Bob Rosadini Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 That's the good news. The bad news is Chrysler is building it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esevans Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Why'd you make me click on this? I drooled over that car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 If you are referring to the apparently $1 billion 300, I would say Ford dodged a bullet. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 Why'd you make me click on this? I drooled over that car. I think a lot of people did- made the cover of Autoweek TWICE! That must have been the kiss of death, Oh well - looks like we are now on an electric bandwagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Oh well - looks like we are now on an electric bandwagon. Welcome to the world of CAFE. These electric cars will keep things like 540 horsepower Mustangs and SVT Raptors viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I'd love to know the accounting that lets them claim they spent $1B on that. Either that, or tell me how to become a contractor for Chrysler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I'd love to know the accounting that lets them claim they spent $1B on that. Either that, or tell me how to become a contractor for Chrysler. 80% went to bribes for Italian elected officials.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 And 15% to their mistresses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 but there is only a 30% chance of that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 ...and 10% on actual platform investment for a total of 105%. Perfect Chrysler math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Margin of error +/- 5%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 ...and since this inane post is about a Chrysler product....can a moderator please move it to it's rightful place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Ford could build a re-skinned US Falcon for a fraction of that cost, why would you even bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 ...and since this inane post is about a Chrysler product....can a moderator please move it to it's rightful place? "Inane" in your eyes- in my eyes it is a valid post given the fact that it is not a statement about a Chrysler product, but rather it is an opinion (note-OPINION) about an error on Ford's part. And if I had to bet, I would say my share count far exceeds yours-it IS about the money. And if Chrysler spent a BILLION on the 300/Charger, What did ford spend on the Flex? Pleaase move this back where it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 "Inane" in your eyes- in my eyes it is a valid post given the fact that it is not a statement about a Chrysler product, but rather it is an opinion (note-OPINION) about an error on Ford's part. And if I had to bet, I would say my share count far exceeds yours-it IS about the money. And if Chrysler spent a BILLION on the 300/Charger, What did ford spend on the Flex? Pleaase move this back where it was. An error that they didn't sell a vehicle on a new platform that would have been needed to be developed in order to produce it? It couldn't have been produced on D2C. Based on the now floundering sales of the LX vehicles (we'll see what the refreshes do...), would you really have had Ford invest the money required for an all-new platform?? From a shareholder's perspective, I would think you'd be concerned by that prospect. And I very much doubt Ford spent a billion dollars on the Flex. And I'm not moving it back. I left a placemarker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 This new Chrysler 300 costs.... $1 BILLION Dollars! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 "Inane" in your eyes- in my eyes it is a valid post given the fact that it is not a statement about a Chrysler product, but rather it is an opinion (note-OPINION) about an error on Ford's part. And if I had to bet, I would say my share count far exceeds yours-it IS about the money. And if Chrysler spent a BILLION on the 300/Charger, What did ford spend on the Flex? Pleaase move this back where it was. This post is right where it belongs, since it is all about the Chrysler LX chassis vehicles....you bemoan the loss of Panther and the delay (intended or otherwise) of a replacement for RWD applications when all the sales charts in the marketplace are pointing downward for large rear wheel driven sedans....but, nooooooooooo.....We want Ford to invest heavily into this segment so that the few remaining stalwarts to a dying sedan chassis layout can buy one......used of course since most everyone that is a fan of large rear wheel driven sedans that post their opinion here usually wait until they can buy one used to save $$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 This post is right where it belongs, since it is all about the Chrysler LX chassis vehicles....you bemoan the loss of Panther and the delay (intended or otherwise) of a replacement for RWD applications when all the sales charts in the marketplace are pointing downward for large rear wheel driven sedans....but, nooooooooooo.....We want Ford to invest heavily into this segment so that the few remaining stalwarts to a dying sedan chassis layout can buy one......used of course since most everyone that is a fan of large rear wheel driven sedans that post their opinion here usually wait until they can buy one used to save $$$. AGAIN-my post was not about Chrysler. Its about Ford putting all its eggs in one very similar basket. And don't give me more Panther Mafia BS. You talk about common platforms? Agree-platform/COMPONENT sharing is a must. But I'll make the case that a RWD platform would not have been as costly as you, "humble moderator" and other -I assume -degreed ME/MBAs contend. How about the Mustang powertrain? adapatable? How about Falcon components- adapatable? How many variations on the suv/crossover theme do we need-be they Ford or Lincoln badged? You guys represent anyone who thinks RWD has a place as shortsighted. Well I repeat, how many times did the Flex make the cover of Autoweek? You justify your position by saying Chrysler spent a billion on the 300? Who cares! My bet is Ford COULD have come up with a 4 door RWD platform had the will been there. Last point, What does Chrysler, BMW, Mercedes and Hyundai understand about various markets that Ford doesn't? My concern is Ford has put all its eggs in one basket- and yes I am concerned about the money. IMO the product slate is starting to blend in just a bit much. Flame away! PS- I packed it in at the end of May after 44 years in one industry. And as for buying used Panthers, the last used car I bought was when I was a freshman in college- excepting for my early Broncos and B model Macks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Okay, let's talk about component sharing between a 185" long 3400 lb Mustang and a 4200lb 200" long flagship RWD sedan. What can you share? Floorpan? No. Firewall? No. Front subframe & engine bay? No. Safety cage? No. Seat frames? No. Suspension components? No. Essentially the only things you can share between these two RWD vehicles are components that can be shared with almost all other products (electronics), or with the F150. A classic example of this is the bloated and misshapen Camaro. It's built on a full size sedan platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Also, the 300 didn't keep Chrysler out of Ch. 11, and the fiscal discipline of Ford-----which included taking a pass on vainglorious pursuits like the LX sedans-----kept Ford out of Ch. 11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford4v429 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 We want Ford to invest heavily into this segment so that the few remaining stalwarts to a dying sedan chassis layout can buy one......used of course since most everyone that is a fan of large rear wheel driven sedans that post their opinion here usually wait until they can buy one used to save $$$. I did just buy a used panther, and I hate the fact they are killing it...however, I dont think 'investing heavily' in the panthers was required...investing SOMETHING might have helped though. I'd have liked to have bought a new one, but one the Mustangs aint paid off yet, so I cheeped out and bought a ten year old one...once the 09 is paid off, it will be time to shop for another new 6 passenger vehicle, as the wifes 07 avalanche will be starting to get to the age where a cross country trip might be a little worrisome... whatever it will be, it wont be a FWD, and doubt if we'll buy another truck- so looks like it might not be a ford...the crown vic would have been first on the list of big family haulers. would have. now who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 .... it will be time to shop for another new 6 passenger vehicle, as the wifes 07 avalanche will be starting to get to the age where a cross country trip might be a little worrisome... whatever it will be, it wont be a FWD, and doubt if we'll buy another truck- so looks like it might not be a ford...the crown vic would have been first on the list of big family haulers. would have. now who knows. Ford has offerings that are six passenger, even one that can be had in rear drive.....Town Car anyone? Their other six passenger offering can be had in AWD.....Explorer, Flex, MKT.....I mean really, what sedan on the market today is available in rear drive other than a Town Car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 .....I mean really, what sedan on the market today is available in rear drive other than a Town Car? How about a slew of BMW's, Mercs, Hyundais- (you've heard of them), ugly 300 C's. Now you will all say.."but how much do THOSE cost-not a relevant comparison". but if I took the time, I would find all your posts that preach about the benefit of higher selling price! Check the box boys- you spin things as you see fit- And as 4v429 pointed out- you don't have to invest "heavily"- and I'm the first to admit, I don't have an advanced ME degree as for example Richard does, and don't have the apparent first hand mfg. .knowledge that he does, but I would say, Mustang drive line components and yes suspension components, could be engineered into a legitimate RWD platform. BMW and Mercedes are RWD builders- let's facer that. But Hyundai? They joined the RWD party when???? Oh and Richard, You are absolutely right-- the Camaro is an ugly, bloated large car platform-let's see is that a RWD or FWD platform?. And I'm sure the fact that it is outselling Mustang is an aberation that will be a one time phenom. once all the Bowtie fanatics slack their thirst -right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 And I'm sure the fact that it is outselling Mustang is an aberation that will be a one time phenom. once all the Bowtie fanatics slack their thirst -right? If history is any indicator... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 You guys represent anyone who thinks RWD has a place as shortsighted. Well I repeat, how many times did the Flex make the cover of Autoweek? You justify your position by saying Chrysler spent a billion on the 300? Who cares! My bet is Ford COULD have come up with a 4 door RWD platform had the will been there. How much profit does Chrysler get for that AutoWeek cover? Not a dime. What a stupid point. The Lincoln LS was MT COTY (AND RWD) yet they lost money on it because it was too expensive to build. You're confusing popularity with good business decisions. I don't think anyone here thinks RWD is bad. The panthers weren't bad because of RWD - they were bad in spite of it and there was no business case to continue with them. Ford had plans for a global RWD program but the cost was too high to justify the benefits (remember, Ford was almost bankrupt at the time). It made more sense to use the existing platforms. We're saying Ford made the right business decision and that it can't afford to cater to special interest groups or magazine editors because they don't buy many new cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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