MillRight Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 My guess is 3.5 ecoboost, 3.7, and the 3.2 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) "They can call it whatever they want; we just hope we get a version of the UK-market limited-edition SportVan pictured above. " Wow, tell me the 70's are not back! PLEASE! "I took a van and put stripes on the hood....and rubber band tires on blingmaster rims.....yeah, I call it a Sportvan". So..we'll have T-150, T-250, T-350, T-450 and.................E-150, E-250, E-350, E-450 and.................F-150, F-250, F-350, F-450 Maybe we need a transit connect TC-150, TC-250, etc,etc? Edited October 7, 2011 by GTwannabe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 will KCAP get the transit connect as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 will KCAP get the transit connect as well? The way I read the changes is that the F150 area remains and increased to two shifts while the Ranger Area is reconfigured for Transit and its integral ladder frame. Transit Connect would require additional stamping consideration or.... would Ford build it down Focus or Escape lines? Kansas City Assembly PlantThe Kansas City Assembly plant will grow with the North American introduction of the Transit Commercial Van, being insourced from Europe. To support the growth, an integrated stamping plant is being added to the site. A second shift of F-series production is being added in 2012, and the next generation F-Series is awarded to the plant. Total investment on the site is over $1B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 The way I read the changes is that the F150 area remains and increased to two shifts while the Ranger Area is reconfigured for Transit and its integral ladder frame. Transit Connect would require additional stamping consideration or.... would Ford build it down Focus or Escape lines? the Transit connect is built in the same plant as the Transit. it would be wise to better use the 180,000 per year capacity of KCAP by building the TC there as well. 100k large van plus 70k small vans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 the Transit connect is built in the same plant as the Transit. it would be wise to better use the 180,000 per year capacity of KCAP by building the TC there as well. 100k large van plus 70k small vans. It depends on the layout of the press shop and body shops but since Ford has a lot of experience with the Turkish plant it is possible that a joint facility could work well, fingers crossed and hopefully part of further announcements after contract is ratified.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Transit should roll with the F-Series V6 powertrains, and (by extension) some F-Series wiring & other misc. brakes maybe? Highly unlikely. You are forgetting the obvious. The big volumes is, and for the near future, will be in EU. Brakes, etc. are already sourced to supplier over there. Remember, One Ford. Unless the part from an F150 is much cheaper, the rest of the design is not likely going to change to accommodate it. I fully expect the Transit to hit the streets with the 3.5L EB & 3.7L V6 stateside. You just don't get it. This is a WORK vehicle. Cost is everything. Forget EcoBoost anything. 3.7L will be base. The 5 cylinder turbo diesel will be optional. A "real" automatic (possibly from the F150) will be the only transmission. (This is the exception to the rule because a full automatic is not available on any Transit in EU.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 If the Transit connect is built in the same plant as the Transit. ... will KCAP get the transit connect as well? I have not read or heard anything like that. My guess is the Transit Connect will be built in Mexico. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) You just don't get it. This is a WORK vehicle. Cost is everything. Forget EcoBoost anything. 3.7L will be base. The 5 cylinder turbo diesel will be optional. A "real" automatic (possibly from the F150) will be the only transmission. (This is the exception to the rule because a full automatic is not available on any Transit in EU.) At the moment T6 Ranger shares 2.2 I-4 diesel and 3.2 I5 diesel with Transit,both engines in Ranger are available with manual and 6R80 Auto transmissions, No doubt the autos will find their way into Transit... If diesels are coming to T Series, this would be the perfect opportunity to amortize the cost of meeting US and coming Euro 6 Diesel NOX regulations in one go. I have not read or heard anything like that. My guess is the Transit Connect will be built in Mexico. Transit's integral ladder frame allows the use of a shared body shop for Transit and Transit Connect, I have not heard any whispers or announcements that confirm TC for KCAP but it could hinge on the proposed contract being ratified by rank and file, we should know either way in the near future..... Edited October 8, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 One thing for sure...with TC production moving to Spain. The TC must be built on this continent...somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Yeah. Like Mondeo. Or Kuga. Now you're just bitching for the sake of bitching. Take a vacation. Your comparison is flawed, and you know why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Highly unlikely. You are forgetting the obvious. The big volumes is, and for the near future, will be in EU. Brakes, etc. are already sourced to supplier over there. Remember, One Ford. Unless the part from an F150 is much cheaper, the rest of the design is not likely going to change to accommodate it. You just don't get it. This is a WORK vehicle. Cost is everything. Forget EcoBoost anything. 3.7L will be base. The 5 cylinder turbo diesel will be optional. A "real" automatic (possibly from the F150) will be the only transmission. (This is the exception to the rule because a full automatic is not available on any Transit in EU.) Wrong on both counts. 1 - Ford sold 62k E-Series, 76k Transits and 264k F-Series in H1 2011. Assuming a 66% mix of F150s and you've got 174k F150s. Pretty sure I can guess which brake system Ford gets the volume discounts on. 2 - So you say Ford will NOT put in a turbo V6, and WILL put in a diesel I-5, with the argument being the cost difference? Pray tell, why will cost-conscious buyers spend an extra $5-6k for a diesel that would require ~450k miles at 15MPG, 20% FE improvement and a $.15 difference in cost of fuel to justify its purchase over the EB engine??????? On what planet does that make sense? Because if the cost of fuel is greater than $.15, the FE gains are less than 20%, or the MPG is less than 15MPG, you're looking at an even longer period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Your comparison is flawed, and you know why. No, I don't. Ford already changed the name of the Econoline 250 & Econoline 350 to "E-250" and "E-350". Why would it be a break with established naming conventions to change the name of the Transit to "T-150", etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) "They can call it whatever they want; we just hope we get a version of the UK-market limited-edition SportVan pictured above. " Wow, tell me the 70's are not back! PLEASE! "I took a van and put stripes on the hood....and rubber band tires on blingmaster rims.....yeah, I call it a Sportvan". At least those American 70's vans had a little style these new Euro-vans are just bread boxes. Edited October 8, 2011 by F250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) 1 - Ford sold 62k E-Series, 76k Transits and 264k F-Series in H1 2011. Assuming a 66% mix of F150s and you've got 174k F150s. Pretty sure I can guess which brake system Ford gets the volume discounts on. At any of those volumes, the cost difference of rotors, calipers, pads, etc will be very small. 2 - So you say Ford will NOT put in a turbo V6, and WILL put in a diesel I-5, with the argument being the cost difference? Pray tell, why will cost-conscious buyers spend an extra $5-6k for a diesel that would require ~450k miles at 15MPG, 20% FE improvement and a $.15 difference in cost of fuel to justify its purchase over the EB engine??????? Your logic/numbers are correct. Some companies want a diesel because they know the engine will last 450k. The EcoBoost is still an "unknown" when it comes to high mileage. Besides, companies may only have one type of fuel, diesel, in their yard. Actually, the really cost conscience companies will go with the 3.7L CNG option ! Edited October 8, 2011 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 One thing for sure...with TC production moving to Spain. The TC must be built on this continent...somewhere. They also are producing the TC in Romania, that will be their low cost site. Wrong on both counts. 1 - Ford sold 62k E-Series, 76k Transits and 264k F-Series in H1 2011. Assuming a 66% mix of F150s and you've got 174k F150s. Pretty sure I can guess which brake system Ford gets the volume discounts on. 2 - So you say Ford will NOT put in a turbo V6, and WILL put in a diesel I-5, with the argument being the cost difference? Pray tell, why will cost-conscious buyers spend an extra $5-6k for a diesel that would require ~450k miles at 15MPG, 20% FE improvement and a $.15 difference in cost of fuel to justify its purchase over the EB engine??????? On what planet does that make sense? Because if the cost of fuel is greater than $.15, the FE gains are less than 20%, or the MPG is less than 15MPG, you're looking at an even longer period. how come the jetta TDI only commands a $3000 premium over the non Diesel Jetta? The cost of technology rarely remains constant, it usually go down. The cost driver in diesel technology is not the tech, but in the development cost\ of that tech. if those costs are spread over greater volumes that cost will go down. If ford has to develop Diesel engines that meet Euro6 and US regs, it would be reasonable to expect the cost of the technology to go down as volume increases. combined with production in North America, offering that engine in the F-150, SD, Transit, and the medium duty trucks, would be a good chunk of volume, to drive those global development costs down. the incentive for ford to develop a strategy like this: profit They have to meet tougher global emissions standards, increasing volume reduces those costs. CAFE Transit cannot fit a V8, so ford needs to offer a competitive Truck engine option. there is no competition in this market segment the 6.7l engine used in the Super duty is used for one thing bragging rights, the need for such powerful and thirsty diesel is limited. far more cost effective to fit in vehicles than the Scorpion. did you ever think ford is pushing back into the medium duty market simply to sell more Scorpions? since AFAIK they have been unable to find any takers for the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) Transit's integral ladder frame allows the use of a shared body shop for Transit and Transit Connect, Huh ???!!! The current Transit Connect is based on the C170 platform (previous generation Focus). The next generation Transit Connect will be based on the C1 platform (current EU and US Focus). Both are unibody. Edited October 12, 2011 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 One thing for sure...with TC production moving to Spain. The TC must be built on this continent...somewhere. They also are producing the TC in Romania, that will be their low cost site. If both of these statements are correct, then the TC may stay an import ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Huh ???!!! The current Transit connect is based on the C170 platform (previous generation Focus). The next generation Transit Connect will be based on the C1 platform (current EU and US Focus). Both are unibody. you can build the TC and the transit in the same body shop. even thought the dual production of the TC and transit ends in a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) how come the jetta TDI only commands a $3000 premium over the non Diesel Jetta? Because VW is subsidizing it and because it is small enough and weak enough to avoid urea injection and more expensive catalysts. Obviously, Ford is pushing back into medium duty (where they only offer inline Cummins engines) because they can't find any takers for the 6.7L scorpion; just as obviously, Ford will be assembling CD4 at KCAP and the SUV boom ended in 2008. God, I knew I'd regret posting a response to your unqualified speculation. Edited October 8, 2011 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) I'd be very careful thinking that diesel costs would go down with expansion of Focus. In Australia, the option cost for Focus 2.0 diesel over the 2.0 DI gas engine is AUS $6,3000 A diesel engine in a Transit may be justified as a necessity in Europe, extending to USA to help meet NOX emissions but the same cannot be said of a diesel option in a car, the business plan and buyer criterion are based on differnt factors. Edited October 8, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Because VW is subsidizing it and because it is small enough and weak enough to avoid urea injection and more expensive catalysts. Obviously, Ford is pushing back into medium duty (where they only offer inline Cummins engines) because they can't find any takers for the 6.7L scorpion; just as obviously, Ford will be assembling CD4 at KCAP and the SUV boom ended in 2008. God, I knew I'd regret posting a response to your unqualified speculation. Good point about the 6.7L diesel. When it was under development, the diesel pickup horsepower/torque war was in full swing, and Ford had image problems resulting from the troubled 6.0L Powerstroke. At the time, it made perfect sense to develop an in-house high performance truck diesel. However, while the 6.7L was under development, the market changed. Diesel fuel became substantially more expensive, diesel emission regulations became more stringent requiring expensive controls, and fuel economy suffered as a result. The market is trending away from diesels in heavy duty pickups. Even though the 6.7L is manufactured at a low cost Mexican plant, I suspect it isn't making Ford any money. The solution is to increase volume, either by selling 6.7L's to other OEM's or finding more in-house applications for the engine, medium duty certainly being one. I'll bet Ford regrets not designing the 6.7L to fit in the E series. Even if the E series is reduced to cutaway 450 models only, that's still significant volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 They knew the diesel emissions regs were tightening and I'm pretty sure they knew about the price differential, as that's been around for what? 4-5 years now? They also had reached the point of no return with Navistar, so what choice did they have? At least with the 6.7, they've probably got a engine platform that will last a decade or so, and they may be able to re-engineer the Class 4-6 stuff to accept it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 what is V343N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) I guess if a large fleet buyer (like FedEx) steps up and say they want diesel, it will happen. FedEx was responsible for Sprinter making it the US in the first place because it was unhappy with the fuel economy of transitional US fullsize vans (E-150/250 specifically). FedEx committed to a large order of Sprinter van with diesel engine, enough so that Daimler approved the project with Freightliner to do CKD assembly. If Ford can promise to undercut Sprinter CDI by 15% (entirely possible if the van is manufactured here instead of just CKD assembly), I suppose the market reception could be quite positive. The key difference between the business case for diesel on the fullsize van vs. F-150 is that diesel will already be engineered for Europe so there is no "additional" design costs... just emission related costs. And more importantly, the fullsize van is almost all fleet sales, so the vagaries of American retail consumer expectation/prejudice about diesel is less important than in a pickup truck (which relies much heavily on retail sales). Edited October 10, 2011 by bzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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