp this, each citizen has exactly the same ownership of the country, and the same right to be heard.

 

But by all means, call them toothless inbred morons... they just love it when you do that.

[fmccap]

Free markets with no regulation offer the psychopathic an irresistable attraction for their ruthless proclivities. Like the Talking Heads song goes, "Same as it ever was" — people don't change.

Don’t Blame Free Markets for the Crisis: They Never Existed

For now, it is imperative that we stop blaming laissez-faire policies for our problems, and recognize the real causes of this crisis. Our economy is artificially stimulated, power-biased, corrupt, and manipulated. Almost nothing about it resembles true free-market capitalism.

[fmccap]

oh I totally agree...but these photos dont do ANY justice to the "cause"...the only thing missing is a few genes and teeth...for Christs sake..WHO gos to a Govt protest waving a sign that says "We are not armed...THIS time"...what exactly is that aside from a BADLY veiled THREAT?????????? MORONS! one can make a point in vastly better ways than, dare I say it, actions atone of the people we label persons of national interest or "terrorists".....someone had a problem with you/me and arrived at yours/my door stating the same thing...

 

 

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.

The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is

wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts

they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,

it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...

And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not

warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of

resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as

to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost

in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from

time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

It is its natural manure."

 

Thomas Jefferson Quote

[Edstock]

Our economy is artificially stimulated, power-biased, corrupt, and manipulated. Almost nothing about it resembles true free-market capitalism.

 

Precisely. The tragedy is that so many honest, hard-working Americans did not know about it. But the GOP wanted it that way, and regulation was curtailed, so that the market could be artificially stimulated, power-biased, corrupt, and manipulated by the sociopathic.

 

As I said, people don't change. On the late 1880's Jay Gould did the same thing.

 

"Gould's Millions", by Richard O'Connor, is a great read:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Goulds-millions-Rich...r/dp/0837168759

 

orig. Jason Gould

 

(born May 27, 1836, Roxbury, N.Y., U.S.—died Dec. 2, 1892, New York, N.Y.) U.S. railroad executive, speculator, and robber baron. Educated in local schools, he worked as a surveyor and then operated a tannery. By 1859 he was speculating in the stocks of small railways. In 1867 he became a director of the Erie Railroad; in the following year he joined with Daniel Drew and James Fisk to prevent Cornelius Vanderbilt from buying control of the company. To this end he engaged in outrageous financial manipulations, including the issue of fraudulent stock and the payment of lavish bribes to New York state legislators to legalize the stock's sale. He and Fisk then joined forces with William Magear Tweed to profit from further stock manipulations. In 1869 they attempted to corner the gold market, causing the Black Friday panic. In 1872 public outcry forced Gould to cede control of the Erie Railroad. With a fortune of $25 million, he began buying large blocks of stock in Union Pacific Railroad Company and acquired control of that company by 1874. By 1881 he owned 15% of all U.S. rail mileage. Having made large profits by manipulating the company's stock, he pulled out of the company in 1882 and began building a new rail system southwest of St. Louis that by 1890 included half the region's rail mileage. In 1881 he gained control of Western Union Corp., and he owned the New York World newspaper from 1879 to 1883. He remained ruthless, unscrupulous, and friendless to the end.

[fmccap]

Our economy is artificially stimulated, power-biased, corrupt, and manipulated. Almost nothing about it resembles true free-market capitalism.

 

Precisely. The tragedy is that so many honest, hard-working Americans did not know about it. But the GOP wanted it that way, and regulation was curtailed, so that the market could be artificially stimulated, power-biased, corrupt, and manipulated by the sociopathic.

 

As I said, people don't change. On the late 1880's Jay Gould did the same thing.

 

"Gould's Millions", by Richard O'Connor, is a great read:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Goulds-millions-Rich...r/dp/0837168759

 

orig. Jason Gould

 

(born May 27, 1836, Roxbury, N.Y., U.S.—died Dec. 2, 1892, New York, N.Y.) U.S. railroad executive, speculator, and robber baron. Educated in local schools, he worked as a surveyor and then operated a tannery. By 1859 he was speculating in the stocks of small railways. In 1867 he became a director of the Erie Railroad; in the following year he joined with Daniel Drew and James Fisk to prevent Cornelius Vanderbilt from buying control of the company. To this end he engaged in outrageous financial manipulations, including the issue of fraudulent stock and the payment of lavish bribes to New York state legislators to legalize the stock's sale. He and Fisk then joined forces with William Magear Tweed to profit from further stock manipulations. In 1869 they attempted to corner the gold market, causing the Black Friday panic. In 1872 public outcry forced Gould to cede control of the Erie Railroad. With a fortune of $25 million, he began buying large blocks of stock in Union Pacific Railroad Company and acquired control of that company by 1874. By 1881 he owned 15% of all U.S. rail mileage. Having made large profits by manipulating the company's stock, he pulled out of the company in 1882 and began building a new rail system southwest of St. Louis that by 1890 included half the region's rail mileage. In 1881 he gained control of Western Union Corp., and he owned the New York World newspaper from 1879 to 1883. He remained ruthless, unscrupulous, and friendless to the end.

Since it seems you agree with that statement then quit using it as an excuse for our problems.

[Edstock]

Since it seems you agree with that statement then quit using it as an excuse for our problems.

I have never used it as an "excuse", because it's not an excuse, it's a reason why things got so out-of-control. Capice?

 

The GOP held that regulation prevented a "free" market from functioning optimally, when its curtailment allowed all the abuses to happen, even as the average American was fed propaganda that a regulatory-free America was the Way It Should Be. IIRC, Bush II wanted to privatize Social Security.

[Mark B. Morrow]

A little slow today Ed? Do you envision yourself as being any different than those "poor saps"? Better look in the mirror....

 

Wall Street Banker: Insider, You: Outsider. Decision maker: Government bureaucrat.

 

 

The government wasn't the decision maker ofer the 8 years of the Bush II administration. They were the ones who believed in deregulation and letting the markets run wild. The irony is that the organizer of the DC protest , Dick Armey is the "enemy" these peopleclaim to be protesting against. Armey is a true Washington insider and a highly paid lobbyist. Armey had never known a time when he didn't have "Gold Plated Cadillac Health Insurance". As a former member of Congress he has the kind of health insurance those protesters could only dream of. These people are being used by the organizers of the "Astroturf" campaign.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/18/b...g_n_291625.html

 

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-sto...aced-rage/full/

 

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

Edited September 19, 2009 by Mark B. Morrow

[stephenhawkings]

It was maybe 60,000, and that is being generous. Some conservative outlets are showing aerial images with people stretching back toward the Washington Monument and claiming them to be this rally. The pictures are actually from was a March of Dimes rally 5 years ago...it's easy to tell the images were 5 years old because the National Museum of the American Indian had not been built yet. Most reports say the protesters were confined to the Capitol grounds with some filed back toward 3rd Street, but the March of Dimes photo shows people spilling all the way back to 14th, and about 1.2 million were in attendance for that. So clearly there was nowhere near 1 million (or even the 2 million some are claiming). It's nothing but right wing propaganda.

so a lot more hype, than actual hoopla!

[mustang84isu]

Keep trying to explain it all away...

 

 

 

Every time the left dismisses these people by calling them racists or sheep or tea-baggers, they become a little less satisfied with the value of protest. There is a phrase that you need to hear: UP IN ARMS. There are signs that you need to read: WE CAME UNARMED, THIS TIME. These people, who you are attempting to shout down and deny a voice, are rapidly becoming disenfranchised. If the protesters at Selma had met this type of derision, can you image how much worse things would have been?

 

These people are angry. Many of them have lost their jobs, their retirement, the equity they thought they had in their homes, and their lives are shattered.

 

Don't you get it? The people who lost the most were the ones who were doing all the right things. They bought a house and made the payments. They put money into their 401K's and retirement accounts. They opted in for health insurance at work, and made the co pays and premiums. They believed that hard work and sacrifice would insure their future. And now they are faced with a government that is bailing out the people who got over extended, never had a 401K or any other kind of savings, wouldn't participate in group insurance at work, and generally took as much as the system could give. They see the government picking winners and losers, massive spending that pretends to stimulate the economy by spending $800 Billion on government projects, while ignoring the 70% of the economy that is consumer driven. For all practical purposes it looks like the government now owns the banks, the automakers, and soon health care. The government is now in the business of setting compensation levels and choosing employees, and even establishing who gets to be a car dealer. Politically correct takes on a more sinister character when it really means politically connected; poster child: ACORN. These are people who know in their hearts that if they come for your neighbor toady, they may come for you tomorrow. They believe that the market, for all of its problems, at least treats all of the participants equally, where the essence of government has become increasingly slanted toward unequal treatment.

 

So go ahead, shout down and dismiss every viewpoint but your own, ignore the warning signs, provoke any one that disagrees with you in your arrogance, but be ready to pay the price. Civil unrest turns to civil disobedience and then to civil war. Is that what the left wants?

Sorry, but I don't agree with you on the public works spending...it is sorely needed. Out of that $891 billion, about 66% will be going toward public works projects and energy efficiency. We have had eight years of the Republicans ignoring glaring infrastructure issues that have been growing at home while we throw away billions abroad toward the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. A couple years ago, the American Society of Civil Engineers gave US infrastructure an average rating of D. A few months later, the I-35W bridge collapses in Minneapolis and kills 13. Around the same time, a portion of an overpass along Boston's Big Dig collapses and kills a passenger. I live in a city of 250,000, and the roads around the area are in horrible shape, with potholes and buckling that continues to worsen with each winter.

 

Blame 20+ years of Reaganomics and deregulation of the banking and finance sectors on this economic collapse. The unregulated free market failed, and we are in the hangover that follows. Some innocent victims got hurt, some were over leveraged (no fault but their own), but about 90% of America is still employed and we avoided a recession that could have been much worse. Your understanding of TARP is simplistic at best. There was no liquidity in the markets last winter, and the Federal government was the only stable enough source to purchase stock options that prevented the banking system from collapsing like dominoes. The stock options that the government has purchased will guarantee that they will be paid back through dividends and capital gains. And here is what is killing the right wing argument; the banks are already paying back significant sums of what was borrowed as their shares continue to recover, especially when it comes to dividends. I believe Bank of America paid around $400 million earlier this year in 1Q dividends alone. The more stock prices recover, the faster the government gets its loan money returned and the faster those controlling shares return to the hands of private investors.

 

Both industrial and housing production was up in August. The economy is still weak, but we are coming out of the recession at a slow and steady pace. The stimulus has done more than Republicans choose to give credit for...all you have to do is read the monthly data reports and follow the upward trend of DJIA and S&P. Naturally, job recovery has about a 6-12 month delay from market recovery, and we will begin seeing improvement next year in that area.

Edited September 19, 2009 by mustang84isu

[the_spaniard]

Wow, some wild stuff going on in this discussion.

 

I feel for anyone who has lost their job, house, whatever due to economic conditions.

 

I grew up back east with guns, have always owned guns, and still think these people are nuts for essentially offering a veiled threat of violence towards this administration.

 

So these people are trying to intimidate who, exactly? The CINC of the most powerful military in the world? People that don't agree with them? I get the frustration, but there are far better ways to get a message across and NOT alienate yourself in the process.

 

I'm not saying the message isn't important. I'm saying threatening violence or a show of arms destroys the importance of the message. How easy is it to dismiss these people, given their threatening messages and crude drawings of weapons? Very. And that's a shame, but they make it easy. For the record, I support any citizen's right to protest peacefully. That includes fellow citizens at this march as well as people that blowtorch American flags.

 

I also find it hilarious that people think because you live/work in California, that you are tree-hugging hippie that wouldn't touch a firearm with a ten-foot pole. We even have gun shows here! Wow.

[Len_A]

I certainly don't believe that ANY criticism of Obama is motivated by racism, but some of it clearly is.

I can't speak for the rest of the country, or for that matter the rest of the Detroit metro area, but it certainly is the case with a few of the conservatives and conservative leaning independents in just my subdivision. And they have admitted as much. During the primaries they said they wouldn't trust an African American candidate of any party, especially the Democrats, and after the conventions and some of them dissatisfied with McCain's performance and V.P. pick, they said it again, regarding their reason to sit out the election. Didn't like McCain, wouldn't vote for an African American running on the Democratic ticket. Do I think they represent all of Obama's opposition? No. Is it a large portion of Obama's opposition? I have no idea about any where outside of my neighborhood, and around here, it's more significant than just "some".