Biker16 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I have the same complaints about he D3 Taurus and MKS, the footwells are too short which is made worse now that they chopped the roof down. The Explorer is much better but the footwell is again unusually cramped for a vehicle of its size, same with the passenger side. Not sure why these platforms have this issue, but I have a feeling it's a fatal flaw for many consumers since I constantly hear about it from people who sat in the car (my boss didn't buy the Explorer because of this). The CD3/S car have TONS of leg-room...you have a freakishly long inseam to use up the room you have in those cars the D3's firewall and cowl are structural unlike the C1 or EUCD freestyle notice how the upper frame rails are directly beneath the skin of the fender in the Free style. while the focus has it deeper within the structure. This matter because in frontal collisions the upper longitudinal rails direct crash energy to the A-pillars and to the roof. to move them requires a complete redesign of the frontal structure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) And this is the cultural issue Ford global misses, European drivers love the wrap around cockpit feel but a lot of American drivers despise it and feel claustrophobic, that little bit of extra space is why a lot of US buyers prefer their vehicles to be a size or two up on their Euro counterparts... Not saying Fiesta or Focus are bad cars, I just feel that Ford NA is being overly influenced by Euro trends and data I don't see wrap around cockpit designs to be a cultural thing but a sporting thing. Car interior designers around the world if asked how do you design an interior to say it is sporty, they would most likely talk about creating a sporty feeling for the driver, which in sporty cars is generally a sculpted cockpit type environment, with the low seat position, etc. To give a sense of being tucked in so you do not flop and slide around when driving sporty. Obvious Ford wants the new Focus to come across as a sporty vehicle, hence the cock pit styled drivers area. And same reason the redesigned Ford Taurus went this route, and used some of the Mustang interior DNA and I believe the Thunderbird had this sporty cock pit like design. Google Ford's Lon Zaback, Design Manager, Interior of the 2010 Taurus, he is good young American lad, who felt to make the new Taurus come across as a sporty vehicle to drive he went the cock pit route, and Mustang like dash design. Edited May 12, 2011 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 notice how the upper frame rails are directly beneath the skin of the fender in the Free style That may have changed in '08, when Ford redid the D3 front end. I wonder if they didn't go with Focus style frame rails as a means of attaching the engine to the body not the subframe. From what I recall, this was an expensive undertaking.... One of the most significant changes is how the engine is mounted in the vehicle. The engine was previously mounted to the front subframe. On the 2008 Taurus, the engine and transmission are bolted to the body with hydraulic mounts to reduce vibration. By moving the roughly 600-pound powerpack off the subframe, engineers were able to better tune the suspension and, ultimately, create an even better ride. https://www.fleet.ford.com/2008_taurus.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Do you also blame FOE for the new Taurus cockpit design as well? I am not being critical of the car, just pointing out that American prefer slightly larger vehicles, the wrap around is something I like but feel that a lot of American buyers tend to view that style as taking away internal room, I maybe right or wrong with that ...it's just my opinion. So can we please move on without everyone derailing the thread because of what I said....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 That may have changed in '08, when Ford redid the D3 front end. I wonder if they didn't go with Focus style frame rails as a means of attaching the engine to the body not the subframe. From what I recall, this was an expensive undertaking.... https://www.fleet.fo...2008_taurus.asp the change was made to use the NOw standard TRA mounts introduced on the 1998 ford fiesta, the powerpack hangs from the body from two mounts on the axis of the engine. instead of the engines mass being supported by the engine cradle, it hangs like pendulum, with the engine vibrations dampened by the powerpack's mass, there is a third mount connected to the subframe to counter the engine's every FWD ford uses this mount today. its cheap and effective. then only caviat is that the engine and transalxe must be connected extremely well, the stiffer the connection the better the NVH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 the change was made to use the NOw standard TRA mounts introduced on the 1998 ford fiesta Are you sure that was the first use? Pretty sure my DN101 has that setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theDuff Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Are you sure that was the first use? Pretty sure my DN101 has that setup. Nah. They're mounted to the subframe. It does have a roll restrictor mounted to the strut tower though. Not sure what "TRA" means, but the Escort has had its powerpack hung from the body since, at least, 1991. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Nah. They're mounted to the subframe. It does have a roll restrictor mounted to the strut tower though. Oh? That's what that is? Learn something new every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Not sure what "TRA" means, but the Escort has had its powerpack hung from the body since, at least, 1991. But that was a modified Mazda 323 platform IIRC.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theDuff Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 But that was a modified Mazda 323 platform IIRC.... Protege'? Or is that the same thing? I was just contesting that the '98 Fiesta was not the first vehicle to have this, unless TRA means something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Protege'? Or is that the same thing? I think it went 323, Protege then just 3 in the Mazda lineup LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) Suck on this know it alls: [Edmunds] Ken Czubay, Fords vice president of U.S. sales and marketing, said, "Obviously, the market has shifted. Its the first month for our new Focus, and dealers were selling them right off the convoy trucks." "Ford has been able to sell its year-old Fiesta, and its new 2012 Focus, at a breathless clip. Fiesta transaction prices are the highest of any vehicle in its segment, Pipas said, and the model sold more than 9,000 units for the second month in a row. Focus experienced a ramp-up month during April, Czubay said. Availability will continue to be lean because the producdt is in such high demand" "Combined, Fiesta and Focus with the new version still in limited supply accounted for 15 percent of Fords retail sales in April, six percentage points higher than realized by Fiesta and the previous version of Focus a year ago " So the idea that Ford has to have completely separate car designs for each market? BS Edited May 12, 2011 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 But that was a modified Mazda 323 platform IIRC.... Mazda 626 sold in the late 1980s to early 1990s had hydraulic engine dampener. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Suck on this know it alls: [Edmunds] So the idea that Ford has to have completely separate car designs for each market? BS I agree but as last years Fiesta debacle proves, Ford didn't anticipate the number of buyers wanting specific options like leather trim, instant 5-6 week wait id you wanted that back then.. Tom, how many new Focus are you seeing in your area and are they mostly high series? I'm asking because I've heard stories that Ford can't keep up with the more expensive models, completely opposite to press expectations and great news vindicating ONE FOCUS. btw, Australia gets the new version in August imported from Europe until Thailand comes on line early next year... So we will all be getting very similar cars on the one aligned product platform cycle, makes a great change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calypsocoral Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I like the beer analogy-- especially Bell's and Founder's, two of my favorites. I'm also glad to see the Focus come out on top. There's room for improvement, but I think Ford deserves a lot of credit for this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 the escort did not use that mounting system notice the cradle beneath the engine supports two mounts one rear and one forward and a anti, roll mount connected to the body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I agree but as last years Fiesta debacle proves, Ford didn't anticipate the number of buyers wanting specific options like leather trim, instant 5-6 week wait id you wanted that back then.. Tom, how many new Focus are you seeing in your area and are they mostly high series? I'm asking because I've heard stories that Ford can't keep up with the more expensive models, completely opposite to press expectations and great news vindicating ONE FOCUS. keep in mind dealer order cars, not ford. for has some control, but dealers order what they think they can sell. If it were your money you were risking by ordering a car that the market will not buy, you too would be conservative in what you ordered. I think the dealers have been convinced for the most part, to order more high end small cars, because the demand for them is so high they are ordering high end models that increase thier ASP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 keep in mind dealer order cars, not ford. for has some control, but dealers order what they think they can sell. If it were your money you were risking by ordering a car that the market will not buy, you too would be conservative in what you ordered. I think the dealers have been convinced for the most part, to order more high end small cars, because the demand for them is so high they are ordering high end models that increase thier ASP. exactly, our mix is zero'ed in on SELS and SE's with the Sports package...reason for the sport package? Cast Alum wheels and 4 wheel discs for an $1100 bump and they replace HUBCAPS! Only 1 Titanium ordered, we want to observe take % before we raise our flooring costs on vehicles with a peotential to sit longer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theDuff Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 the escort did not use that mounting system notice the cradle beneath the engine supports two mounts one rear and one forward and a anti, roll mount connected to the body. You got it backwards. The only mount you can see in that picture is actually the roll restrictor. The other two are beneath the battery and to the left (in that picture) of the timing belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 exactly, our mix is zero'ed in on SELS and SE's with the Sports package...reason for the sport package? Cast Alum wheels and 4 wheel discs for an $1100 bump and they replace HUBCAPS! Only 1 Titanium ordered, we want to observe take % before we raise our flooring costs on vehicles with a peotential to sit longer I would bet the customer orders are highly skewed towards SEL and TITs (titatiums). the S focus sell to those who think the fiesta is too small. I am pissed I cannot get a 5 speed in the Titanium, there is only a $2500 difference between a auto TITs and manual SE Sport with moon, winter and 17in wheels. I'd would love to pay $2500 more for a TITs with a MFT, dual climate control, lighted mirrors, better seats and alot of other cool shit, only $2500 more. FOrd take my money and give me a manual. I want a 6speed manual as a no-cost option on the Titanium Focus!!!!!!! I will pay $2500 more if you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 If you pay $2500 more, it's not exactly a no cost option. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) I see what you mean, you're still paying greenmail (Titanium) to get what you want, the 6-speed manual. Meh, Ford may offer manual or auto if the buyer interest is there, a bit soon to tell yet. Edited May 13, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 If you pay $2500 more, it's not exactly a no cost option. I have to settle for the SE sport, for 2500 less than the titnium with the Automatic, I am more than willing to give for the an extra 2500 for the titanium with a Manual. The same price as the automatic Tits. I have the money, ford please take my money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 I know you keep trying, but I don't think tits is going to take off as an accepted abbreviation for Titanium. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) I know you keep trying, but I don't think tits is going to take off as an accepted abbreviation for Titanium. Especially not if they're automatic :-o Edited May 14, 2011 by Noah Harbinger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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