Deanh Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 I was just saying that when that kind of excess comes a cropper, you can't expect a lot of sympathy from people............ those that have it have a tendency to think it will never end Rich....Toyota anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 ....and Nick, I would speculate there arent that many selling OVER 30 a month......... Exactly. Lexus' dealer network, if I recall, is about 1/5 the size of Lincoln's, if not smaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 Exactly. Lexus' dealer network, if I recall, is about 1/5 the size of Lincoln's, if not smaller. so, is the answer "culling" or better product?..............or both?...me I REALLY feel for the "little" guys that will ultimately lose out, and the rich get richer....so, does America actually support smaller business's or what?.....heck, this is like my take on sports...I seem to always support the underdogs there too....and anyone playing against the Yankees and Heat....lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 so, is the answer "culling" or better product?..............or both?...me I REALLY feel for the "little" guys that will ultimately lose out, and the rich get richer....so, does America actually support smaller business's or what?.....heck, this is like my take on sports...I seem to always support the underdogs there too....and anyone playing against the Yankees and Heat....lol It's definitely some of both. It doesn't take the number of dealers Lincoln has to sell the products it has currently or will have in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 so, is the answer "culling" or better product?..............or both?...me I REALLY feel for the "little" guys that will ultimately lose out, and the rich get richer....so, does America actually support smaller business's or what?.....heck, this is like my take on sports...I seem to always support the underdogs there too....and anyone playing against the Yankees and Heat....lol Do you honestly think Lincoln could sell 5 times the volume of Lexus? No way. So even with better products they still have way too many dealers. Do you honestly think Lincoln can compete with Lexus/Infiniti/Cadillac/etc. with existing Lincoln/Mercury showrooms? No way. Is this a big bluff to force marginal dealers out of business? Entirely possible. But given the state franchise laws I don't see where Ford has a choice. So I say again, oh wise one - WHAT WOULD YOU DO? Stop whining about it and offer a SOLUTION that you think is fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 (edited) Do you honestly think Lincoln could sell 5 times the volume of Lexus? No way. So even with better products they still have way too many dealers. Do you honestly think Lincoln can compete with Lexus/Infiniti/Cadillac/etc. with existing Lincoln/Mercury showrooms? No way. Is this a big bluff to force marginal dealers out of business? Entirely possible. But given the state franchise laws I don't see where Ford has a choice. So I say again, oh wise one - WHAT WOULD YOU DO? Stop whining about it and offer a SOLUTION that you think is fair. Kirby...please write this down...IM NOT WHINING...and I believe for once my spelling is correct. All i am doing is offering a PERSPECTIVE you are obviously OBLIVOUS and unable to conceive....and please refer to previous posts in regards to me offering what I would do...if you are too friggen lazy, write THIS down also....I offer NO alternative, I merely state I question the ethics....ok? (edit snicker...mis-spelled believe ) Edited October 27, 2010 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 (edit snicker...mis-spelled believe ) Misspelled "misspelled" too. Ironic? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 Misspelled "misspelled" too. Ironic? :D just leave up to me...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 ok, how about this...SUPPLY THIS AMAZING PRODUCT BEFORE DEMANDS...let the dealers that have been wallowing with substandard product make some coin they probably havent made in the past. And THEN state what is deemed necessary to obtain inventorys. If the cars ARE as special as Lincoln seems to think they are, then dealers are far more likely to cough up the $ requested. If they dont, THEN start limiting allocation..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 (edited) ok, how about this...SUPPLY THIS AMAZING PRODUCT BEFORE DEMANDS...let the dealers that have been wallowing with substandard product make some coin they probably havent made in the past. And THEN state what is deemed necessary to obtain inventorys. If the cars ARE as special as Lincoln seems to think they are, then dealers are far more likely to cough up the $ requested. If they dont, THEN start limiting allocation..... It's a mixed bag. You get the great product, but nobody will want to go to a shoddy showroom to go see it. Or you get a great showroom with hit-or-miss product. Ford decided to force the latter. And well, renovations don't occur overnight either, so the dealerships who decide to upgrade will be getting those changes completed right around the same time some of the new Lincolns are slated to arrive. Edited October 27, 2010 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 ok, how about this...SUPPLY THIS AMAZING PRODUCT BEFORE DEMANDS...let the dealers that have been wallowing with substandard product make some coin they probably havent made in the past. And THEN state what is deemed necessary to obtain inventorys. If the cars ARE as special as Lincoln seems to think they are, then dealers are far more likely to cough up the $ requested. If they dont, THEN start limiting allocation..... Considering how Ford management dropped the ball with Lincoln/Mercury product planning, IMHO, the home office kinda owes the dealers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 It's a mixed bag. You get the great product, but nobody will want to go to a shoddy showroom to go see it. Or you get a great showroom with hit-or-miss product. Ford decided to force the latter. And well, renovations don't occur overnight either, so the dealerships who decide to upgrade will be getting those changes completed right around the same time some of the new Lincolns are slated to arrive. I understand that fully...but remember...Ive literally BEEN on the other side of the coin with an incredible showroom.....and the costs in conjunction with a product we took for granted as being good and in demand, are the reason the dealer is no longer in business. And I think its pretty ballsy for Lincoln all of a sudden to make demands on dealers they have left languishing for so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 I understand that fully...but remember...Ive literally BEEN on the other side of the coin with an incredible showroom.....and the costs in conjunction with a product we took for granted as being good and in demand, are the reason the dealer is no longer in business. And I think its pretty ballsy for Lincoln all of a sudden to make demands on dealers they have left languishing for so long. Although, let's be honest, there's a big difference between that boondoggle you described and Ford's demands which are probably doable with realistic volume targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 Although, let's be honest, there's a big difference between that boondoggle you described and Ford's demands which are probably doable with realistic volume targets. maybe, but 1 million to a lincoln dealer was TWO transactions at the ferrari dealer......GOD I MISS THOSE DAYS! LMAO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campbell53 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 Although, let's be honest, there's a big difference between that boondoggle you described and Ford's demands which are probably doable with realistic volume targets. I think we have until 4th Q 2013 to complete building renovation/addition. I have not had my meeting with the Lincoln folks yet so I do not know any other details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 Considering how Ford management dropped the ball with Lincoln/Mercury product planning, IMHO, the home office kinda owes the dealers. thx Ed, thats basically my "whining" in a nutshell......ahem. I understand Fords point of veiw entirely, just think its a bit shitty to some that have stuck with them for so long..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 (edited) I think we have until 4th Q 2013 to complete building renovation/addition. I have not had my meeting with the Lincoln folks yet so I do not know any other details. hang in there campbell...I sure hope the product is as good and lucrative as Lincoln undoubtedly seems to think it is.....( which is a tad presumptuous if you ask me ) Edited October 27, 2010 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 (edited) TWO transactions at the ferrari dealer Yeah, but those Ferrari's weren't free. There was a guy here in town made something of a name for himself brokering Lambos. Granted he's a guy who got himself fired from another car dealership his first day on the job for lying. Still, there was a lot of prestige for him in tooling around town in these Lambos, but there wasn't a lot of money in it. Sure there's more money in selling these things as a dealer, but selling 400 cars @ $1k per will net you more profit than 5 Ferraris @ $40k per. Edited October 27, 2010 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campbell53 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 hang in there campbell...I sure hope the product is as good and lucrative as Lincoln undoubtedly seems to think it is.....( which is a tad presumptuous if you ask me ) Thanks I will try. I 'hope' you are right and I 'hope' that Ford will put out an incredible Lincoln product. If there is more than was shown to us I think that is a pretty big violation of trust. But my checking account isn't made up of 'hope'. I will spend real money on a real building to house something that is not yet been made real to me. This has to be a post 2015 renaissance because I see nothing until then that will change the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 Yeah, but those Ferrari's weren't free. There was a guy here in town made something of a name for himself brokering Lambos. Granted he's a guy who got himself fired from another car dealership his first day on the job for lying. Still, there was a lot of prestige for him in tooling around town in these Lambos, but there wasn't a lot of money in it. Sure there's more money in selling these things as a dealer, but selling 400 cars @ $1k per will net you more profit than 5 Ferraris @ $40k per. news to Rich, ferraris generally sell over MSRP...F40 in the day windowed for 279k if i remember rightly, average transaction prices were 1 mill....the money was flat out scary and people were bidding aginst one another to be first in line and all were sold before arrival ( I'm talking prior to the infamous Lux Tax ). Not quite sure how the prancing horse market is today, but I beleive Ferrari frowns on addendums. So to counter that dealers register them, and sell them as used with 5 miles on em. Then they charge what they want......funny story, i remember showing Rod Stewart an f40, he had the most BIZARRE taste in cars and was a cheap bastard....ever seen a White Testarossa with a CHOCOLATE interior...egad..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 Thanks I will try. I 'hope' you are right and I 'hope' that Ford will put out an incredible Lincoln product. If there is more than was shown to us I think that is a pretty big violation of trust. But my checking account isn't made up of 'hope'. I will spend real money on a real building to house something that is not yet been made real to me. This has to be a post 2015 renaissance because I see nothing until then that will change the game. gut ( and the shots I still lust after...MKR ) and belief tells me its a wise move if you dont have a choice. I still condemn the strong arm tactics but it seems theres no alternative. And I really think, and hope for your sake, that Lincoln will become a shining star....the product has taken pretty significant leaps from the past, even if they are relatively conservative ( what does that say about prior product ? ) efforts to date. I beleive theres an amazing future in stall, and I hope you recoup your $ and then some. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 here ya go lads, and FWIW, I was along with one other gentleman, the manager on duty for the month mentioned, and an A-hole that was on vacation for 3 weeks took the credit....sheesh, damn car business....ironically he went on to run a Lincoln Mercury dealer as well...it too went POOF......NEWPORT IMPORTS...The dealership, nestled among the yacht brokers and swank restaurants of Coast Highway in Newport Beach, was closed late Monday after a receiver was named at the behest of the property's primary creditor, Tokai Credit Corp., said Lee West Enterprises' lawyer, Todd C. Ringstad. Owner Leland West could not be reached for comment. About 100 Newport Imports employees lost their jobs in the sudden closure. Ringstad said he did not contest liquidation of the dealership, which had been operating since September, 1992, under bankruptcy court protection. Tokai moved to have a receiver appointed, he said, after Lee West Enterprises missed the deadline for a payment called for under terms of its Chapter 11 reorganization plan. "When Tokai did not grant any additional time, it was clear we would not be able to reorganize," Ringstad said Wednesday. "Everyone was really pulling for Newport Imports. We really wanted to see this reorganization." He said he did not know the amount of the payment that was missed. Documents included with Lee West Enterprises' initial bankruptcy filing stated that Tokai was owed $8 million for land and the buildings that made up the car dealership. Ringstad said Tokai has taken all the cars that had been for sale at the dealership except for its collection of Jaguars. "It's a real tragedy. It was a real landmark for Newport Beach," Ringstad said. Though Newport Imports had been badly shaken by the recession, a new line of Jaguars had revved up sales, he said. "The dealership had just had the best weekend in three years," he said. "Things were looking up." The British-made luxury car sells for prices starting at $50,000. Newport Imports was one of the nation's largest Jaguar dealers, said Joseph W. Hernandez, a Jaguar district sales manager. In the boom years of the 1980s, he said, Newport Imports sold 500 or more Jaguars a year. He, too, said the dealership's sales had been increasing recently. Hernandez was at Newport Imports on Wednesday afternoon to make sure that customers who had left their cars for service could pick them up. Some former employees also stopped by. One of them, dressed in a green Jaguar golf shirt, was June Armstrong, who said she had worked for the dealership as a clerk. The business, she said, "was very special. The people here all worked together." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 and anyone playing against the Yankees and Heat....lol HEY! I complete support hate against the Yankees, but leave the Heat alone! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 I think we have until 4th Q 2013 to complete building renovation/addition. I have not had my meeting with the Lincoln folks yet so I do not know any other details.somehow that "2013-going-into-2014" sounds like a more reasonable time to expect to see significant changes arrive at the dealers than the full "4 years" (ie late 2014) that's been mentioned since the big meeting. however Thanks I will try. I 'hope' you are right and I 'hope' that Ford will put out an incredible Lincoln product. If there is more than was shown to us I think that is a pretty big violation of trust. But my checking account isn't made up of 'hope'. I will spend real money on a real building to house something that is not yet been made real to me. This has to be a post 2015 renaissance because I see nothing until then that will change the game. Campbell, ONE of the things I don't understand is the apparent/imho change of direction regarding a Focus-based CAR for Lincoln (ie getting just the KuGa-based cuvlet: "MKG"?) Imho the small Cuv (for those who prefer 'capacity') would be ideally complemented by a sportier-than-anticipated Lincoln small-Car now I'd 'never' want to drag this off-topic by posting non-Fomoco pix LINK-1 or (worse yet) chops LINK-2 but I'd love to ask you (a real dealer!) if you think you could sell my LincolneTTe LINK-1 or mkS & mkSS LINK-2 which imho would sure help you guys stay in business thru 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 news to Rich, ferraris generally sell over MSRP...F40 in the day windowed for 279k if i remember rightly, average transaction prices were 1 mill.... I know Ferraris sell for over MSRP. I also know that you can't build a business off a few quick scores, as in that Lambo broker here in town. How many F40s were made? 40? Now how many of those could your dealer sell? 3? 4? Would I loan $10M to a guy selling Ferrari F40s out of briefcases at 1:30AM? Not on your life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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