makithapn Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Since ford is not offering places for tradesman to tranfer within their trade, not only do we take a cut in pay, but we also lose our seniority, because we have no production time, I have served an apprenticeship and had to show 8 years worth of experience to get hired. I have 22yrs with ford and when I transfer to production , they are giving 2007 seniority, this is not right!!!!, A DOUBLE SLAP IN THE FACE, SENIORITY RULES IS BS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeedTradesJobs Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 What's sad is that I hope I even get offered a production job! I'm getting put back on the street in 4 weeks while my fellow tradesmen (some with lower seniority) will work 6 to 7 days a week. I just want a job in my trade in order of my seniority! No more, no less! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Angry_Millwright Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 A resolution was passed through that will change that from what I was told. All trades with no production seniority will keep all of their seniority if they go to production 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ypsirat Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Since ford is not offering places for tradesman to tranfer within their trade, not only do we take a cut in pay, but we also lose our seniority, because we have no production time, I have served an apprenticeship and had to show 8 years worth of experience to get hired. I have 22yrs with ford and when I transfer to production , they are giving 2007 seniority, this is not right!!!!, A DOUBLE SLAP IN THE FACE, SENIORITY RULES IS BS Welcome aboard, we have been living this nightmare for 2 years now. The sad thing is that Ford don't care what our seniority is or where we are placed, This is all the doing of our beloved union that we pay our union dues to only to have them put a foot in our ass anytime they get a chance.This is all set up to protect the tradesman that have originated at their local. If you come to DTP you will find that there are a number of tradesman working in your trade with a lot less seniority than you. Our union don't want to allow zone bumping rights because they don't want there trades (most of whom have 2000 or less seniority ) bumped to the line with 2007 seniority and on the dreaded C Crew. Hoping once we have enough of us on 1 shift we ought to try to put it to Ford and make them force these assholes into doing the right thing. I happen to agree with another poster on here that we as tradesmen need a different union to represent us because we have no representation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Welcome aboard, we have been living this nightmare for 2 years now. The sad thing is that Ford don't care what our seniority is or where we are placed, This is all the doing of our beloved union that we pay our union dues to only to have them put a foot in our ass anytime they get a chance.This is all set up to protect the tradesman that have originated at their local. If you come to DTP you will find that there are a number of tradesman working in your trade with a lot less seniority than you. Our union don't want to allow zone bumping rights because they don't want there trades (most of whom have 2000 or less seniority ) bumped to the line with 2007 seniority and on the dreaded C Crew. Hoping once we have enough of us on 1 shift we ought to try to put it to Ford and make them force these assholes into doing the right thing. I happen to agree with another poster on here that we as tradesmen need a different union to represent us because we have no representation. You're odd man out. The IUAW and reps go where the votes are. They are not obligated to bargain for the rights of any individual, but what they bargain for and becomes binding should apply to ALL they represent. We should hold them to that. What if... production (larger voting bloc) were treated this way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rn4 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Since ford is not offering places for tradesman to tranfer within their trade, not only do we take a cut in pay, but we also lose our seniority, because we have no production time, I have served an apprenticeship and had to show 8 years worth of experience to get hired. I have 22yrs with ford and when I transfer to production , they are giving 2007 seniority, this is not right!!!!, A DOUBLE SLAP IN THE FACE, SENIORITY RULES IS BS If a production worker goes to trades, guess what their seniority is in trades. If you never been in production, you use to not get a choice to go to production, instead you were laid off. You need to thank the union for giving skilled trades the opportunity to go to production instead of being laid off. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWeeps Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 If a production worker goes to trades, guess what their seniority is in trades. If you never been in production, you use to not get a choice to go to production, instead you were laid off. You need to thank the union for giving skilled trades the opportunity to go to production instead of being laid off. Excellent point RN4! I want my production seniority as my trades seniority and vice versa! And while I'm at it, can I get my cake and eat it too? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Empire Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) Welcome aboard, we have been living this nightmare for 2 years now. The sad thing is that Ford don't care what our seniority is or where we are placed, This is all the doing of our beloved union that we pay our union dues to only to have them put a foot in our ass anytime they get a chance. Where is the contractual violation? There is no such thing in our agreement where you can bump lower seniority out of their respective units. This is all set up to protect the tradesman that have originated at their local. What was set up? Our current contract has been this way for the past 50 years. If you come to DTP you will find that there are a number of tradesman working in your trade with a lot less seniority than you. OK where is the seniority violation? Our union don't want to allow zone bumping rights because they don't want there trades (most of whom have 2000 or less seniority ) bumped to the line with 2007 seniority and on the dreaded C Crew. The union or company has no contractual right to perform this illeagal action within the current agreement. Hoping once we have enough of us on 1 shift we ought to try to put it to Ford and make them force these assholes into doing the right thing. Force them into an non-contractual position? Hmmmm I happen to agree with another poster on here that we as tradesmen need a different union to represent us because we have no representation. I certainly hope your representative told you there is no language to grant you what you are asking for, unless you can produce a volume, article and section number there is no avenue to “bump” under this agreement You and the rest of the ILO/Production trades are in a bad position. The zone seniority that you are asking for does not fix anything. It just swaps out trades. The real way to fix this situation is to bargain more products and investment in our plants. Hopefully CAP, LAP, MAP and the related plants that got huge investments from the 2007 agreement will put 3 shifts on requiring many skilled openings. If the IUAW can negotiate more products in 2011 that would generate even more skilled positions. That is what really needs to happen. The zone seniority doesn’t fix the problem Best of luck to all trades reduced to production and ILO. The 2011 agreement with product investment is the only hope. Edited August 22, 2011 by Empire 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Survivor Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 You and the rest of the ILO/Production trades are in a bad position. The zone seniority that you are asking for does not fix anything. It just swaps out trades. The real way to fix this situation is to bargain more products and investment in our plants. Hopefully CAP, LAP, MAP and the related plants that got huge investments from the 2007 agreement will put 3 shifts on requiring many skilled openings. If the IUAW can negotiate more products in 2011 that would generate even more skilled positions. That is what really needs to happen. The zone seniority doesn’t fix the problem Best of luck to all trades reduced to production and ILO. The 2011 agreement with product investment is the only hope. You are right we need continued product and investment to generate more skilled positions and hopefully hire more employees. I hope the UAW bargaining team has that high on its agenda. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uawfactoryrat Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Since ford is not offering places for tradesman to tranfer within their trade, not only do we take a cut in pay, but we also lose our seniority, because we have no production time, I have served an apprenticeship and had to show 8 years worth of experience to get hired. I have 22yrs with ford and when I transfer to production , they are giving 2007 seniority, this is not right!!!!, A DOUBLE SLAP IN THE FACE, SENIORITY RULES IS BS I have been living this nightmare since 2007. Its old disturbing news, no body cares until it affects them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uawfactoryrat Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Welcome aboard, we have been living this nightmare for 2 years now. The sad thing is that Ford don't care what our seniority is or where we are placed, This is all the doing of our beloved union that we pay our union dues to only to have them put a foot in our ass anytime they get a chance.This is all set up to protect the tradesman that have originated at their local. If you come to DTP you will find that there are a number of tradesman working in your trade with a lot less seniority than you. Our union don't want to allow zone bumping rights because they don't want there trades (most of whom have 2000 or less seniority ) bumped to the line with 2007 seniority and on the dreaded C Crew. Hoping once we have enough of us on 1 shift we ought to try to put it to Ford and make them force these assholes into doing the right thing. I happen to agree with another poster on here that we as tradesmen need a different union to represent us because we have no representation. When I came to DTP there were 19 tradesman that had less time than me when my plant closed and I went there as production. That's just at that location. Its sick to think I pay dues and seniority means crap!!! The best part is when there is a posting they let high seniority with jobs sign them and backfill with low seniority.How in the hell should trades with jobs be able to sign a job posting? Isn't that a job transfer, not a job posting? Mean while Im stuck in limbo not being able to bump and having trades WITH jobs take my posting!!! Thanks UAW !!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I hope you understand that what your asking for will never happen. 1. Many Plants with low seniority trades would join a different union than yours. If you actually got close to having the backing to decert they will contact a another Union and start the process of petitioning NLRB to keep you from creating any Ford wide agreements. 2. I am not sure but they could probably petition the NLRB to stay part of the UAW. IUAW would certainly give any plant that wanted that all the help it needed. 3. If either of those two happen, expect Ford to put product in UAW trade controlled plants and basically cut you off at the knees. 4. Expect the UAW to bargain to move production to plants where they still have trades. You would be stuck because it would be in the best interest of its members, of which you wouldn't be. 5. Individual trades could petition the NLRB to join a trade specific Union. Again expect plants with low seniority to attempt this. In the end i see nothing but bad things: lawsuits, bad press, distrust anger, and possibly violence. I fully expect push back if you tried. But this is all hypothetical and merely an interesting conversation because when we look deep inside our selves we all want the Wolf we know rather than the wolf we don't, except those on the street. Their Wolf sucks. I don't know about all of this, but it is our own members who would not ratify something that allows someone to possible bump them to the street, just my opinion, it only affects those out on the street or displaced and although it may make sense to you or I it would never get passed because the numbers are not there. So a resolution with that will not survive. Same goes for skilled with no production time, it was never in the agreement and before the modification, you would have been on the street the entire time regardless if they were hiring off the street. So it was a partial fix. And as far as a tradesperson working getting the opportunity to sign for skilled openings, this is not new language, this is old language and allows a senior person to choose to be placed and allow a ILOed tradesperson from the plant to be brought back in to work, again I don't agree, but it is old language. 6 or one and 1/2 dozen of another....trades will still be on the street no matter what seniority issue is resolved. I personally think the fix is getting your $$ back. That makes the company look long and hard at utilizing you on your trade instead of in production if they have to pay you the rate. I think this, more than anything, will help fix the issue with all those displaced trades!! I have a lot of friends on the streets and displaced...hang in there guys/gals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ypsirat Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 You and the rest of the ILO/Production trades are in a bad position. The zone seniority that you are asking for does not fix anything. It just swaps out trades. The real way to fix this situation is to bargain more products and investment in our plants. Hopefully CAP, LAP, MAP and the related plants that got huge investments from the 2007 agreement will put 3 shifts on requiring many skilled openings. If the IUAW can negotiate more products in 2011 that would generate even more skilled positions. That is what really needs to happen. The zone seniority doesn’t fix the problem Best of luck to all trades reduced to production and ILO. The 2011 agreement with product investment is the only hope. Empire Your points are valid and true to what the current contract language is , but right there lies the problem. 50 years ago look at our membership numbers and the number of facilities that were operating at Ford, GM, and chrysler. Our language is simply outdated and needs to be revised to reflect the current times we are in. Back in 2000 when Ford spun all the parts plants to Visteon is when the union should have started getting language in the contract to protect the seniority employees (whether production or skilled) from being put into the street. That never happened then and is not happening now. Like I said before Ford does not care what employee is where or what their seniority date is , all they care about is the numbers. It is our union that chooses it to stay this way. Why is that? If all we have is seniority why shouldn't we be secure in knowing that if we are laid off from 1 facility that we will have a job at another . If Michigan assembly were to hire off the street tomorrow to fill another shift and they had 2011 seniority and low and behold they close Dearborne (hypothetical situation here) at the end of the year leaving all us seniority employees in the street ,do you actually think that is a fair ? I also agree that the only way I am going back to trades is through product investment. I think we all see what that is gonna cost everybody ( no wage increase and an influx of 2nd tier wages into our facilities). I guess I am suppose to be okay with that because Ill get a 5 dollar an hour raise and get back to my trade . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usedtobe898 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Since ford is not offering places for tradesman to tranfer within their trade, not only do we take a cut in pay, but we also lose our seniority, because we have no production time, I have served an apprenticeship and had to show 8 years worth of experience to get hired. I have 22yrs with ford and when I transfer to production , they are giving 2007 seniority, this is not right!!!!, A DOUBLE SLAP IN THE FACE, SENIORITY RULES IS BS last time i checked if it wasnt for production they wouldnt even need tradesmen at assembly plants and most other ford plants---- they need trades to keep it running but they need production to build cars and trucks and parts to make money witch is first and foremost------but you will only have to work 8 more years as a lowly production worker then your premodanna uchre playing paper reading lazy ass can retire --- then you will respect production work like most trades who started from production do----- good luck with that ill see you on trim and final!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louie Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 last time i checked if it wasnt for production they wouldnt even need tradesmen at assembly plants and most other ford plants---- they need trades to keep it running but they need production to build cars and trucks and parts to make money witch is first and foremost------but you will only have to work 8 more years as a lowly production worker then your premodanna uchre playing paper reading lazy ass can retire --- then you will respect production work like most trades who started from production do----- good luck with that ill see you on trim and final!!!!! I see you have no Solidarity you puke 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usedtobe898 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I see you have no Solidarity you puke i see you have joels balls in your mouth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louie Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 i see you have joels balls in your mouth First of all I have no homosexual tendencies so dont assume that I am like you. Second I have no idea who jeol is Third you are still a puke that continues to tear down this union 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usedtobe898 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 First of all I have no homosexual tendencies so dont assume that I am like you. Second I have no idea who jeol is Third you are still a puke that continues to tear down this union you are joels ball washer and the whole union knows it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armstrong Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 First of all I have no homosexual tendencies so dont assume that I am like you. Second I have no idea who jeol is Third you are still a puke that continues to tear down this union Good response..... Its just Chuck He will go away and come back with some other name spewing the same divisive crap Still laughing at your response LOL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skilled1 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 First of all I have no homosexual tendencies so dont assume that I am like you. Second I have no idea who jeol is Third you are still a puke that continues to tear down this union Lol---------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makithapn Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) last time i checked if it wasnt for production they wouldnt even need tradesmen at assembly plants and most other ford plants---- they need trades to keep it running but they need production to build cars and trucks and parts to make money witch is first and foremost------but you will only have to work 8 more years as a lowly production worker then your premodanna uchre playing paper reading lazy ass can retire --- then you will respect production work like most trades who started from production do----- good luck with that ill see you on trim and final!!!!! "GAME ON", usetobe898 Hope to see you at lap in the future! Edited August 24, 2011 by makithapn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makithapn Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 If a production worker goes to trades, guess what their seniority is in trades. If you never been in production, you use to not get a choice to go to production, instead you were laid off. You need to thank the union for giving skilled trades the opportunity to go to production instead of being laid off. Just looking for an even playing field, When a production goes into trades, they usually get a raise, and their trade seniority starts immediately, not after the end of their apprenticeship, and when a tradesman is laid off that went thru the appr. , he goes back to date of entry., when you were hired on as producttion, it did not require any special skills, yu were hired based on who you blew, knew or were related to. So , why can"t a tradesman be returned to their hire in date? I don"t want my cake and eat it too!,, I am just looking for and even playing field, that"s all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rn4 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Just looking for an even playing field, When a production goes into trades, they usually get a raise, and their trade seniority starts immediately, not after the end of their apprenticeship, and when a tradesman is laid off that went thru the appr. , he goes back to date of entry., when you were hired on as producttion, it did not require any special skills, yu were hired based on who you blew, knew or were related to. So , why can"t a tradesman be returned to their hire in date? I don"t want my cake and eat it too!,, I am just looking for and even playing field, that"s all. You already got a break by being allowed to go to production. If you have been in trades for 22 years you should already know that until recently you would have been laid off instead of getting the production opportunity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Empire Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) [Yes changing seniority rules does nothing but place a burden on another person The Cap, Lap and Map shift additions are a real possibility in the near term. This should help trades get back to work. If more product is committed in this agreement then there should be more trades opportunities soon. We need a windfall of investment commitments like the 2007 agreement brought us as we can see now how important these commitments can be for our job security Edited August 25, 2011 by Empire 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymaker Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 If a production worker goes to trades, guess what their seniority is in trades. If you never been in production, you use to not get a choice to go to production, instead you were laid off. You need to thank the union for giving skilled trades the opportunity to go to production instead of being laid off. you no understand!! we were FORCED to go to DTP.... no choice. if i had a choice, i would rather be on the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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