Ford Seeks to Make Lincoln a Glamour Car Again

[jpd80]

The test everybody here dismissed as not 'accurate' or 'real life'?

 

I never said you would be able to do it with the current components "as is". I fully admitted there would be *some* engineering involved.

 

For Christ's sake...Ferrari just came out with a crank mounted front differential (because they say that the balance of the car would be thrown off has they used a traditional one) that engages in the blink of an eye and functions up to 120 MPH. Couple that achievement (as an example of where the industry is at) and all of the technology Lincoln is introducing, what I'm proposing wouldn't be that expensive nor time consuming. I would put money on it. It certainly would deserve a mule to test it out. If it sucks...either make it work (if feasible) or scrap it and return to the dull setup they have now.

 

I'm not asking Ford to reinvent the wheel...it was just a suggestion as to how to make Lincoln a brand worth talking about rather than laughing about. It would bring some much needed life into the brand and a lot of positive press.

By the time you do all of that, it may just be easier to to put the MKR body on a S/C 5.0 Falcon and give it the Territory's AWD.

The big question is spend money developing it and would people buy that over the CTS-V or even an MKS Ecoboost?

I have a feeling that Ford is satisfied with the AWD EB MKS and won't be switching horses any time soon.

Edited December 10, 2011 by jpd80

[Edstock]

I have a feeling that Ford is satisfied with the AWD EB MKS and won't be switching horses any time soon.

Considering that they will be pulling more power out of it in subsequent generations, and taking the weight out of future product, plus bringing out 8-speed transmissions, Ford probably is satisfied with its development so far.

[jpd80]

Considering that they will be pulling more power out of it in subsequent generations, and taking the weight out of future product, plus bringing out 8-speed transmissions, Ford probably is satisfied with its development so far.

 

Ed, my response was deliberately understated....

Edited December 10, 2011 by jpd80

[2b2]

...I have a feeling that Ford is satisfied with the AWD EB MKS and won't be switching horses any time soon.

imho

• satisfied ...for now

• 'soon': the decision has a deadline = when the CD4+ version of the Taurus gears up

[mettech]

Most customers of small and midsize sedans want FWD and have wanted that for years. In fact if we go way back in time it was actually Ford who held out the longest moving their small and midsize sedans to FWD platforms and it cost them dearly. Ford replaced the RWD Fairmont in 1984 with the FWD Tempo and the RWD midsize LTD with the Taurus in 1986. They didn't introduce a full size FWD car until the Five Hundred in 2005. So Ford knows all about RWD and over time held out the longest, but with little success. People were looking at the FWD competition and not buying the RWD Fords.

I don't see any reason to offer RWD on small, midsize or even full size sedans going forward. The packaging makes sense, the traction improvement makes sense, and the ease of assembly makes sense. I wouldn't touch a RWD only car with a 10 foot pole because you can add all the traction assist technologies you want, but in the end they just don't do well on bad roads. The only person I have ever seen that claimed RWD only was far superior to FWD or AWD on bad roads and in snow was an idiot that used to post here named P71.

 

FWD was a HUGE step forward in automobile design and for anything other then a BOF truck or a sports car RWD only makes no sense.

 

Most police don't want FWD cars or they prefer to have RWD vs FWD...

 

A pair of FWD tires can not... repeat.. can not be as efficient with overall driving dynamics as a RWD car. Physics does not favor FWD over RWD.

 

Snow and ice conditions... FWD might be slightly better than RWD...

 

:reading:

[jpd80]

Most police don't want FWD cars or they prefer to have RWD vs FWD...

Hence Ford's new interceptor vehicles are offered as AWD standard and FWD as a delete option.

 

Caprice PPV, the pin up boy for RWD squad car is selling poorly, I don't think it will survive...

Edited December 10, 2011 by jpd80

[papilgee4evaeva]

Hence Ford's new interceptor vehicles are offered as AWD standard and FWD as a delete option.

 

Caprice PPV, the pin up boy for RWD squad car is selling poorly, I don't think it will survive...

Charger's sold pretty well... but then again, it's not built for solely that purpose.

[BORG]

AWD>RWD

[jpd80]

AWD>RWD

And RWD AWD is far better than FWD AWD by allowing both nicer body proportions and better weight distribution...

Edited December 11, 2011 by jpd80

[FPV GTHO]

And RWD AWD is far better than FWD AWD by allowing both nicer body proportions and better weight distribution...

 

Unfortunately though RWD/AWD is a packaging nightmare compared to FWD/AWD outside of an SUV.

Edited December 11, 2011 by FPV GTHO

[Edstock]

compared to RWD/AWD outside of an SUV.

How about comparing to RWD/AWD inside of an SUV?

[FPV GTHO]

I had my original comment backwards, which is now edited

[Boss444]

By the time you do all of that, it may just be easier to to put the MKR body on a S/C 5.0 Falcon and give it the Territory's AWD.

 

I highly doubt that...but I would much rather see that platform come here. Just don't use the MKR body, that thing was hideous.

[tncruiser]

I highly doubt that...but I would much rather see that platform come here. Just don't use the MKR body, that thing was hideous.

is the MKR platform the same as used on my new explorer

inquiring minds wan to know

brianj

[RichardJensen]

The MKR was a concept that, while not Lincoln Sentinel level unfinished, was not driveable in any meaningful sense.

 

It was RWD, and roughly the same size as a Falcon (sold in Australia), but I don't know if they stretched Mustang bits, or used Falcon bits to build it.

 

The new Explorer is built on a variant of the same platform used for the MKS, MKT, Flex and Taurus.

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

The MKR was a concept that, while not Lincoln Sentinel level unfinished, was not driveable in any meaningful sense.

 

It was RWD, and roughly the same size as a Falcon (sold in Australia), but I don't know if they stretched Mustang bits, or used Falcon bits to build it.

 

The new Explorer is built on a variant of the same platform used for the MKS, MKT, Flex and Taurus.

 

 

I hope that Max Wolfe takes a little look at the Sentinel for inspiration. It looks more contemporary than some of the concepts which are ten or more years newer. A mostly clean sheet of paper is best for Max to start with, but the Sentinel had some nice proportions and a couple of good touches.

 

No matter how I think about the development and production efficiencies of FWD based layouts, I can't get past the fact that they are just not glamorous or at all desirable for a luxury car. The old GMC and new GM are not the sharpest knives in the product development drawer, but they figured this out with Cadillac. Three iterations of Chrysler ownership did the same with the 300. Computer wizardry and entertainment systems are not enough to glamorize cars built on the most pedestrian of all platforms, the FWD/V6. The Cord was maybe the only sort-of glamorous FWD car, but the company went belly-up with "sort-of glamorous".

[rmc523]

The MKR was a concept that, while not Lincoln Sentinel level unfinished, was not driveable in any meaningful sense.

 

It was RWD, and roughly the same size as a Falcon (sold in Australia), but I don't know if they stretched Mustang bits, or used Falcon bits to build it.

 

The new Explorer is built on a variant of the same platform used for the MKS, MKT, Flex and Taurus.

 

 

I seem to remember them using stretched Mustang bits for the MKR, but I could be wrong.

[Edstock]

Computer wizardry and entertainment systems are not enough to glamorize cars built on the most pedestrian of all platforms, the FWD/V6. The Cord was maybe the only sort-of glamorous FWD car, but the company went belly-up with "sort-of glamorous".

And that's why Lincolns should be AWD, because AWD is superior to 2WD. As to the V-6, all V-6's are not the same. But then, you knew that, didn't you?

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

And that's why Lincolns should be AWD, because AWD is superior to 2WD. As to the V-6, all V-6's are not the same. But then, you knew that, didn't you?

 

 

Sure, all V6's are not the same. They range in sophistication from the F1 wonders which made Senna and Prost famous to the truncated, pushrod 4.3 liter Chevy mills. All engines of this layout are naturally out-of-balance in all three planes, though. All have a firing order which produces an exhaust note which is pretty unappealing. Some reports have Mercedes going back to inline sixes.

 

Nearly, or all FWD/V6's have a compromised weight distribution. Adding AWD doesn't change this, or adequately polish the proverbial, uh, banana slug. Then there is torque steer.... I dream of something like the BMW X-Drive on one Lincoln model. Offering this on the Mustang and a mid-sized Ford four-door coupe (hardtop) would help with volume.

 

I don't think all Lincolns need to be RWD, but having a mid-size coupe and sedan, and a large sedan with RWD format would seem to lend credibility to the brand.

[akirby]

The old GMC and new GM are not the sharpest knives in the product development drawer, but they figured this out with Cadillac.

 

They did? The CTS is the only successful RWD Cadillac right now. The SRX is FWD/AWD and the next XTS will also be FWD/AWD.

 

Lexus' FWD models outsell the RWD models by a considerable margin.

 

350+ HP with AWD and electronic suspensions should suffice for the first generation of new Lincolns. Once the new brand is established and profitable they can go after the smaller volume more expensive models.

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

They did? The CTS is the only successful RWD Cadillac right now. The SRX is FWD/AWD and the next XTS will also be FWD/AWD.

 

Lexus' FWD models outsell the RWD models by a considerable margin.

 

350+ HP with AWD and electronic suspensions should suffice for the first generation of new Lincolns. Once the new brand is established and profitable they can go after the smaller volume more expensive models.

 

The CTS seems to be the main reason for Cadillac's resurgence. It made the whole brand relevant again. The upcoming ATS is also RWD. I think Lincoln needs a similar mix of RWD and FWD/AWD cars.

 

Ford is global and there is enough demand in Australia, the Southern US and parts of Europe and Asia to warrant the development of one modern RWD, flexible platform. This seems to be a good time to do this. Ford is profitable and gaining market share and some economies are on the upswing. The Mustang is about the only corporate product with any excitement, at least for males who grew up with a good relationship with their fathers (that will likely get some comments). All I can say is that I've noticed that most of us, who are close to a car-nut dad, aren't pimping our fiesta's or civics.

Edited December 12, 2011 by TBirdStangSkyliner

[akirby]

The CTS seems to be the main reason for Cadillac's resurgence. It made the whole brand relevant again. The upcoming ATS is also RWD. I think Lincoln needs a similar mix of RWD and FWD/AWD cars.

 

Ford is global and there is enough demand in Australia, the Southern US and parts of Europe and Asia to warrant the development of one modern RWD, flexible platform. This seems to be a good time to do this. Ford is profitable and gaining market share and some economies are on the upswing. The Mustang is about the only corporate product with any excitement, at least for males who grew up with a good relationship with their fathers (that will likely get some comments). All I can say is that I've noticed that most of us, who are close to a car-nut dad, aren't pimping our fiesta's or civics.

 

Nobody disagrees - in fact there was a Global RWD program underway when the financial crisis hit and it had to be cancelled. Right now it's a matter of where Ford spends the money and they have a lot better things to spend money on than a low volume dedicated RWD flagship.

 

Not every luxury car buyer cares about RWD or super high performance - and we haven't seen what Ford can do with a Lincoln performance model on the current platforms. I wouldn't assume that they can't build an exciting performer on existing platforms.

[RichardJensen]

The CTS seems to be the main reason for Cadillac's resurgence. It made the whole brand relevant again.

It hasn't though. Its buyers are marginally younger than Lincoln buyers, and while it certainly garners more press and internet-love than the MKZ, the decision to abandon Sigma and move it to Zeta suggest that it's not a paying proposition for GM.

[NLPRacing]

1323642376[/url]' post='750334']

The MKR was a concept that, while not Lincoln Sentinel level unfinished, was not driveable in any meaningful sense.

 

It was RWD, and roughly the same size as a Falcon (sold in Australia), but I don't know if they stretched Mustang bits, or used Falcon bits to build it.

 

The new Explorer is built on a variant of the same platform used for the MKS, MKT, Flex and Taurus.

 

Here's more info on the MKR concept car itself. It was a stretched Mustang chassis powered by the Cologne 4.0L SOHC V6 disguised as a "TwinForce", which later became EcoBoost.

[jpd80]

The CTS seems to be the main reason for Cadillac's resurgence. It made the whole brand relevant again. The upcoming ATS is also RWD. I think Lincoln needs a similar mix of RWD and FWD/AWD cars.

Then how do you explain the strong selling FWD/AWD SRX that consistently out sells CTS?

 

 

Ford does its Trucks and utilities extremely well and reaps the benefit for it which is why I don't understand Lincoln

prioritizing sedans ahead of getting versions of Mercury Mariner, Aviator and a refreshed Navigator with V6 EB.

To me, attracting potential Lincoln customers into SUVs and CUVs would be far easier and more lucrative to boot.

Edited December 12, 2011 by jpd80