twintornados Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) T-Stags' orgasm link I hope he bought some stock to go with that enthusiasm....meanwhile, I still believe that Ford did the right thing by getting rid of JLR (and others) Ford does not have to financial resources to give JLR the attention it deserves without taking away from the core Ford and Lincoln brands. Edited February 14, 2011 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Welcome to the joys of JLR ownership, Tata. Enjoy profits during the years when you don't have to invest heavily in new models, and losses in the years that you do (cf. narrow profit in fiscal 2010, heavy loss in fiscal 2009, and more or less offsetting gains for fiscal 2011, before a new round of expensive product launches in 2012). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I find it funny how everytime Ford sells a company, some of their best products come out, XC60, S60, XF, XJ, (new entry Jag), etc. I do agree Ford couldn't Focus on all the above but when it does come time to redesign these above vehicles, those companies will be bleeding like a Hemophiliac Royal Family member.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 The simple fact is, Ford never should have bought Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover, or Volvo....this was profit spending on these marques at the expense of the Ford brands because some of the "higher ups" at Ford could not bring themselves to be chauffeured in "just" a Lincoln....profits that should have been poured back into development of FoMoCo products instead of squandered on excesses such as these. I am glad that the new owners are finding success with these respective brands....I don't believe any executive in Dearborn HQ would have hoped otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Let's see how many models L-R can create. IMHO, the Tata gang are making a mistake in trying to do a 3-series Jag entry; sure am glad Ford doesn't have to pay for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 In the word's of Margaret Thatcher 'you ain't seen nothin yet'. Got to remind you that these profits are coming as JLR invest in at least 6 new models at present and advanced hybrid tech. JLR is the only global premium car maker now capable of taking on Germany's brightest and best in every single market. And Ford sold it..... Not only that but this is one of the fastest growing premium car companies globally and more importantly in China and Russia. Last year Land Rover sold 40,000 cars in China, without making a single car in China. Taxes in China are immense. That is a significant achievement. They are currently setting up a JV to make cars in China. Once they do that JLR could become China's most successful premium brand within a matter of a few years because Land Rover is highly revered over there in the land where 4x4's are king. Ford did not have to sell JLR to rescue itself. It would have been more sensible to sell Volvo, Aston Martin and the stake in Mazda. And also shut both Lincoln and Mercury. But I guess keeping Lincoln is a matter of heart ruling head.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) In the word's of Margaret Thatcher 'you ain't seen nothin yet'. Got to remind you that these profits are coming as JLR invest in at least 6 new models at present and advanced hybrid tech. JLR is the only global premium car maker now capable of taking on Germany's brightest and best in every single market. And Ford sold it..... Not only that but this is one of the fastest growing premium car companies globally and more importantly in China and Russia. Last year Land Rover sold 40,000 cars in China, without making a single car in China. Taxes in China are immense. That is a significant achievement. They are currently setting up a JV to make cars in China. Once they do that JLR could become China's most successful premium brand within a matter of a few years because Land Rover is highly revered over there in the land where 4x4's are king. Ford did not have to sell JLR to rescue itself. It would have been more sensible to sell Volvo, Aston Martin and the stake in Mazda. And also shut both Lincoln and Mercury. But I guess keeping Lincoln is a matter of heart ruling head....something along the lines of the stunning XF with a sophisticated twin turbo sound interesting? I will start brining the crow TStag....watch Lincoln, right now they are stop-gapping...rumours are ( and yes they are rumours, but probably are most like ly to see fruition before hybrid LR's ) theres some game changers right around the corner....my bet....they may giveJag a run for their money in the Luxo market.... Edited February 16, 2011 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Uh, that was Bachman Turner Overdrive, not Margaret Thatcher. Also, JLR isn't booking expenses right now. Those expenses will be booked at launch. Trust me. It's same old same old boom/bust with JLR. It's not like Tata came up with some magic formula for fixing JLR's systemic issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Uh, that was Bachman Turner Overdrive, not Margaret Thatcher. Also, JLR isn't booking expenses right now. Those expenses will be booked at launch. Trust me. It's same old same old boom/bust with JLR. It's not like Tata came up with some magic formula for fixing JLR's systemic issues. Well said. All of JLR's sucuess is due to Ford's efforts, and Ford still chose to get rid of them despite knowing the current round of product is coming out. This is a sign of Ford's confidence in this company. I don't think Tata will continue to have it flourish when the current product's shelf life is over and new product is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 .....JLR is the only global premium car maker now capable of taking on Germany's brightest and best in every single market. And Ford sold it..... Thank god....TStag...I am glad you are happy, but you and I both know that Ford did the right thing by selling it. Now JLR can develop without the "shackles" of having to be paired with common chassis....they can do things and build things without interference from a Motor Car Company parent....Tata has JLR as their crown jewel and they will flourish a lot of cash on it to make it special....Ford could never justify doing that. Ford is glad that Tata will invest in JLR, because to play in the arena that JLR must play in, it will take a boat load of cash.....cash that Ford needs for the continued investment in Ford cars and trucks and the Lincoln line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 they will flourish a lot of cash on it to make it special That's not a good business practice. JLR wanted Ford to treat them like royalty. But that's bad business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 That's not a good business practice. JLR wanted Ford to treat them like royalty. But that's bad business. I agree 100% Richard, and it proves the point on why Ford needed to unload JLR....to keep them "relevant" in the arena that JLR must compete in, they will need a lot of that "soaring profit" that Tata is enjoying.....but sooner or later, the Tata line of cars, SUVs and trucks will suffer due to heavy investment into JLR and then Tata Motors will have to tap into the "mothership" for more $$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Without J/LR and Volvo, Ford managed a $20 billion turnaround in fortunes in a subdued 2010 market, why the hell would they ever regret getting rid of a millstone like the PAG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Looking forward to the new Evoque, new Hybrid Range Rover (within 2 years), new mid size Range Rover, new Rolls Royce competing Range Rover, new Jaguar CUV, new baby Jaguar, new Jaguar sports car...... all currently entering or in development.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Looking forward to the new Evoque, new Hybrid Range Rover (within 2 years), new mid size Range Rover, new Rolls Royce competing Range Rover, new Jaguar CUV, new baby Jaguar, new Jaguar sports car...... all currently entering or in development.... But of all those, only the mid size RR, Hybrid, and Jag sports car sound like they have a chance to be a hit in the market. Evoque, (because it's a 2 dr), R rolls Royce Range Rover, and baby Jag (they did try this with the X type) look like they will fail. (of course I'm no automotive CEO, so who knows?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 Looking forward to the new Evoque, new Hybrid Range Rover (within 2 years), new mid size Range Rover, new Rolls Royce competing Range Rover, new Jaguar CUV, new baby Jaguar, new Jaguar sports car...... all currently entering or in development.... And which one will you trade in your Vauxhall on?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Car Examiner Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I find it funny how everytime Ford sells a company, some of their best products come out, XC60, S60, XF, XJ, (new entry Jag), etc. I do agree Ford couldn't Focus on all the above but when it does come time to redesign these above vehicles, those companies will be bleeding like a Hemophiliac Royal Family member.... It's not just Ford who did that -- look at GM and Saab. The brand's first new products since 2003 -- 9-5 and 9-4X -- are now coming out, all courtesy of GM's product development dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 It's not just Ford who did that -- look at GM and Saab. The brand's first new products since 2003 -- 9-5 and 9-4X -- are now coming out, all courtesy of GM's product development dollars. But for the product waiting in the wings, JLR would have been worthless. TATA's challenge will be to follow up on the current line in a few years. This is Chrysler's current problem with the 300 and Sebring/200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Of the PAG group, only Volvo really seems to have made sense. They provided Ford with the P2 chasis which became the D3, Ford got a LOT of safety tech from them (or at least the right to use them), and, in return, Volvo got a modern small car architecture (C1-C2) to replace their mitsubishi sourced S40/V30 products with and an architecture to base their mid-sized crossover and sedan from. then, when it was time to sell, Ford also got a decent chunk of change for them. Jag, LR and AM were all money pits for Ford. Even if Ford had retained them, there was a lot of expensive development and launch support that they all needed over the last two years. That's all Tata has dumped into them since purchasing them. Looking forward, given the success rate that the brands have had with their products over the years, only two of those new products will be commercial successes. Two others will break even. The rest will likely not even recoup their investments. Meaning, while they might make some quarter to quarter profits, it's on the back of huge investment expenses that have been incurred, and others that are still needed going forward. As for China, EVERY auto manufacturer is expecting to make it big there. If you believed all of the market share gain and volume increase claims that they are all making, every man, woman and child in China will have two cars to their name in 5 years if the domestic producers don't expand their own production at all! Lets face it, the Chinese economy can only grow so fast, and still remains linked to the rest of the world's economies. As global product demand continues to be stagnate, what's going to fuel China's continued growth? Their workers still earn crummy wages, making it difficult for them to purchase a lot domestically. As global austerity measures sink in, and global unemployment doesn't come down quickly enough, people's savings, unemployment benifits, and government support plans will dry up, further reducing global demand for their goods. China can not sustain their current growth rate for very much longer unless the global economy really catches fire somehow. This will serve to limit their car market's growth in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 "new Rolls Royce competing Range Rover" What a fabulous idea! I sure hope L-R spends zillions on it! BMW must be laughing hysterically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEREKC Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Ford has had to make big and important strategic decisions in regards to the brands that it owns and produces. They did not have the luxury of being given $60 Billion dollars + having their debt canceled like other car companies. I think they have done a great job, and should be rewarded for their efforts by the public and government! The government should offer them extra tax incentives for a limited time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Need to add catagory to the POLL "never should have bought those S..t companies in the first place" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Need to add catagory to the POLL "never should have bought those S..t companies in the first place" Volvo was bled white supporting Jaguar and Land Rover, in the end it was going to cost too much to revitalize them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vista Blur Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 These cars were always out of my league but I can say I felt better about their image and quality when they were Ford owned. I don't think very highly of Tata or its cars, hopefully when it comes time to refresh these cars corners are not cut, because I highly doubt the Tata execs have any clue what kind of cash it takes to truly fund companies such as these. Still I am glad that Ford let them go, I feel its better for their brands as a whole. Lincoln especially since I always felt it took too much of a back seat when compared to Cadillac, Lexus, and BMW. Hopefully with these ultra high end brands out from Fords umbrella Lincoln can be brought up to the standards I think it should have (making some progress btw) as I would love to see Lincoln compete with the CTS V, BMW M3 on the sport side while making something that can challenge the BMW 7 series for all out luxury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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