How much will Ford gain from Toyota's pain?

[jpd80]

At the high risk of throwing this thread off track, that's also the reason I wish Ford would have done at least one car diesel. To make the zealots stop whining, to give Ford a super high mileage car to advertise, and to give Ford more of a "European" edge and mystique to contrast with the Asian producers. (oh, now I've done it.....)

 

Ford has just done what you suggested and introduced the Econetic Focus down here, the Euro based average fuel consumption figure of 3.7 litres/100 klm makes it more efficient than Prius so you can imagine FoA having a big dig at Toyota - here's the ads they are using

 

Although the Econetic Fiesta is nearly $9,000 dearer than the base model, it reasonably equipped and still around $14,000 cheaper than the Prius. I'm hoping it becomes an image breaker and hybrid myth buster in Australia.

[Marginal Economist]

Can't say for sure about Toyota, but Honda has to have some of the most loyal buyers in the car business. So, I don't agree some buyers will look at Ford. People have long memories, I for one will never touch another Ford Explorer or Chevy Suburban after spending in excess of 30K for each vehicle and ending up with the "typical American Junk" that you read about on the Internet.

 

I would however, consider a Ford Truck or Ford Expedition to replace my '05 4Runner.

 

Ford will see some increase in sales, but I believe those who want a Toyota will wait it out.

 

Remember, there are still TWO GENERATIONS that perceive American cars are of lesser quality than Toyota or Honda products.

I'd think some would look at Ford. Fusion and Taurus match up great against Camry/Avalon and recieved a ton of critical acclaim over the past 6-12 months. Fusion with SYNC vs Toyota with gas pedal issues. I think we can pick up 10-20K sales between Jan and February.

[Noah Harbinger]

+1,000,000

 

This seems to be a problem overlooked by many of the "Hyundai can be a luxury brand/Lincoln should compete with BMW" set.

 

Also totally agree with you on Hyundai benefiting from its status as a foreign brand.

 

With Hyundai, you can always say "it was cheap" and/or "100k mile warranty".

 

Personally, I think Ford's had a positive enough media narrative for long enough that they will gain consideration as a top-tier brand.

[Kev-Mo]

Can't say for sure about Toyota, but Honda has to have some of the most loyal buyers in the car business. So, I don't agree some buyers will look at Ford. People have long memories, I for one will never touch another Ford Explorer or Chevy Suburban after spending in excess of 30K for each vehicle and ending up with the "typical American Junk" that you read about on the Internet.

 

I would however, consider a Ford Truck or Ford Expedition to replace my '05 4Runner.

 

Ford will see some increase in sales, but I believe those who want a Toyota will wait it out.

 

Remember, there are still TWO GENERATIONS that perceive American cars are of lesser quality than Toyota or Honda products.

 

 

And I wouldn't trade my Ford Explorer for all the Toyotas in Tokyo! I have never owned a foreign brand car in 34 years, and I have never owned a bad car so I am not buying the "typical American junk" thing. That is such an overused and overblown perception!

Edited January 31, 2010 by Kev-Mo

[weiweishen]

Can't say for sure about Toyota, but Honda has to have some of the most loyal buyers in the car business. So, I don't agree some buyers will look at Ford. People have long memories, I for one will never touch another Ford Explorer or Chevy Suburban after spending in excess of 30K for each vehicle and ending up with the "typical American Junk" that you read about on the Internet.

 

I would however, consider a Ford Truck or Ford Expedition to replace my '05 4Runner.

 

Ford will see some increase in sales, but I believe those who want a Toyota will wait it out.

 

Remember, there are still TWO GENERATIONS that perceive American cars are of lesser quality than Toyota or Honda products.

 

So there are still TWO GENERATIONS THAT WANT TO WAIT IT OUT TO BE BURST INTO FLAME OR KILLED BY JUMPING INTO PONDS. I did not realize there are still Kamikaze in US.

[StevenCaylor]

When I hear during a conversation that Fords are junk, I reply "Yeah you're right. Can you believe that since 1965, I'm on my 4th Ford?" (actually, 3 Fords and 1 Mercury).

[Noah Harbinger]

+ 1

 

You realize there are little "+" and "-" buttons in the corner of a post, right?

[RichardJensen]

With Hyundai, you can always say "it was cheap" and/or "100k mile warranty

Yeah. But that's not going to impress the other _____________s at the bar that used to be something besides a bar, when you're out spending your hard earned pay on pointlessly expensive single malts and such.

 

Or the $199 Sam Adams maple beer thing.

[Noah Harbinger]

Yeah. But that's not going to impress the other _____________s at the bar that used to be something besides a bar, when you're out spending your hard earned pay on pointlessly expensive single malts and such.

 

 

Well I can always buy a BMW emblem and cello-tape it to the bumper - who would know the difference? But then I'd have to wash it.

 

Or the $199 Sam Adams maple beer thing.

 

 

Huh, a sci-fi book series I like has people drinking maple mead (although it is generally a drink of the poor, there). I could never find anyone selling it, though there are some recipes that float around the internet.

 

I'm not averse to paying extra for unique beer, but that's just ridiculous.

[RichardJensen]

http://www.uncrate.com/men/culture/drinks/sam-adams-utopias/

 

Apparently I exaggerated the maple element. The price is from a Sioux Falls liquor store.

 

At any rate, there it sits. A testimony to man's willingness to pay top dollar to obtain the privilege of saying he paid top dollar.

Edited February 1, 2010 by RichardJensen

[blksn8k2]

Leno said the reason Ford made 2.7B profit last year was because they were building better cars, Toyotas were crashing and Hondas were bursting into flames. :o

[mettech]

http://www.uncrate.com/men/culture/drinks/sam-adams-utopias/

 

Apparently I exaggerated the maple element. The price is from a Sioux Falls liquor store.

 

At any rate, there it sits. A testimony to man's willingness to pay top dollar to obtain the privilege of saying he paid top dollar.

 

 

And that statement is overused by the people that are unable or refuse to spend money on uniqueness and/or quality.

 

It takes some luck and a lot of money to buy the "best":

 

CEO

Sports Player

House

Car

 

Sometimes the word "Best" is subjective, but most of the time there are quantitative attributes associated with it.

 

Hell, I even have some Johnny Walker and Glenfiddich that cost more than $200/bottle.

 

Those extra few years cost a lot of money.

[Noah Harbinger]

http://www.uncrate.c...-adams-utopias/

 

Apparently I exaggerated the maple element. The price is from a Sioux Falls liquor store.

 

At any rate, there it sits. A testimony to man's willingness to pay top dollar to obtain the privilege of saying he paid top dollar.

 

Well, there are 360 billionaires in the US. I don't think a one of them would sneeze over $150 for a bottle of booze.

[RichardJensen]

And that statement is overused by the people that are unable or refuse to spend money on uniqueness and/or quality.

Glenlivet is better than Dewars. And Dewars is better than Cutty Sark.

 

But when you're paying $200+ for a bottle of scotch, mostly what you're paying for the privilege of telling people what you paid for it.

 

If you want to think you're doing otherwise than spending money for the sake of spending it, be my guest, but mostly, you're lying to yourself.

[Noah Harbinger]

Glenlivet is better than Dewars. And Dewars is better than Cutty Sark.

 

But when you're paying $200+ for a bottle of scotch, mostly what you're paying for the privilege of telling people what you paid for it.

 

If you want to think you're doing otherwise than spending money for the sake of spending it, be my guest, but mostly, you're lying to yourself.

 

Some psychologists found that people who pay more for something are more likely to be satisfied by it, even if it's exactly the same thing.

 

Is it lying to yourself if you really do enjoy it more?

[RichardJensen]

Is it lying to yourself if you really do enjoy it more?

Yep.

 

There were slaves that didn't mind being slaves.

 

Not trying to create moral equivalency between buying Napoleon brandy and being enslaved---just pointing out that we're pretty adept at convincing ourselves of the most preposterous things.

Edited February 1, 2010 by RichardJensen

[mettech]

Glenlivet is better than Dewars. And Dewars is better than Cutty Sark.

 

But when you're paying $200+ for a bottle of scotch, mostly what you're paying for the privilege of telling people what you paid for it.

 

If you want to think you're doing otherwise than spending money for the sake of spending it, be my guest, but mostly, you're lying to yourself.

 

My God... it worked!!

[V8-X]

Does anyone really want to own a Toyota/Honda/Hyundai?

Well, most I know well don't. But I have quite a few co-workers that are loyalists.

 

Can't say for sure about Toyota, but Honda has to have some of the most loyal buyers in the car business. So, I don't agree some buyers will look at Ford. People have long memories, I for one will never touch another Ford Explorer or Chevy Suburban after spending in excess of 30K for each vehicle and ending up with the "typical American Junk" that you read about on the Internet.

 

I would however, consider a Ford Truck or Ford Expedition to replace my '05 4Runner.

Exactly. After experiencing 3 different Explorers (I owned one and father owned two), I could never own another Explorer. Too much $$$ with too many problems. Of course, my basis covers the Gen II & Gen III Explorers. Never was a fan of the Gen III with their IRS, so don't think I'd consider the upcoming Explorer either.

 

Now the Expy, I've heard good/bad on. So I couldn't recommend it, but also couldn't say anything really bad either. Of course I dislike the IRS on the Expy too. And after owning 3 different generations of F150s, I could recommend them all.

 

And I wouldn't trade my Ford Explorer for all the Toyotas in Tokyo! I have never owned a foreign brand car in 34 years, and I have never owned a bad car so I am not buying the "typical American junk" thing. That is such an overused and overblown perception!

Even though I couldn't force myself to own another Explorer, I also couldn't force myself to own a Toyota either.

 

I hate the "typical American junk" philosophy people use, but it's still warranted on many vehicles, especially many Dodge's and GM's my friends/family have owned, as well as the Explorer's I've previously mentioned.

Edited February 2, 2010 by V8-X

[blksn8k2]

From MSNBC:

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35200833/ns/business-autos/?GT1=43001

[CKNSLS]

"And I wouldn't trade my Ford Explorer for all the Toyotas in Tokyo! I have never owned a foreign brand car in 34 years, and I have never owned a bad car so I am not buying the "typical American junk" thing. That is such an overused and overblown perception!"

 

Kevmo, I would be very interested in a list of cars you have owned over the last 34 years. You have been either very lucky or have not purchased models that were made by the American car manufacturers that were "junk".

 

For Example, many of the problems associated with my Ford Explorer were WELL KNOWN and WIDE SPREAD.

 

I bought the vehicle in good faith....but frankly it wasn't a good product overall.

 

How have you been so lucky?

[TomServo92]

"And I wouldn't trade my Ford Explorer for all the Toyotas in Tokyo! I have never owned a foreign brand car in 34 years, and I have never owned a bad car so I am not buying the "typical American junk" thing. That is such an overused and overblown perception!"

 

Kevmo, I would be very interested in a list of cars you have owned over the last 34 years. You have been either very lucky or have not purchased models that were made by the American car manufacturers that were "junk".

 

For Example, many of the problems associated with my Ford Explorer were WELL KNOWN and WIDE SPREAD.

 

I bought the vehicle in good faith....but frankly it wasn't a good product overall.

 

How have you been so lucky?

 

WELL KNOWN and WIDE SPREAD does not mean it occurs in 100% of the vehicles.

[CKNSLS]

WELL KNOWN and WIDE SPREAD does not mean it occurs in 100% of the vehicles.

 

Well -when they put that new tranny and rear end in the Ford Explorer (2001 or 2002?), there were thousands of problems, but your right-not 100% of the time. BTW-if it happens to the vehicle you own, it doesn't matter, it's one too many!

Edited February 3, 2010 by CKNSLS

[RichardJensen]

if it happens to the vehicle you own, it doesn't matter, it's one too many!

Because if it happens to someone else, it doesn't matter right?

 

As long as I'm not starving, I don't care who's starving.

[harddrive747]

I have looked over this thread and I think Ford will gain a bit, but not much. However, I think Toyota's reputation has gotten a serious tarnish now, because of the recall, the fuel pedal problem and now the brakes on the Prius. Their squeaky clean and "perfect" quality cars now have flaws in them. This will hopefully make people see all other car companies as possibly places to purchase a vehicle. Does this mean that they will go to Ford, I don't think so, but they might consider it if they do their homework and read the reviews.

 

I believe that now that Toyota is having issues, in a way their true colors are coming out. As long as things were going well and they were on top, you heard nothing from them, but put a bit of trails in their lives, then they start complaining about all the negative press they are getting. I'm sorry to say, it's like as long as the kid is getting what he wants, he is happy, but as soon as he doesn't get his way and things go bad, then he screams bloody murder and I have been wronged.

 

So people will by what they want and if they don't feel safe in a Toyota anymore, than there are many other car manufacturers out there. They can shop around and find a car that suits there needs and fancy. I personally am a Ford person. I have driven one foreign car and that was a 1970 VW Beetle, the original one. Then my other cars were a 1984 Chevy Cavalier, which I traded in when it started giving me electrical problems. Since then I have own 3 Ford Explorers, a 1994, 2002 and now a 2010. All three of these trucks have been terrific. In fact all are still on the road. My nephew has one, my brother-in-law has another and I got the third. So far the 1994, 2002 have over 160,000 miles and are still going strong. I keep my trucks up. I don't abuse them and maintain them.

 

So it will be interesting to see the ripple effect of the recall with Toyota and how it's problem will show up in the rest of the car industry.

[blksn8k2]

I don't think we will begin to see the effects of all this until the end of Feb. The you know what didn't really hit the fan until the last week of January so any conquest sales for the rest of the industry may not show up in Jan numbers. For instance, Ford's retail sales were actually down 5% compared to Jan last year. Their fleet sales were up 30% which accounted for their overall 25% gain.