RichardJensen Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 The systemic problem Let's say you have appendicitis from an infection and then you fall down and break your arm. Does this indicate that you have a 'systemic problem'? When issues are as far differentiated as they are in the Mustang and MFT issues------where one issue is directly related to the initial supplier choice where the other is almost certainly related to manufacturing defects, you are not dealing with a 'systemic' issue. You are dealing with very different problems that are similar only in that they impact customers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 For the Fiesta, they have tried many things, from reprogramming the software, to making sure electrical grounds are working. They haven't solved the problems! There are still outstanding issues and customers whose cars are not fixed even after replacing transmissions multiple times and applying both TSBs. Honestly, I feel that this is a driver abuse issue (driving too slow, etc), but that is what American automatic drivers want to do, so this is a fairly difficult problem to solve. The Mustang manual and the 6F35 also have ongoing problems that are creating headaches for many people who have heard Ford was becoming more reliable and took the chance and bought a Ford product. If you have a friend whose primary concern in buying a new vehicle is dependability and fuel economy (as a lot of americans are) and wants to use the vehicle as an appliance, doesn't care about driving dynamics, power, would you seriously recommend a Focus over a Civic? I am a Ford fan and I want to tell people to buy Fords, but these issues make it really difficult for me to do that. They haven't solved the problems! Evidence/link? Hell yes I'd pick a Focus over a Civic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) If they tested MFT for one more year "To the man with a hammer, every problem appears to be a nail." Not every problem can be remedied by "more testing". The problem with MFT wasn't the development timeframe, it was the company hired to do the development. And I'm not going to argue this with you. There's nothing to argue. Edited June 25, 2011 by RichardJensen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Excellent effort by Ford Service. This isn't being ignored, like the old 3.8 problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) Well, that would have been Fords problem if the release of those vehicles were so dependent upon MFT being pushed out too soon. And I'm familiar with glitches, I'm in programming (since 2000), loading patches and diagnosing our system issues and I totally understand what you speak of. Now whose to say people wouldn't buy these Explorer's, Focus's and various other vehicles had MFT not been available at release? Sure people are now opting for it because it's available, but how many people specifically purchased that vehicle because of MFT? I'd venture to say an extremely small population. The rest simply got it because it was part of the package and as a "look at what I got" option. There was a deadline, and it had to be met. There is A LOT involved with pushing back a launch, or pushing back a feature, especially one as integrated as MFT. Suppliers are expecting x number of switches, and if you eliminate MFT, how many more switches do you need to make to account for no touch screen? software for mission critical applications such as vehicular software should have very different standards of quality control. MFT is NOT mission critical! Sheesh! of course it doesn't help that most software engineers are dumbasses who all want to be on the bleeding edge and don't have any respect for the value of QA, but this needs to change and Ford should have rejected MFT in its current implementation. And just exactly how many software engineers do you know? Most that I know (remember, I am in the software development business) care more about pleasing customers than anything else. Sometimes, pleasing customers means you have to be on the bleeding edge, and many customers want to have the 'latest and greatest'! Trust me, if we don't please customers, we go out of business. Word of mouth travels quickly. Most customers do understand that software is not perfect with rev 1, and rev 1.1 quickly follows with bug fixes, and 1.2 shortly after that. It's the way of life! Unless they lock the system out while the vehicle is in motion, it is mission critical. A MFT malfunction could cause enough driver distraction to induce an accident. Then said driver shouldn't be driving. Car manufacturers have the responsibility to design systems that do not encourage distracted driving. It seems that Ford didn't get the memo. That is what the voice recognition of MFT is for...so you don't have to take your eyes off the road and be distracted. Edited June 25, 2011 by fordmantpw 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 If you have a friend whose primary concern in buying a new vehicle is dependability and fuel economy (as a lot of americans are) and wants to use the vehicle as an appliance, doesn't care about driving dynamics, power, would you seriously recommend a Focus over a Civic? No. Not in the U.S. market, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 There are vehicles not equipped with MFT. Change product mix. Negotiate with suppliers. It might be costly, but its better than wasting 5 years of good work and ruining your reputation. There is NOTHING inherently wrong with MFT that can't be fixed. As for it being a distraction, why not take out radios or HVAC controls...how about Manual transmissions since you have a hard on for Ford Transmissions...how about we make the cars drive themselves :rolleyes: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 how about we make the cars drive themselves HAVEit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGtZ0h05ATc&feature=channel_video_title Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 take it out until its fixed. deadlines that don't work shouldn't be enforced. Ford can't stop on a dime and not produce something without seriously screwing up other things...its not like it doesn't work at all... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 of course now is too late, im saying that before they make a decision to release stuff they should have tested it thoroughly at first. It was thoroughly tested you idiot. At one point they had 1500 bugs! The problem wasn't lack of testing - it was so screwed up that there wasn't enough time to fix it. They KNEW it was bad but made a conscious decision to go ahead with it, hoping the problems could be fixed quickly. They lost the bet and they took a hit for it. Once it's fixed (which I hear will be next month) then nobody will remember the problems. The fact that consumers are having problems understanding how to use it and are complaining about it is evidenced by numerous reports including CR and by the fact that Ford is giving dealers extra money to train buyers. That is a fact. That's all we're saying - at least some of the problems in the survey are caused by consumers either unwilling or unable to comprehend the system and how it works. I don't recall anyone here saying that was the ENTIRE reason for the drop. We're trying to be fair about it and give blame where it's deserved - to both Ford and some to consumers. It's the negatards that want to blame it all on Ford and that's just not accurate or fair. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twmalonehunter Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 deciding to release something with that many bugs is not only stupid but also irresponsible. RJ, can you please turn off this broken record for awhile. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) take it out until its fixed. deadlines that don't work shouldn't be enforced. Didn't we already explain why that wasn't possible? deciding to release something with that many bugs is not only stupid but also irresponsible. Says the troll with no experience in either software or automobile development nor any common sense about how things work in the real world. RJ, can you please turn off this broken record for awhile. Amen to that! Edited June 25, 2011 by fordmantpw 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 deciding to release something with that many bugs is not only stupid but also irresponsible. Happens every day. It's always a trade-off between delaying a product and fixing all the bugs. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. Once it's fixed it will be a distant memory. But you'll still be a troll. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Except automakers like honda err on the extreme side of caution by not offering multimedia entertainment systems and sticking with tried and true 5 speed automatics. Thats why their reliability rankings are so high. For Ford, Quality seems to no longer be Job One. Did someone bring up Honda transmissions? My link 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 these are 2001-2004 cars. they've learned their lesson, and ford is going to learn theirs. Oh yes, because 6 years ago is ancient history and Honda is perfect now. What a simplistic mentality. LOL By the way my uncle's 2005 Honda CRV just burned up it's 3rd AC compressor in 5 years, just like most of the other Honda CRV's from that time. Of course Honda has always refused to cover the cost or admit that they used defective AC units so he bought a Caddy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) Except automakers like honda err on the extreme side of caution by not offering multimedia entertainment systems and sticking with tried and true 5 speed automatics. Thats why their reliability rankings are so high. For Ford, Quality seems to no longer be Job One. I'm sorry what was that comment again? Honda doesn't offer what? Oh yes, except when it's standard equipment. Edited June 25, 2011 by BlackHorse 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 you know what i mean, Honda's screens are tasteful and classy and simple too. If you consider a dash straight out of the 1980's classy...oh wait you weren't even born yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 As ticked off as I am about these rankings, I still wouldn't want a car without MyFord Touch...I guess that's why i'm really disappointed because they have seriously botched the launch of what could have been a great system, now others will step in and do it better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) these are 2001-2004 cars. they've learned their lesson, and ford is going to learn theirs. Thats the difference between an inital quality rating on a 1 year old car and the reality of long term durability. Edited June 25, 2011 by F250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 you know what i mean, Honda's screens are tasteful and classy and simple too. They don't offer nearly the amount of information, nor the amount of features that myford touch does. navigation and colorful instrument panels do not amount to a full blown iDrive type system like myford touch Do you mean Honda follows the standard Japanese car company procedure of letting other companies lead the way and coping their systems (with some refinements) and releasing them 4-5 years after everyone else. Of course they are always late to the party but they never have to come up with original ideas and they save a lot of R&D money. The side benifit is since they are coping existing systems they have fewer problems early on leading to high IQS ratings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) Oh yes, because 6 years ago is ancient history and Honda is perfect now. What a simplistic mentality. LOL Honda is definitely not perfect, as the NY Times article F250 posted indicates. But quality ratings of the company's automobiles overall have been, and continue to be, among the highest of any manufacturer (as evidenced in the 2011 J.D. Power IQS mentioned in this thread). Honda is quite consistent in this regard. Edited June 25, 2011 by aneekr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenp77 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Oh yes, because 6 years ago is ancient history and Honda is perfect now. What a simplistic mentality. LOL By the way my uncle's 2005 Honda CRV just burned up it's 3rd AC compressor in 5 years, just like most of the other Honda CRV's from that time. Of course Honda has always refused to cover the cost or admit that they used defective AC units so he bought a Caddy. Much like ford has done with the spark plug n cam phasers on 04-07 5.4 3V and refused to admit a design flaw!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Much like ford has done with the spark plug n cam phasers on 04-07 5.4 3V and refused to admit a design flaw!! Exactly. It's good to see that Ford appears to be pro-active on these problems. Time will tell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 that was what ford was doing from 2006-2010 and they were successful with their quality ratings. Ford should go back to have quality as job 1 instead of having fads and gizmos as #1 Your status here is under discussion. Adjust your attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) that was what ford was doing from 2006-2010 and they were successful with their quality ratings. Ford should go back to have quality as job 1 instead of having fads and gizmos as #1 No, they were already leading with their excellent Sync. Some of that good quality was in part due SYNC's perceived value. Ford was building on that. I think they should have taken a step or two between the old SYNC and MFT. Edited June 25, 2011 by timmm55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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