May 2010 Sub- & Compact Cars

[silvrsvt]

Perhaps not initially, but with Ford apparently planning a 2nd C-car plant, I can't see volume constraints being an issue.

 

 

But there will also be other C sized products on the market too

 

 

 

 

[ausrutherford]

Another question is whether or not Ford has the capacity to build them in that volume.

 

Thats why Ford its to redo the current Focus side of the facility.

[bzcat]

But there will also be other C sized products on the market too

 

Ford will have Wayne and Louisville assigned to the new C-platform cars. Wayne will primarily be Focus and Louisville will primarily be Escape.

But I think the Escape/Kuga line can pitch in and make Focus as well if need be since they will be very similar. Isn't that the point of using the same platforms and making the lines "flexible"?

 

Honda assembles Civic in 2 lines (Ontario and Ohio) to meet demand in North America.

 

Toyota used to have 2 plants for Corolla/Matrix before NUMMI was shut down. And instead, it is increasing the % of imported Corolla from Japan.

 

If Ford is doing this right, Focus volume will grow and 2-plant strategy will probably pay off.

Edited June 11, 2010 by bzcat

[Biker16]

Ford will have Wayne and Louisville assigned to the new C-platform cars. Wayne will primarily be Focus and Louisville will primarily be Escape.

But I think the Escape/Kuga line can pitch in and make Focus as well if need be since they will be very similar. Isn't that the point of using the same platforms and making the lines "flexible"?

 

Honda assembles Civic in 2 lines (Ontario and Ohio) to meet demand in North America.

 

Toyota used to have 2 plants for Corolla/Matrix before NUMMI was shut down. And instead, it is increasing the % of imported Corolla from Japan.

 

If Ford is doing this right, Focus volume will grow and 2-plant strategy will probably pay off.

 

 

Focus volume will include C-max production, like corolla includes Matrix.

[2b2]

...But I think the Escape/Kuga line can pitch in and make Focus as well if need be since they will be very similar. Isn't that the point of using the same platforms and making the lines "flexible"?

IT BETTER...

...even that doesn't sound all that "flexible" to me - I mean it's all the same C3 platform family

 

imho

vehicles from (at least?) 2 (TWO!) size-classes should be able to run at each plant

Flex/MKT + Taurus/Explorer/MKS (even after the later are CD4)

Taurus/Explorer/MKS + Fusion/MKZ/Edge/MKX (should be easy)

Fusion/MKZ/Edge/MKX + Focus/Kuga/TCo/etc (most helpful nearterm)

Focus/Kuga/TCo/etc + Fiesta/B-Max (plan for a smaller future)

[MKII]

Didn't Ford announce Valencia Plant will produce the seven-seat version of the C-MAX for export to North America beginning in late 2011.

[waymondospiff]

Didn't Ford announce Valencia Plant will produce the seven-seat version of the C-MAX for export to North America beginning in late 2011.

 

Yup, the "global sourcing point" for all C-MAXes will be Spain.

 

http://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-latest/ford-confirms-us-2012-grand-c_max-will-be-built-in-spain

 

Is the long-term plan for Transit Connect to be imported to N.A. from Turkey? If yes, what C-Chassis vehicles will be produced in N.A.? Just the Focus Sedan/Hatch and Escape/Kuga?

[silvrsvt]

Is the long-term plan for Transit Connect to be imported to N.A. from Turkey? If yes, what C-Chassis vehicles will be produced in N.A.? Just the Focus Sedan/Hatch and Escape/Kuga?

 

 

Well to throw a wrench into the Escape/Kuga making Foci or other C-based cars....LAP is going to the sole global source for the C-sized CUV

 

 

 

 

[jpd80]

Well to throw a wrench into the Escape/Kuga making Foci or other C-based cars....LAP is going to the sole global source for the C-sized CUV

 

Does this mean:

- the Kuga plant in Germany closes down?

- the Asian Escape plant in Taiwan also closes down?

[ausrutherford]

Does this mean:

- the Kuga plant in Germany closes down?

- the Asian Escape plant in Taiwan also closes down?

 

I pretty sure the German plant builds Focuses. And they really cant shut down the Taiwan plant for Taiwan is very protectionist.

[rmc523]

Is the long-term plan for Transit Connect to be imported to N.A. from Turkey? If yes, what C-Chassis vehicles will be produced in N.A.? Just the Focus Sedan/Hatch and Escape/Kuga?

 

No, TC production is supposed to be added here long-term.

[jpd80]

I pretty sure the German plant builds Focuses. And they really cant shut down the Taiwan plant for Taiwan is very protectionist.

My point is that the US won't be the only source for C sized CUVs because

Saarlouis will continue making Kuga and Taiwan will be retooled for Kuga.

[SVT_MAN]

Toyota needs all the help they can get. The xD is basically a new vehicle and it can't outsell a Chrysler that was introduced in the last century!

 

Where did this come from? Why aren't the small Jeeps on it? Isn't the Versa classified as a compact car?

 

I would not gloat too much in the competition's poorly performing products. Ford has some metal that doesn't move particularly well either. (Ford Flex, for example.)

 

Toyota has plenty of strong performing vehicles to offset the performance of a few stinkers.

[PREMiERdrum]

I would not gloat too much in the competition's poorly performing products. Ford has some metal that doesn't move particularly well either. (Ford Flex, for example.)

 

Toyota has plenty of strong performing vehicles to offset the performance of a few stinkers.

 

Shoot, some of their cars are runaway hits!

[ausrutherford]

My point is that the US won't be the only source for C sized CUVs because

Saarlouis will continue making Kuga and Taiwan will be retooled for Kuga.

 

Well Kansas City can barely meet the current Escape production so I bet they will need another plant just for the Escape in the US.

 

I actually think it would be better to move Kuga production out of Germany...and into Russia.

[rmc523]

Ford has some metal that doesn't move particularly well either. (Ford Flex, for example.)

 

All indications are that it's profitable and accomplishing a high rate of conquest sales, though. As with the Freestyle and Taurus X, Flex is suffering from a lack of advertisement - I only saw the one debut ad, and now it's featured in a local commercial for literally a fraction of a second (it's there...and gone). If they'd advertise the thing (especially focusing on it's interior, as that's what sells it - I know people that hate the exterior love the interior and have been sold on that), it'd sell a lot better I think.

 

Shoot, some of their cars are runaway hits!

 

I get it!

 

Well Kansas City can barely meet the current Escape production so I bet they will need another plant just for the Escape in the US.

 

I just hope the Kuga/Escape merger doesn't fall flat on it's face with "Escape" styling probably giving way to "Kuga" styling. As I've said many times before, I feel that a good part of Escape's success is the simple fact of it's trucky looks - a trait that no other small SUV has. Going to "Kuga" styling, while I'm sure it'll look great, will really me more of a "me too" design than a "hey, I'm different from the crowd (in a good way)" design.

 

I did support making the Kuga (the current model's successor) a Mercury and letting the Escape stay keep it's current trucky look, but obviously that's not possible anymore.

 

SO, I'd argue for TWO FORD c-segment CUVs:

 

--- the Kuga, which will be what was already set to become the new global Escape/Kuga

 

AND

 

--- the North American Escape, which keeps it's trucky styling (and therefore it's characteristics and distinction) in a complete redesign with all the underpinnings of the global Kuga for 2012 (or thereabout) when it was already scheduled to be replaced with the global Escape/Kuga.

 

That way you serve both markets (the one that wants a trucky-looking vehicle, and the one that wants a swoopy crossover vehicle) - while not alienating the other - especially loyal Escape owners - , AND you keep the ONE FORD plan in tact by having a GLOBAL Kuga (rather than a Kuga * , the asterisk for: "*Escape in North America) and a North American Escape.

Edited June 14, 2010 by rmc523

[ausrutherford]

All indications are that it's profitable and accomplishing a high rate of conquest sales, though. As with the Freestyle and Taurus X, Flex is suffering from a lack of advertisement - I only saw the one debut ad, and now it's featured in a local commercial for literally a fraction of a second (it's there...and gone). If they'd advertise the thing (especially focusing on it's interior, as that's what sells it - I know people that hate the exterior love the interior and have been sold on that), it'd sell a lot better I think.

 

 

 

I get it!

 

 

 

I just hope the Kuga/Escape merger doesn't fall flat on it's face with "Escape" styling probably giving way to "Kuga" styling. As I've said many times before, I feel that a good part of Escape's success is the simple fact of it's trucky looks - a trait that no other small SUV has. Going to "Kuga" styling, while I'm sure it'll look great, will really me more of a "me too" design than a "hey, I'm different from the crowd (in a good way)" design.

 

I did support making the Kuga (the current model's successor) a Mercury and letting the Escape stay keep it's current trucky look, but obviously that's not possible anymore.

 

SO, I'd argue for TWO FORD c-segment CUVs:

 

--- the Kuga, which will be what was already set to become the new global Escape/Kuga

 

AND

 

--- the North American Escape, which keeps it's trucky styling (and therefore it's characteristics and distinction) in a complete redesign with all the underpinnings of the global Kuga for 2012 (or thereabout) when it was already scheduled to be replaced with the global Escape/Kuga.

 

That way you serve both markets (the one that wants a trucky-looking vehicle, and the one that wants a swoopy crossover vehicle) - while not alienating the other - especially loyal Escape owners - , AND you keep the ONE FORD plan in tact by having a GLOBAL Kuga (rather than a Kuga * , the asterisk for: "*Escape in North America) and a North American Escape.

 

Agreed! And hopefully they build them in South America and China this time around. The Escape would make a perfect Troller :shades:

[rmc523]

Agreed! And hopefully they build them in South America and China this time around. The Escape would make a perfect Troller :shades:

 

I hope you mean in addition to NA production, right?

 

---

 

How 'bout a "Raptor-ized" Escape - geared for offroading as opposed to Baja racing?

[ausrutherford]

I hope you mean in addition to NA production, right?

 

---

 

How 'bout a "Raptor-ized" Escape - geared for offroading as opposed to Baja racing?

 

Yes of course. Kuga/Escape factories should be in Argentina, China, 2 US, Russia, and Taiwan.

 

That would be cool...but Id rather have a Bronco

[rmc523]

Yes of course. Kuga/Escape factories should be in Argentina, China, 2 US, Russia, and Taiwan.

 

That would be cool...but Id rather have a Bronco

 

Ok, but you just asked for an Escape that was like that little Troller thing you like so much.

 

And here ya go (not a TRUE Bronco, but it's a modern day one lol):

 

 

[2b2]

...How 'bout a "Raptor-ized" Escape - geared for offroading as opposed to Baja racing?

that sounds familiar

 

remember my request for a T6-Raptor chop, Rmc? ...any chance?

[rmc523]

<br>that sounds <i>familiar</i> <img src="http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif" class="bbc_emoticon" alt=""><br><br>remember my request for a T6-Raptor chop, Rmc? ...any chance?<br>

<br><br>No, I honestly don't remember that request.  We'll see - I still have the rear of my (your?) MKG to do and considering it's my birthday today, I more than likely won't be getting to any of that today.

[2b2]

<br><br>No, I honestly don't remember that request.  We'll see - I still have the rear of my (your?) MKG to do and considering it's my birthday today, I more than likely won't be getting to any of that today.

{breaker}{breaker} HAPPY B-DAY, RMC!!! {breaker}{breaker}

Hope you have a GREAT one!

 

I mentioned the T6-Raptor at FmcN/FiN when you did either a 4door Raptor or Raptor-Suv - not sure now - if you ever find the time & interest that'd be super

{breaker}

[html off]{breaker}

[rmc523]

We'll see - if I have time in the coming days/weeks, I'll try to get to something along those lines.

[waymondospiff]

I just hope the Kuga/Escape merger doesn't fall flat on it's face with "Escape" styling probably giving way to "Kuga" styling. As I've said many times before, I feel that a good part of Escape's success is the simple fact of it's trucky looks - a trait that no other small SUV has. Going to "Kuga" styling, while I'm sure it'll look great, will really me more of a "me too" design than a "hey, I'm different from the crowd (in a good way)" design.

 

Agree. Some people want to look like they're driving a truck, even if it is just a Mazda 626 on stilts. And in the compact CUV market, it's the Escape or nothing. I hope they don't mess that up. I think an Escape that apes some of the cues from the upcoming Explorer might work well. I'm surprised an auto analyst has never raised that issue, or, heck, even why Ford doesn't mention that in their monthly sales release. If there's a reason the Escape is outselling arguably "better" small CUVs, then maybe you should mention it?

 

None of this is that the Kuga would not do well, but it wouldn't capture a part of the Escape's clientele.

 

And also, Ford would be foolish to go with "Kuga" over "Escape". The Escape is one of Ford's volume vehicles (F-Series, Fusion, Focus, & Escape) and to throw that all away for globabl synergy, well, that'd be like calling the Taurus a "Five Hundred" or something!