What do You Expect to Get From a No Vote? What would it take for a yes vote?

[lightsout]

What will voting no accomplish?

[Spring]

I'm just curious....what is it that people need in this agreement in order to support it? What is so terrible? Is it the money? Work conditions? We need to say very specifically what we want instead of just saying no.

[FiredMotorCompany]

I'm just curious....what is it that people need in this agreement in order to support it? What is so terrible? Is it the money? Work conditions? We need to say very specifically what we want instead of just saying no.

 

Sister.

 

We are selling-out WHSP. Isn't that enough?

 

Okay, we are cashing in on the retirees suffering by not standing up for them. They are the ones who fought for and bled for the union and the benefits the majority of the membership see as a given.

 

The company promised a new product for plants that NEVER got fulfilled in the last contract. It's BS to claim this new "commitment" is anything but a half cup of what had been promised to be delivered before the expiration of the 2007 contract. Teasing us with a "new commitment" for a product that will be a single shift for OHAP is a slap in the face of those who got shafted by commitments, re-commitments and offered re-re-commitments.

 

But, hey. Many here care only about "THEIR" new product, $6000 bonus, profit sharing advance,..........

 

The cheerleaders are selling-out WHSP, like they did in 2007 and the five closed plants, for a penance. I know, I got sold out as well. No one else has the gall to say, "Go back to the table. We will not profit on the suffering of our brothers and sisters, or our retirees. PROTECT THEM FIRST!"

 

Solidarity? "Screw 'em. I got MINE! Check out my new snow-mobile." That's what it means today.

[Marantz]

Remove the words (SETTELMENT BONUS) to (SIGNING BONUS)

Return Trades pay to Trades working in production

Remove cap on profit sharing

Stop fluffing the contract with money already spent in plants...

Remove 1/2 of 2011 profit share and pay us in full for 2011 in March. Another FLUFF

Settel the greivance before the contract.

GIVE US 2 THINGS BACK WE GAVE UPTO HELP THE COMPANY BECOME PROFITABLE.

 

 

7 issues that should be easy.

This is not asking for alot.

[wixom22]

Remove the words (SETTELMENT BONUS) to (SIGNING BONUS)

Return Trades pay to Trades working in production

Remove cap on profit sharing

Stop fluffing the contract with money already spent in plants...

Remove 1/2 of 2011 profit share and pay us in full for 2011 in March. Another FLUFF

Settel the greivance before the contract.

GIVE US 2 THINGS BACK WE GAVE UPTO HELP THE COMPANY BECOME PROFITABLE.

 

 

7 issues that should be easy.

This is not asking for alot.

That's enough to get my yes vote.

[justme]

I would at least like for the second tier to be able to reach first tier wages and benefits.

I want break time back.

I want anything over eight hours being overtime.

I want for every hourly job they eliminate they eliminate a salaried job. 120 day clock only every five years or only when necessary as for HUGE model change. (They are willing to pay engineers bookoo bucks(hundreds of them) to walk around watching us, nonstop to eliminate our jobs as though they have NO RESPECT for us. Ford family my ass. How does paying all those engineers all that money to get rid of us make any sense when they claim to be hurting so bad and need to cut costs!!!!!

I believe we should get just about all the concessions back that we gave up. They pretty much said, "in your face" when they reinstated salaried bonuses and I knew they were going to do that.

Just my opinion.

Oh, yeah, I would like for international to have had the balls to stand up to them and tell them you already slated new products for these plants during the last contract and we won't allow you to hold that over their(our union bros and sisters) heads for this contract.

I would like for our union officials to be backing us, not them.

[Len_A]

Hell0 - More Money!!!!!

 

We gave up 30k in wages/concessions in the past 3 years!!!!

 

Why is the union taking care of 2nd tier when we all didn't want 2nd tier????

 

Why has COLA not been brought back????

 

Sub Pay Limitation done away with??

 

Reduce co-pays back to 10 bucks??

 

Signing Bonus for Laid off or out on discipline workers??

 

A fair profit sharing??

 

NO MORE CEO MILLIONS (CEO makes 1500 times the average US worker, how can this show a positive in our society?) how can this be fair? We would like to see an across the board flat salary for all company high level pay executives, this includes Mark Fields, Bill Ford and Allan M.

 

Break Time Minutes??

 

Retiree Bump in Pay??

 

At Least 10K for signing after taxes??

 

Trades back to Trades??

 

100k buyouts for people that just wanna get the fuck out that have 28 years or more??

 

Work conditions at ROUGE changed (supervision/management harassment discontinued)?? (Very Bad)

 

I think if the IUAW can return this, it would get a YES vote in a split second.

 

The fact that Ford reports billions in profit every quarter isn't good for your negotiation team. It shows we can't get anything back by they way you all negotiate. We also didn't take any bail out money, this tells me Ford really had the cash!. If they had the cash to not take bailout and go bankrupt then the company can afford to give back being that we gave up big time in concessions. Maybe not taking bailout money shot them in the foot, but if your profitable, then pay back the workers.

Second tier exists to be competitive with the transplants. They are the Detroit equivalents of the "perma temps" used by Toyota, Nissan & Honda. The transplants don't pay COLA. CEO pay is obscene, but determined by the Board of Directors and the shareholders and will never be subject to the influence of a labor union. In fact, the more you gripe about it, the more upward pressure is put on CEO pay, because they will demand the extra obscene compensation for dealing with such obstinate pains-in-the-ass, like you. I'm not being sarcastic here either - the firms that headhunt for new CEO candidates frequently cite having to deal with labor unions as a reason to increase already high CEO salaries.

 

The transplants don't use one fourth the number of trades that the Detroit automakers use.

 

 

We also didn't take any bail out money, this tells me Ford really had the cash!.

This statement is ignorant of the fact that what cash Ford had, they had by mortgaging everything, including the trademarks. Ford is still paying these loans back and still carries much more debt than either GM or Chrysler.

 

You want more money? who doesn't. IUAW at GM already ratified this contract. Ford needs to be competitive with GM & Chrysler and the transplants, not paying more.

Edited October 7, 2011 by Len_A

[poop]

I think this should be 2 separate threads. People seem to be only posting what would get a yes vote from them. I think if you have a list of stuff you want in exchange for a yes vote, you should explain what you want to give up from the current deal to get it OR you should explain why you think the current negotiating team, if sent back to the table (after bringing you THIS deal that you are obviously unhappy with) would be able to get more gains from renegotiating.

[4Real?]

What will voting no accomplish?

 

 

It will make our spoiled dumb ass losers brethren think they did something worthwhile. Yep, it will be great when we are on the picket line for $200 a week. Yep, I will remember those fuckers if I am forced out on strike and have to give up this great agreement.

[A Concerned Member]

What will voting no accomplish?

 

It will send a message from the membership that they remember what King and Settles told them in the last couple of years that they would fight to get back some of the things that they gave up when the company was in trouble!

I think the elected National Negoiators did the best they could and had to follow the pattern of the G.M. Agreement and made it a little better money wise to buy the votes of the memership but I for the life of me can't understand why this is the first contract in history that FORGOT about it's past, present, and future retires that built this union and company????? Why ??????

If you want to see a copy of the 2011 Ford Highlights and contract go to - http://www.soldiersofsolidarity.com/

[Machine Man]

It will send a message from the membership that they remember what King and Settles told them in the last couple of years that they would fight to get back some of the things that they gave up when the company was in trouble!

I think the elected National Negoiators did the best they could and had to follow the pattern of the G.M. Agreement and made it a little better money wise to buy the votes of the memership but I for the life of me can't understand why this is the first contract in history that FORGOT about it's past, present, and future retires that built this union and company????? Why ??????

If you want to see a copy of the 2011 Ford Highlights and contract go to - http://www.soldiersofsolidarity.com/

 

Another thread, another post by the SOS Troll.

[LAP89]

I'm just curious....what is it that people need in this agreement in order to support it? What is so terrible? Is it the money? Work conditions? We need to say very specifically what we want instead of just saying no.

 

1 -For skilled trades in production to keep their pay like GM and Chrysler. Every time they have come for concessions I have heard that we need to preserve pattern bargaining so we must except the

concessions. Our trades have been kicked under the bus over the last contract.

2-Remove the cap on profit sharing. If ford makes unimaginable profits from our concessions we should get unimaginable profit sharing checks.

3-Overtime after 8 hrs restored.

[Spring]

You see, this thread has been productive! Instead of everyone sniping at each other (at least for the most part), there have been solutions to the issues posted! That is what my intent was. A lot of the threads on here just become incendiary bashing threads. I think that people have clearly stated what they dislike about the agreement, what they expected from an agreement and what it will take for them to pass an agreement. We need to be rational and thoughtful in this. I believe that there are some areas of the new agreement that need further clarification as well. For example, the time and half after 8 hours. Does this include plants like OHAP on a 4 10 schedule? We need to start a thread of questions for clarification to these issues. But I did want to thank you all for your responses. I know that the IUAW and National Ford Department monitor this site so there should be no excuses that they don't know what some people in the rank and file are saying.

 

I challenge the IUAW and National Ford to reach out to their membership and respond to these questions and issues. Have some guts and come on here and post! Show that you want to be in touch with the membership. If not here then go to FordFanatics. That is a secure UAW site. But there needs to be some avenue for discussion on this. Otherwise this whole situation could implode.

[chessman]

Hell0 - More Money!!!!!

 

We gave up 30k in wages/concessions in the past 3 years!!!!

 

Why is the union taking care of 2nd tier when we all didn't want 2nd tier????

 

Why has COLA not been brought back????

 

Sub Pay Limitation done away with??

 

Reduce co-pays back to 10 bucks??

 

Signing Bonus for Laid off or out on discipline workers??

 

A fair profit sharing??

 

NO MORE CEO MILLIONS (CEO makes 1500 times the average US worker, how can this show a positive in our society?) how can this be fair? We would like to see an across the board flat salary for all company high level pay executives, this includes Mark Fields, Bill Ford and Allan M.

 

Break Time Minutes??

 

Retiree Bump in Pay??

 

At Least 10K for signing after taxes??

 

Trades back to Trades??

 

100k buyouts for people that just wanna get the fuck out that have 28 years or more??

 

Work conditions at ROUGE changed (supervision/management harassment discontinued)?? (Very Bad)

 

I think if the IUAW can return this, it would get a YES vote in a split second.

 

The fact that Ford reports billions in profit every quarter isn't good for your negotiation team. It shows we can't get anything back by they way you all negotiate. We also didn't take any bail out money, this tells me Ford really had the cash!. If they had the cash to not take bailout and go bankrupt then the company can afford to give back being that we gave up big time in concessions. Maybe not taking bailout money shot them in the foot, but if your profitable, then pay back the workers.

 

 

LOL I feel you but be for real---I am tired of people saying that we gave up 30k and that we want it back------look we gave it up, it is gone get over it---now is the time to try and rebuild---it took us years to get those things and we are not going to get them back in one contract-----I am voting yes

Edited October 7, 2011 by chessman

[poop]

But there needs to be some avenue for discussion on this. Otherwise this whole situation could implode.

 

I agree with you that there needs to be a discussion about these issues, but I view BON as a discussion forum for employees to talk about our issues, not for the International to come give their spin. I think if we want to interact with the Ford Department or IUAW they have the facebook pages for that. the Ford department is answering a lot of questions about specific langage and issues today, so maybe that's better? I don't really see the IUAW page responding to people's questions except through press releases or whatever. Just a suggestion for people who want to get a question answered or an issue addressed. I think I saw you in another forum say give credit where credit is due, so they have that avenue to reach out to them. Just sayin...

[Spring]

I agree with you that there needs to be a discussion about these issues, but I view BON as a discussion forum for employees to talk about our issues, not for the International to come give their spin. I think if we want to interact with the Ford Department or IUAW they have the facebook pages for that. the Ford department is answering a lot of questions about specific langage and issues today, so maybe that's better? I don't really see the IUAW page responding to people's questions except through press releases or whatever. Just a suggestion for people who want to get a question answered or an issue addressed. I think I saw you in another forum say give credit where credit is due, so they have that avenue to reach out to them. Just sayin...

 

 

I do believe in giving credit where credit is due and I believe I demonstrated that with acknowledging the release of the contract online. That was a great move. However, I've still to see anything on the unpublished letters and I have asked about those several times, including to my union structure. I will tell you, until we see those, it is not TOTAL transparency. Still a little opaque there. I don't believe that asking a member of the IUAW or National Ford department to go online to BON, Ford Fanatics or even Facebook and answer questions is outrageous. At least I'm recognizing that the IUAW and National Ford have a serious PR problem with their OWN people, let alone the general public and am trying to offer solutions as to how to address it! There are a lot of people in this world that with disagree for the sake of disagreement and will point out issues but never have solutions as how to resolve those issues. I am not one of those people.

[poop]

I do believe in giving credit where credit is due and I believe I demonstrated that with acknowledging the release of the contract online. That was a great move. However, I've still to see anything on the unpublished letters and I have asked about those several times, including to my union structure. I will tell you, until we see those, it is not TOTAL transparency. Still a little opaque there. I don't believe that asking a member of the IUAW or National Ford department to go online to BON, Ford Fanatics or even Facebook and answer questions is outrageous. At least I'm recognizing that the IUAW and National Ford have a serious PR problem with their OWN people, let alone the general public and am trying to offer solutions as to how to address it! There are a lot of people in this world that with disagree for the sake of disagreement and will point out issues but never have solutions as how to resolve those issues. I am not one of those people.

 

I didn't mean to criticize you. I think you seem absolutely reasonable. I just think that an anonymous message board where people have names like "Bobby King UAW" and whatnot poses problems for the IUAW officially communicating, yknow? So it's understandable if they don't come on here and post.

 

I don't think you are one of the people who point out issues without ways to resolve them. You seem really committed to rational conversation and problem solving, and I applaud you for that, sister. I'm just saying that they have a place to officially answer questions, and we should use that, informational meetings, and other avenues they provide because they need to know how the membership feels. Since they are making the effort to answer our questions on Facebook, we should encourage them there. Just My Opinion.

[Spring]

I didn't mean to criticize you. I think you seem absolutely reasonable. I just think that an anonymous message board where people have names like "Bobby King UAW" and whatnot poses problems for the IUAW officially communicating, yknow? So it's understandable if they don't come on here and post.

 

I don't think you are one of the people who point out issues without ways to resolve them. You seem really committed to rational conversation and problem solving, and I applaud you for that, sister. I'm just saying that they have a place to officially answer questions, and we should use that, informational meetings, and other avenues they provide because they need to know how the membership feels. Since they are making the effort to answer our questions on Facebook, we should encourage them there. Just My Opinion.

 

 

I didn't mean to sound defensive and if I did, I apologize. I was trying to explain my intent. I will always support someone's right to speak and their own opinion. I'm just trying to give options. Not everyone is on FB, BON, Twitter or FFF. We need to come up with a way to do this, though. I'll be honest, I really haven't paid attention to the IUAW on FB. I guess I'll have to go look at the posts. I do know that the National Ford Department does have some people that post on FFF.

[1993Stang]

I'm just curious....what is it that people need in this agreement in order to support it? What is so terrible? Is it the money? Work conditions? We need to say very specifically what we want instead of just saying no.

 

(1) there has been an absolute breakdown of the members and their trust for their leadership. To re-open a contract while the I.U.A.W/company were asking for concessions and the members on the social networks and activists banning together to say no and then right in the faces of our hard working members, just days later giving back to the salaried was just not right, it is a mistrust that will never be erased period! Even if there is a equality of sacrifice agreement, our union bought this absolute dog and pony show from the company and stood by them and supported what they said that "they absolutely needed more concessions" from the hourly workforce after the contract was already re-opened. The leadership should explain this in full detail!!

 

(2) an amendment that stands by a democratic process of electing all appointees and leadership positions.

 

(3) Balance sheet of the Veba, which was told would be good for the next 80 or so years by Ron G. The Union took stock in order to pay for Veba, what amount was put into Veba??

 

(4) The lack of support to the hard working veteran full time wage earners. If the company is still in a situation, why are they hiring at all. It would seem to me that you would make due with who you have unless there is a major exodus with buyouts or product commitments that really require new employees. Admit the fact that 2nd tier wages cause veteran workers pay to remain stagnant. Don't get me wrong I support new hires but not at a much lower rate.

 

(5) The amount of money given to the top in just 4 or 5 short years while the bottom have taken concessions. It is almost as if the hourly take concessions in order to feed the pockets of the salaried.

 

(6) A Q and A with the leadership to ask the questions that should be answered as to why this and that was done.

 

(7) Most important, for the equity or sacrifice/equality of sacrifice agreement to be reached before the contract is signed. This way the U.A.W. members know exactly if the concessions or amount of money given up will be returned?? Why this is important, because it shows that the I.U.A.W. wants to be fair when it comes to its hourly workforce. That they have recognized that if the membership was willing to bend a little then, in order for the membership to be "made whole" later should not be an issue.

 

(8) REcognize that we understand that there are dynamics with the way that business seems to now run, the less the labor cost the more profit for them. Yes, we share in the profit of the companies profit but only because that profit is driven by the demand of good products and the reduction of labor cost is also a key to that profit.

 

(9) I think more than the money is the communication of leadership to their members, we have to do this, in order to achieve that.

[Spring]

(1) there has been an absolute breakdown of the members and their trust for their leadership. To re-open a contract while the I.U.A.W/company were asking for concessions and the members on the social networks and activists banning together to say no and then right in the faces of our hard working members, just days later giving back to the salaried was just not right, it is a mistrust that will never be erased period! Even if there is a equality of sacrifice agreement, our union bought this absolute dog and pony show from the company and stood by them and supported what they said that "they absolutely needed more concessions" from the hourly workforce after the contract was already re-opened. The leadership should explain this in full detail!!

 

(2) an amendment that stands by a democratic process of electing all appointees and leadership positions.

 

(3) Balance sheet of the Veba, which was told would be good for the next 80 or so years by Ron G. The Union took stock in order to pay for Veba, what amount was put into Veba??

 

(4) The lack of support to the hard working veteran full time wage earners. If the company is still in a situation, why are they hiring at all. It would seem to me that you would make due with who you have unless there is a major exodus with buyouts or product commitments that really require new employees. Admit the fact that 2nd tier wages cause veteran workers pay to remain stagnant. Don't get me wrong I support new hires but not at a much lower rate.

 

(5) The amount of money given to the top in just 4 or 5 short years while the bottom have taken concessions. It is almost as if the hourly take concessions in order to feed the pockets of the salaried.

 

(6) A Q and A with the leadership to ask the questions that should be answered as to why this and that was done.

 

(7) Most important, for the equity or sacrifice/equality of sacrifice agreement to be reached before the contract is signed. This way the U.A.W. members know exactly if the concessions or amount of money given up will be returned?? Why this is important, because it shows that the I.U.A.W. wants to be fair when it comes to its hourly workforce. That they have recognized that if the membership was willing to bend a little then, in order for the membership to be "made whole" later should not be an issue.

 

(8) REcognize that we understand that there are dynamics with the way that business seems to now run, the less the labor cost the more profit for them. Yes, we share in the profit of the companies profit but only because that profit is driven by the demand of good products and the reduction of labor cost is also a key to that profit.

 

(9) I think more than the money is the communication of leadership to their members, we have to do this, in order to achieve that.

 

 

That's the type of feedback we need to be sending to them! This is excellent!

[watching1]

What will voting no accomplish?

Bonus to ILO's and long term medicals

[1993Stang]

That's the type of feedback we need to be sending to them! This is excellent!

Thanks Spring, if I can add one more and I don't want to sound caddy but the membership should know if the I.U.A.W 's raises in this contract are in fact equal to that same sacrifice as the membership have/will make.

 

An apology from from Settles if he did in fact say that the people that turn the contract down are not intelligent. He needs to face facts that social media, google searches, union activist have kept the membership informed more than ever before : ) we now have access to Read the contract instead of walking into it blindly.

 

I know that social media and groups like those against us have used our rate or pay against us so why do the IUAW or others long before social networks talk about our salaries? You never here about the middle managers salaries, nurses salaries (under the union), or other salaried employees salaries discussed, only ours. There use to be a day that you didn't tell others what your salary was, it just was not proper to discuss it. So why as soon as the contract has been met the discussion of what the membership is receiving is front page news. Maybe there should be a confidentiality agreement not to discuss our wages to the media. It only hurts us, it only brings the U.A.W. membership into a bad light, media influences the outsiders looking in that we are not appreciative, we are not hard working, and we are not loyal.