Impressive showing for Ford in medium duty sales

[Joe771476]

As reported in Transport Topics mag: Class 7 for Dec 2010 - Daimler 1266 units; International 1259; Paccar (KW and Pete) 546; Ford 544. Hino sales were not given. Class 6 for Dec: International 702; Ford 683; Daimler 522. Now get these figures: Class 6 for the year: International 12966; Daimler 6680; Ford 5781; Hino 2325; Paccar 702. What happened to Hino?!

[ausrutherford]

As reported in Transport Topics mag: Class 7 for Dec 2010 - Daimler 1266 units; International 1259; Paccar (KW and Pete) 546; Ford 544. Hino sales were not given. Class 6 for Dec: International 702; Ford 683; Daimler 522. Now get these figures: Class 6 for the year: International 12966; Daimler 6680; Ford 5781; Hino 2325; Paccar 702. What happened to Hino?!

 

Does Ford only report Class 6?

[Bob Rosadini]

As reported in Transport Topics mag: Class 7 for Dec 2010 - Daimler 1266 units; International 1259; Paccar (KW and Pete) 546; Ford 544. Hino sales were not given. Class 6 for Dec: International 702; Ford 683; Daimler 522. Now get these figures: Class 6 for the year: International 12966; Daimler 6680; Ford 5781; Hino 2325; Paccar 702. What happened to Hino?!

Joe, What is even better is for the past few months, if you take the current month and annualize the sales, they always project out higher than the current YTD number. The bottom line continues to be, what are their intentions assuming Bluediamond disappears. I find it hard to believe if they stay in, they will ever be anything but a "cookie cutter" builder- A very limited number of options and nothing like the offerings of say F'liner, Navistar, or Paccar. Or nothing like the old KTP days. In the meantime, watching the noon news and there is a shot of a big Mass Turnpike Authority LT-9000 leaving the yard with big load of salt-ah the old days!

[goinbroke2]

Couple days ago two mint LTL-9000 tractors went screaming by me (I was going 120km's) and I seen Alberta plates on the trailers. Both black with the silver/red striping. Beautiful trucks, mint. (now if they only had lowboys with ford tractors hehe)

[Bob Rosadini]

Couple days ago two mint LTL-9000 tractors went screaming by me (I was going 120km's) and I seen Alberta plates on the trailers. Both black with the silver/red striping. Beautiful trucks, mint. (now if they only had lowboys with ford tractors hehe)

GB-2 There are plenty of them still running around. Went up to the attic the other day to dig out my old truck calendars-figured I might as well put some of them on the barn walls rather than have the kids throw them out when I croak! I have a 1987 Corporate Ford Truck Operations. December is a red LTL tractor pulling a log trailer-nothing "aero" about that big square grill! As for the Ford tractors, there are a bunch of 555's, 655's running around here this week making a lot of money moving snow. Like I said-the good ol days.

[7Mary3]

Good, at least a glimmer of hope. I hope that 650 and 750 sales improve to the point that Ford does something with these trucks, hopefully on their own or at least with another partner. The current 650 and 750 are uncompetitive, and I think they sell on price only. Since the medium market is very price-sensitive, it isn't as bad a situation as you might think. Nonetheless, the 650 and 750 suffer in comparison to other medium duty trucks. We just took delivery of a new M2 Freightliner, and the drivers really like it. Once I asked one of our drivers what he thought of our F-750's, and he said "Ford has no business building a truck that big". Of course, we know Ford didn't build it, but it still says 'Ford' on the grille.

[Bob Rosadini]

Good, at least a glimmer of hope. I hope that 650 and 750 sales improve to the point that Ford does something with these trucks, hopefully on their own or at least with another partner. The current 650 and 750 are uncompetitive, and I think they sell on price only. Since the medium market is very price-sensitive, it isn't as bad a situation as you might think. Nonetheless, the 650 and 750 suffer in comparison to other medium duty trucks. We just took delivery of a new M2 Freightliner, and the drivers really like it. Once I asked one of our drivers what he thought of our F-750's, and he said "Ford has no business building a truck that big". Of course, we know Ford didn't build it, but it still says 'Ford' on the grille.

Just out of curiosity-just what don't they like about them? And I have to say, I've never driven one but while my own instinct is--"its a pick up cab" I then say- so? An F-250 isn't comfortable?. Now as far as the M2 is concerned, it reminds me of the old Louisville- big almost vertical windshield, high seating position etc Which brings me to the thought of what GM did with their van cab. Looking at an E series the other day, it has a high glass area, and in turn could have a high seating position. With all the talk of platform sharing, while the current 650/750 shares the SD cab, would an E series based cab be a better alternative for class 6/7,baby 8?

[twintornados]

Good, at least a glimmer of hope. I hope that 650 and 750 sales improve to the point that Ford does something with these trucks, hopefully on their own or at least with another partner. The current 650 and 750 are uncompetitive, and I think they sell on price only. Since the medium market is very price-sensitive, it isn't as bad a situation as you might think. Nonetheless, the 650 and 750 suffer in comparison to other medium duty trucks. We just took delivery of a new M2 Freightliner, and the drivers really like it. Once I asked one of our drivers what he thought of our F-750's, and he said "Ford has no business building a truck that big". Of course, we know Ford didn't build it, but it still says 'Ford' on the grille.

Wonder if Ford could do a link up with Volvo Truck AB??

[7Mary3]

Just out of curiosity-just what don't they like about them? And I have to say, I've never driven one but while my own instinct is--"its a pick up cab" I then say- so? An F-250 isn't comfortable?. Now as far as the M2 is concerned, it reminds me of the old Louisville- big almost vertical windshield, high seating position etc Which brings me to the thought of what GM did with their van cab. Looking at an E series the other day, it has a high glass area, and in turn could have a high seating position. With all the talk of platform sharing, while the current 650/750 shares the SD cab, would an E series based cab be a better alternative for class 6/7,baby 8?

 

Some of the comments I get from the drivers are poor turning radius, poor front visibility (even with a sloping hood, you can't see nearly as close to your front bumper as you can in the Freightliner), excessive vibration and noise, air suspension seats useless because cab roof is too low (note to Ford- GM used to offer a raised roof option just for air seats on the 'pickup cab' 1990-2002 Topkick) instrument cluster poorly laid out (air gauge behind the steering wheel spoke if the driver is short) and of course no power. Some of the comments I get from the mechanics are poor engine accessibility (they always say that, many newer mediums are tough to service these days) have to remove step to access batteries, lots of electrical issues (3 fuse boxes, and 1 of them is near the rear axle?) cheap interior parts and seats, service literature/data is not as good as it should be, and difficulty getting parts (basically they say the parts countermen have trouble identifying the correct part, and sometimes it takes quite a while to get parts that have to be ordered). I would say downtime is higher on the Fords than Freightliner and International. I don't have enough GM mediums to conclusively compare downtime to the Ford mediums.

 

Yes, I think using a van based cab as GM did would probably improve some of the 650 and 750 shortcomings. But, I would hate to see Ford make the same mistake GM did and use a large cab on the 450 and 550.

Edited February 5, 2011 by 7Mary3

[7Mary3]

Wonder if Ford could do a link up with Volvo Truck AB??

 

Don't see that happening. Volvo Truck AB never had anything to do with Ford in the past, and they seem to have no desire to go into medium duty (though Mack was active in mediums years back with help from Renault). There were rumors that GM talked with Volvo Truck AB about mediums. It might have made some sense because many GM medium dealers also sell Volvo heavy trucks, from back in the days of WhiteGMC.

[Bob Rosadini]

Some of the comments I get from the drivers are poor turning radius, poor front visibility (even with a sloping hood, you can't see nearly as close to your front bumper as you can in the Freightliner), excessive vibration and noise, air suspension seats useless because cab roof is too low (note to Ford- GM used to offer a raised roof option just for air seats on the 'pickup cab' 1990-2002 Topkick) instrument cluster poorly laid out (air gauge behind the steering wheel spoke if the driver is short) and of course no power. Some of the comments I get from the mechanics are poor engine accessibility (they always say that, many newer mediums are tough to service these days) have to remove step to access batteries, lots of electrical issues (3 fuse boxes, and 1 of them is near the rear axle?) cheap interior parts and seats, service literature/data is not as good as it should be, and difficulty getting parts (basically they say the parts countermen have trouble identifying the correct part, and sometimes it takes quite a while to get parts that have to be ordered). I would say downtime is higher on the Fords than Freightliner and International. I don't have enough GM mediums to conclusively compare downtime to the Ford mediums.

 

Yes, I think using a van based cab as GM did would probably improve some of the 650 and 750 shortcomings. But, I would hate to see Ford make the same mistake GM did and use a large cab on the 450 and 550.

Good info-as for the raised roof, remember Ford did this in the final years of the old F-800,950,1000,1100 from 68 until the end of that truck in 70 when the Louisville came out. As for them using the E series cab on 450/550, I would doubt that would happen. 450 and 550 work fine with what they have. IF they did use the E series they would get the benefits of commonality of components with E series and the new class 6,7,8. Granted, looking at current 6/7 sales figures its not a huge kick but then again, I look at Hino, UD, and Isuzu and say, '''economy of scale?" If they can make it work, ford sure as hell should be able to. And granted UD and Isuzu have foreign volumes that support the US versions, I don't think the Hino does.

[lfeg]

I see Cat is going to intro their vocational truck at CONEXPO [catvocational]

Also, I have now seen the latest press released on the International TerraStar. I think the initial buyers will be construction fleets that are already mostly International - now they can have International class 4/5 service trucks. Couple of items on this - 6.4 V8 is called the MaxForce 7 V8, has a CGI block, and does not use Urea.

[Joe771476]

Ifeg stole my thunder but I just saw in a school bus mag an ad for a small Class A bus body (like you'd see on an E-series) on an International cab/chassis. Saw a TV ad for Duracell batteries celebrating volunteer firefighters and lo and behold I caught a glimpse of a C-series fire truck in the background! Hey Bob and 7Mary, remember Ford put a C-series cab high up and called it an H-series line haul tractor? They had to fill the wheel housing opening with sheet metal! It was tacky to say the least! What was the next generation OTR cabover........the W series? They crashed one into some glass building in some movie many years ago.

[7Mary3]

Yeah, I remember the H series. A raised up C series cab on a diesel N series chassis. Commonly referred to by drivers at the time as a 'Two Story Falcon', and that was not a complement! In the running for the worst class 8 tractor ever built, it did look neat and Ford learned a lot from them. The W series, which replaced the H, was a far better truck.

[Mark B. Morrow]

Yeah, I remember the H series. A raised up C series cab on a diesel N series chassis. Commonly referred to by drivers at the time as a 'Two Story Falcon', and that was not a complement! In the running for the worst class 8 tractor ever built, it did look neat and Ford learned a lot from them. The W series, which replaced the H, was a far better truck.

 

 

I always liked the look of the H-Series. What was so bad about them compared to others of the same time?

[Bob Rosadini]

I always liked the look of the H-Series. What was so bad about them compared to others of the same time?

I think one of the biggest knocks was they were a rust bucket-then again back in the early 60's what wasn't. But I think they were as cost cutter at the time- I think one of the biggest freight outfits that used them was Branch Motor express thst was an eastern carrier. A buddy of mine has a single axle that is in nice shape- dark blue, 220 Cummins. If you have the ATHS Syracuse Show book-I think 2003?- its in there.

 

I agree with s7M- they did learn- the W took its place- that was all flat steel like the White 7400 and Dodge L and then in later versions they put the Louisville grille on it. that was the one ("Blue Mule") that Jan Vincent drove through the "bad guys" building. that was followed by the CL series which was an aluminum cab version. THAT was a high cab- I heard a driver comment one time on the radio that was.."the closest to Heaven I'll ever get".

[7Mary3]

I always liked the look of the H-Series. What was so bad about them compared to others of the same time?

 

As Bob said, rust was a major issue. Though the basic cab looked like a C series, the floor was completely different and was very prone to rusting. There was a long discussion about the H on the ATHS forum a few years ago, and you should have heard the old timers going on about the H. Repeated crossmember cracking, the cab roofs would split where the sleeper was attached, poor heater, hard to get in and out of. But, it was obvious the H was a 'quick and dirty' attempt, and

the good thing was that it was profitable enough for Ford to continue in that market. And, it was a neat looking truck.

 

BTW- the W cab came in steel or aluminum. Most of the few survivors have aluminum cabs. The steel cabs on the W also liked to rust!

Edited February 15, 2011 by 7Mary3

[lfeg]

In an ad from Mack I just saw, they have this line...

"Built to move you forward even in reverse. With the Industries only shiftable, multi-speed reverse transmission..."

 

OK, I guess it is a feature some might find useful.

[Mark B. Morrow]

As Bob said, rust was a major issue. Though the basic cab looked like a C series, the floor was completely different and was very prone to rusting. There was a long discussion about the H on the ATHS forum a few years ago, and you should have heard the old timers going on about the H. Repeated crossmember cracking, the cab roofs would split where the sleeper was attached, poor heater, hard to get in and out of. But, it was obvious the H was a 'quick and dirty' attempt, and

the good thing was that it was profitable enough for Ford to continue in that market. And, it was a neat looking truck.

 

BTW- the W cab came in steel or aluminum. Most of the few survivors have aluminum cabs. The steel cabs on the W also liked to rust!

 

 

If I remember correctly, Budd built the bodies for the Ford C and H and a Mack version of the C Cab as well. The Mack models used quad headlights in place of Ford's usual single units (some Fords had quads as well) and were often outfitted as Firefighting equipment

Edited February 18, 2011 by Mark B. Morrow

[Mark B. Morrow]

Here's a Two Story Falcon and a link to some cool truck pics.

 

The space under the wheel arches on the C Cab was used for storage.

 

It does look like a real bitch to get in and out of one.

 

 

http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/ford.htm

Edited February 18, 2011 by Mark B. Morrow

[7Mary3]

Sometimes the C series cab was called the 'Budd cab'. Budd made a lots of truck cabs for many manufacturers, including some GMC's. Ford designed the C series cab and paid for the tooling. The Mack N series cab only used some Ford C series cab outer panels, the floor was completely different. The N used Mack diesels, and had a doghouse to clear a large 6 cylinder diesel. Naturally the chassis was different too. The Mack N was a heavy truck, most of the Ford C's were medium duty.

[Mark B. Morrow]

Sometimes the C series cab was called the 'Budd cab'. Budd made a lots of truck cabs for many manufacturers, including some GMC's. Ford designed the C series cab and paid for the tooling. The Mack N series cab only used some Ford C series cab outer panels, the floor was completely different. The N used Mack diesels, and had a doghouse to clear a large 6 cylinder diesel. Naturally the chassis was different too. The Mack N was a heavy truck, most of the Ford C's were medium duty.

 

 

Thanks. That's interesting. I remember seeing the Macks when I was a kid and thinking Ford owned Mack.

[Edstock]

The N used Mack diesels

Gold bulldog on the hood?

[Bob Rosadini]

Gold bulldog on the hood?

Edstock,

No gold Bulldog. I don't think Mack ever offered the Maxidyne in the N. In fact, I think the N was gone and replaced by the MB when the Maxidyne was introduced. The gold dog signified the truck had a Maxidyne engine. The Maxidyne came out in 66 and was an engine that developed big torque at like 1200 RPM and up. Conventional diesels had an rpm ban of roughly 1700-2100 RPM. With a Maxidyne you lugged it down to 1200. On highway versions used a 5 speed while off road construction trucks had a two stick with a low hole giving you six forward speeds. IMO, at 237 HP it was a bullet proof engine that gave good power, long life and good economy. Some "experts" will tell you the gold dog signified a 100% Mack power train. Not true-while the Maxidyne/Maxitorque trans was 100% Mack. Most "silver" bulldogs also had 100% Mack power trains in those days. I own a 56 B-61X which is a big heavy single axle. In 79 the guy I bought it from put a true Maxidyne in it and left the 10speed Duplex trans in it. Kind of a "unique" combination- he also changed the dog to gold!

[Bob Rosadini]

In an ad from Mack I just saw, they have this line...

"Built to move you forward even in reverse. With the Industries only shiftable, multi-speed reverse transmission..."

 

OK, I guess it is a feature some might find useful.

Very useful in construction and particular in paving operations. Ever see on an interstate repaving operation? One lane is shut down and there is line of dumptrucks ahead of the paver Or transfer buggy which is a device that can basically take a dump truck load and remix the asphalt for QC reasons before it gets dumped into the hopper of the paver. With a low speed axle ratio you don't want to be backing up 1000 feet with a low-low ratio!